Oscar The Grouch,Mar 22 2006, 11:12 AM Wrote:NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 11:57 AM Wrote:And I guess straight people should have their own loudmouthed advocacy groups and stage parades?
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I'd like to start up the
Males
On
Females
Organization
also known as MOFO. :lol:
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I expect my membership card delievered within the week. :D
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 11:18 AM Wrote:darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 11:08 AM Wrote:I always joke around that we need more advocacy groups and parades for straight white males in the 25-35 year range... but the fact is, we don't need advocacy groups to stand up for our rights.
To say that you don't want to support a group that doesn't support your lifestyle choices is a very obvious sign of intolerance and bigotry. I'm not even going to candy coat it for you. I don't know why you're so intolerant of people who make different choices than yourself.
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Maybe I wasn't quite clear. I'll attempt to illustrate it a little better for you.
I have gay family members. While I don't "enjoy" the life they lead, I still care for them the same as any other family member. I'll defend them the same as any other family member.
However, there are certain fundamental things about said practices that I do not believe are natural, and as such I don't believe that certain long-standing definitions that are held by a vast majority of the world's population should be changed willy-nilly because a relative handful say so.
So, if I choose not to support a company because they support groups that go against my beliefs in life, that's my personal right... my right to choose who I do and don't patronize with my hard-earned cash.
Call me whatver makes you feel better, but you have no right to tell me that I can't choose. Just as I would never tell anyone who is gay or lesbian who they can or can't be with or what they can or can't do with their life, I don't see what gives you the right to tell me I can't choose not to support Ford.
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true, it's your choice to support or not support companies as you deem fit. But seriously, there are far worse things to boycott a company for than something as trivial as this.
Considering how broad a definition marriage has (outside the minority christian bible thumper crowd) globally, gay marriage is neither willy nilly, nor problematic. I think it's a problem because people make it a problem.
What do I care who's married to who, I'll still be the 5th wheel at couple's dinner night.
darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 12:34 PM Wrote:Considering how broad a definition marriage has (outside the minority christian bible thumper crowd) globally, gay marriage is neither willy nilly, nor problematic. I think it's a problem because people make it a problem.
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Hmmm. So later we will see poligamists come into the foray, those who want incestuous marriages, and other weird combinations.
Gotta think, how will kids interpret this? Will they consider this normal? What is normal?
I could see the war that would brew with poligamists and feminist groups. :ph34r:
Oscar The Grouch,Mar 22 2006, 11:49 AM Wrote:Hmmm. So later we will see poligamists come into the foray, those who want incestuous marriages, and other weird combinations.
Gotta think, how will kids interpret this? Will they consider this normal? What is normal?
I could see the war that would brew with poligamists and feminist groups. :ph34r:
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polygamists already exist, incestuous marriages already exist, and marriage to animals exists already. Gay marriage is not a slippery slope to these... it's acceptance of a lifestyle that is harmless to everyone else.
Polygamy and incest and animals are a totally different story. Polygamy and incest lead (which research has proven) to very shallow gene pools and increased genetic defects in offspring. They are outlawed for a very specific reason.. it's harmful to those who don't make the choice (the children/offspring).
Gay marriages are not harmful to the genetic makeup of the offspring...well, not that I know of, but if you can illustrate how it's harmful, please speak up. Gay marriages is held back strictly by those who think marriages are strictly man and woman, but to this point, there is not any compelling reason to ban gay marriages.
Kids get teased all the time. I got teased because my parents were fat, so I guess they shouldn't have gotten married and have kids because they weren't "normal"? If I was transplanted from a straight marriage into a gay marriage, I might be a little confused, but you have to realize that people are used to the way they are raised. A kid raised by gay parents wouldn't know any different.
Probably also the reason 'straight marriage' proponents are so uppity, because they weren't raised that way.... but things change, always have changed, and we as society adapt. If there's a compelling reason why it's damaging, I'm all for banning it, but as far as gay marriages go, the harm isn't there.
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 10:40 AM Wrote:I don't see many "gay" people driving the WRX or Impreza RS.[right][snapback]176307[/snapback][/right]
Not every gay person has a "Hey, I'm gay" bumper sticker on ther car. I nail my wife 20+ times a month (can't complain after 10 years of marriage) and I don't have a sign on my front lawn "Hetero man lives here". Sex is only "part" of a relationship, as it is with gays. Not everyone advertises. For all you know half your WRX buddies are pushing in each other's stools when you're not around. It's not like they're on a recruitment drive.
Quote:I simply refuse to support a business that actively promotes a lifestyle that differs from my own.
Do you have children? If not, will you boycott every family restaurant? Or single's bars? There are many "lifestyles" other than your own.
The reality is, it's not because of differring lifestyle, it's because you're prejudiced. You feel that gays should be treated as second-class citizens.
It doesn't matter to me what two adults do in their own bedroom. I have four children from two different women; a guy liking another guy isn't going to make me any less of a man. I don't know why so many people feel threatened.
Ford has advertisements in my Maxim magazines. That's a men's magazine. How would you feel if a woman's group like NOW (National Organization for Women) decided to boycott Ford because of that? You'd probably think that was silly.
~Come to think of it, I can't recall a Subaru advertisement in Maxim. Hmmmmmm...:lol:~
OAC_Sparky,Mar 22 2006, 12:12 PM Wrote:Quote:I simply refuse to support a business that actively promotes a lifestyle that differs from my own.
Do you have children? If not, will you boycott every family restaurant? Or single's bars? There are many "lifestyles" other than your own.
The reality is, it's not because of differring lifestyle, it's because you're prejudiced. You feel that gays should be treated as second-class citizens.
It doesn't matter to me what two adults do in their own bedroom. I have four children from two different women; a guy liking another guy isn't going to make me any less of a man. I don't know why so many people feel threatened.
Ford has advertisements in my Maxim magazines. That's a men's magazine. How would you feel if a woman's group like NOW (National Organization for Women) decided to boycott Ford because of that? You'd probably think that was silly.
~Come to think of it, I can't recall a Subaru advertisement in Maxim. Hmmmmmm...:lol:~
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I was trying to comment on that earlier, but couldn't come up with the right words, well said!
OAC_Sparky,Mar 22 2006, 12:12 PM Wrote:NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 10:40 AM Wrote:I don't see many "gay" people driving the WRX or Impreza RS.[right][snapback]176307[/snapback][/right]
Not every gay person has a "Hey, I'm gay" bumper sticker on ther car. I nail my wife 20+ times a month (can't complain after 10 years of marriage) and I don't have a sign on my front lawn "Hetero man lives here". Sex is only "part" of a relationship, as it is with gays. Not everyone advertises. For all you know half your WRX buddies are pushing in each other's stools when you're not around. It's not like they're on a recruitment drive.
Quote:I simply refuse to support a business that actively promotes a lifestyle that differs from my own.
Do you have children? If not, will you boycott every family restaurant? Or single's bars? There are many "lifestyