http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Colum...rticleId=105024
i especially like the last three paragraphs
On the street, it's almost impossible to accurately assess whether a modification has aided performance. People often judge handling by how the car rides and acceleration by noise: If it's rough and loud, it's got to handle better and be quicker, they think. This is the "Bactine Theory": If the medicine hurts, it must be working. The Placebo Effect also comes into play: If you've just spent a couple of grand to improve something, you will believe it's working.
The only modification that consistently produces positive results are tires. A change from original-equipment rubber to expensive gumballs will reap guaranteed thrills. If you like your car but want more from it, step up to the best ultrahigh-performance tire.
My best advice is this: If you don't like your car and want to make it better, buy something else.
naz,Mar 21 2006, 10:42 PM Wrote:My best advice is this: If you don't like your car and want to make it better, buy something else.
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AGREE!
Quote:If they were quicker, it was often in an area that can't be used on the street.
FI... Sure its probably legal on the street, but if the insurance man finds out... :rolleyes:
naz,Mar 21 2006, 10:42 PM Wrote:My best advice is this: If you don't like your car and want to make it better, buy something else.
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I've even seen someone go as far as "Build" their car into something else, for example, one guy went as far as to convert his civic into a BMW...
and we've all seen the lambo/ferrari conversion kits out there. meh! not my style.
paolo,Mar 21 2006, 10:31 PM Wrote:naz,Mar 21 2006, 10:42 PM Wrote:My best advice is this: If you don't like your car and want to make it better, buy something else.
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I've even seen someone go as far as "Build" their car into something else, for example, one guy went as far as to convert his civic into a BMW...
and we've all seen the lambo/ferrari conversion kits out there. meh! not my style.
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ive seen that civic/m3 thing in person..
it is terrible :(
I'm not buying it.
Modifications are a great way to express one's self through their vehicle. The mods can be performance, asthetic, car audio, or any combination of those listed.
Just because some people can't mod cars doesn't mean everyone doesn't know what they're doing.
I totally disagree.
Theres some things from modding cars that I just like better. I like the feeling of less body roll & steering response with a proper suspension setup. When I bought the focus, I drove a stock one and 1 with eibach prokit springs. Night & day difference and the ride wasn't harsh at all compared to stock.
Another thing that will probably be on all my cars is a short throw shifter. Had one on my golf, CRX, and now the focus. I would have got one for my RX7 back in the day but couldnt find anything around. I just like the feeling of a short throw over a stock one....always have, always will.
I think the writer was thinking more along the lines of serious performance mods...sure a WRX with bigger sway bars, slammed springs, and s***ty tuning might be a ruff ride & unreliable, but you can do things to a WRX (just like any other car) without going overboard. If you do it right, your ride should be as comfortable as stock, and perform better than stock.
The whole "You gotta pay to play & Do it right the 1st time" really applies here. ;)
I sort of agree with what the author was saying....
sure, a properly modded car is a better performer, but how many modded cars are done properly?
not many IMO.
darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 12:17 PM Wrote:but how many modded cars are done properly?
not many IMO.
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I do agree to that!! ;)
Flofocus,Mar 22 2006, 12:15 PM Wrote:The whole "You gotta pay to play & Do it right the 1st time" really applies here. ;)
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My first mistake!
Im actually in Europe right now. I must tell you that modified cars here look amazing. The opels, Citroens and even VW polos, but I did see a Kia Van with a hoodscope. I also saw a STI rip up the back roads here in Poland, brave mother f***er cause some of the pot holes here would rip N/A suspension into shreds.
darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 11:17 AM Wrote:I sort of agree with what the author was saying....
sure, a properly modded car is a better performer, but how many modded cars are done properly?
not many IMO.
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True and modded for who; best for me or for you?? It's totally subjective.
Personally I agree, I can't ever see myself modding another car, I'll by an M3 or an RS8 Audi or the performance version from manufacture X whatever interests me.
I would rather buy something that a recognized manufacture believes is done correctly than what I can do.
Euro Ford Fan,Mar 22 2006, 04:57 PM Wrote:darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 11:17 AM Wrote:I sort of agree with what the author was saying....
sure, a properly modded car is a better performer, but how many modded cars are done properly?
not many IMO.
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True and modded for who; best for me or for you?? It's totally subjective.
Personally I agree, I can't ever see myself modding another car, I'll by an M3 or an RS8 Audi or the performance version from manufacture X whatever interests me.
I would rather buy something that a recognized manufacture believes is done correctly than what I can do.
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I think it's because were getting older and the time has passed to modify the hell out of an automobile. I know I won't do much to a car the next one I get. I'll probably eat my words on that, but my intentions are to buy it and drive it.
Flofocus,Mar 22 2006, 04:15 PM Wrote:I totally disagree.
Theres some things from modding cars that I just like better. I like the feeling of less body roll & steering response with a proper suspension setup. When I bought the focus, I drove a stock one and 1 with eibach prokit springs. Night & day difference and the ride wasn't harsh at all compared to stock.
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i bet the STi driver in that article thought he WAS doing it right though.. i highly doubt it was a cut spring on stock dampers, ebay no name brand sway bars etc on that STi. i am thinking it is mega bling tein 10 billion way adjustable full coilovers or prodrive 'straight off the WRC tarmac car' stuff
i really think for the vast majority of people (myself include) there is no way they will come close to knowing enough about suspension to improve on a OE setup of a car that was meant to be sporty from the factory
I pretty much agree with the article. For all the guys saying "Yeah, he's right, but I did MY car right."
How do you know? He's talking performance, not looks or feel.
Quote:Just because some people can't mod cars doesn't mean everyone doesn't know what they're doing.
Only 99% of modifiers don't know what they're doing.
Quote:Theres some things from modding cars that I just like better. I like the feeling of less body roll & steering response with a proper suspension setup. When I bought the focus, I drove a stock one and 1 with eibach prokit springs. Night & day difference and the ride wasn't harsh at all compared to stock.
So, you like the feel and look. That's fine. Cause I guarantee you it's not faster.
Quote:Another thing that will probably be on all my cars is a short throw shifter. Had one on my golf, CRX, and now the focus. I would have got one for my RX7 back in the day but couldnt find anything around. I just like the feeling of a short throw over a stock one....always have, always will.
Again, feel, good. Performance? No. You now have to reach further for your shifter, and you've lost mechanical advantage so it's harder to get in gear.
Quote:I think the writer was thinking more along the lines of serious performance mods...sure a WRX with bigger sway bars, slammed springs, and s***ty tuning might be a ruff ride & unreliable, but you can do things to a WRX (just like any other car) without going overboard. If you do it right, your ride should be as comfortable as stock, and perform better than stock.
There's only one thing you can do to accomplish that: Bilstein shocks. Anything else you do to the WRX is going to make it ride worse and/or handle worse. Bilstein dampers are magic, anything else is going to trade off one or the other or both.
Quote:Personally I agree, I can't ever see myself modding another car, I'll by an M3 or an RS8 Audi or the performance version from manufacture X whatever interests me.
I would rather buy something that a recognized manufacture believes is done correctly than what I can do.
This is largely the right idea. No way I could buy a cheap new car, and modify it to equal the performance of my WRX, for equal money, reliability, warranty, insurance, etc...
My Focus will pretty much match it, but it's less comfortable, unknown reliability, no warranty, probably no insurance, and it took a lot of time and effort to get there.
BUT, if I ball it up on track, I can get a new shell for <$5000.
Quote:i bet the STi driver in that article thought he WAS doing it right though.. i highly doubt it was a cut spring on stock dampers, ebay no name brand sway bars etc on that STi. i am thinking it is mega bling tein 10 billion way adjustable full coilovers or prodrive 'straight off the WRC tarmac car' stuff
i really think for the vast majority of people (myself include) there is no way they will come close to knowing enough about suspension to improve on a OE setup of a car that was meant to be sporty from the factory
If they had WRC dampers, probably would have done well. The problem is Tein, and other bulls*** like that.
That's the biggest problem that makes it hard to modify a car. There's too much bulls*** parts out there, and it's hard to cut through the clutter. Also, too many bulls*** manufacturers.
So why does SVT put lowering springs on their focus? To make it perform better, no? Or is that just looks and a waste of money of Fords part? Must be a waste of money heh. :o ;)
And if you would read my comment, yes, thats exactly why I like the short shifter, it feels better. I hated the fact that the focus shifter was 6 feet high. Hated it on all my cars. Dont know why you think you know what I like in my cars.
I know for a fact that the SHM suspension kit makes an obvious difference to the ZX3 in terms of handling, cornering stability and lateral grip. I know this by driving the car with the same tires on both the OEM and SHM suspensions on the same roads. The car rides flatter, is more stable in highspeed lane changes or in tight corners, and when the weather is mild, it has a tolerable ride quality to it. I think that this is an awesome setup because every peice was designed to work together, and work speciffically for the Focus. I say that because Multimatic designs/builds the suspensions on stock Foci in the UK and Germany.
Are there tradeoffs? Of course. The car rides like S*** in the winter because the nitorgen gas is so highly compressed when cold. The springs and bushings have even less compliance and a higher tensile when cold too. There are some days when it feels like I have NO suspension at all in the car, that is, until I take some corners quickly and feel re-justified in my purchase. In summer weather the harshness almost dissapears and the car rides a bit more taught than a stock ZX3...rides like an SVT.
I think that the adage "you gotta pay to play" reigns true most of the time. If I am gonna buy something, I am gonna pony up the dough to buy things that were custom engineered for my car speciffically. Like the MBRP exhaust, the AEM CAI, and the SHM suspension. Not buy some el-cheapo parts from ebay for the purposes of "modding" the car so I am not the only one with a stock car still.
In terms of other things, sometimes what someone calls a mod, should be called an "alteration" instead. I think with alterations or customizeation, people are expressing what they want from their cars, and use it as an extension of themselves. Take myself for example, I like having people ask me why I spend so much money on doing things to my car that make it look almost the same as a stock one in the firstplace. That's coz I like sleepers, and because I want a car that won't attract attention from the wrong crowds, and will attract attention from say, other foci owners that notice little changes compared to theirs, and then perk their intrest in what I've done. It'd be awesome to have a vehicle like some of you do...a car with FI a-la powerworks or vortech or roush, that doesn't look like anything other than "just a ford focus" to the Foci Haters out there.
Oh yeah, in refference to the bigger wheel info...yeah, already knew that, but I don't care. I know my car is slow, both in acceleration, and in top speed (governor still intact). I just want the pinball machine feel of the car at higher speeds, though initial steering might feel slower or heavier. Eventually this won't be my daily driver, so I won't care about such things all the time.
Anyways, I think everybody offered some valid info and opinions, and hope I have too...
You guys are just proving exactly what the article is saying.
First, Flo, I never attempted to tell you what you like. I just said a short shifter isn't a performance mod. They usually end up slowing shifts down, because you have to reach further, sometimes fishing around in the shift boot to find the stick depending on how low it is, and then wrench it back cause you haved no mechanical advantage left.
If you like that, hey, whatever floats your boat.
Second, SVT didn't actually lower the Focus. They put slightly lower springs on it, then put taller tires/wheels on. (The overall OD).
Why? Because if the actual height of the chassis changed, they'd have to re-crashtest the car, which they dind't want to do. The net result is the car LOOKS lower, but the CG is not actually lower. So they lost suspension travel, and camber gain curve, for looks.
As for the SHM kit... I dunno, never driven it. But again, you're proving the point. You're claiming it must be faster because it feels stiffer. That's exactly what the guy pointed out in the article. Yet you have absolutely ZERO objective data to back this up. No laptimes, no skidpad, or even slalom numbers.
Lastly, the fact that your car rides more harsh in the winter has nothing at all to do with the Nitrogen. Nitrogen does not measurably change in density in cold weather. If anything, the pressure inside the shock drops. The simple fact is your shock oil is thicker, and it's that much more noticable because it was that much firmer to start with.
This exact same things happens with stock dampers, you just don't notice as much. Also, the rubber suspension bushings get harder, and that hurts too.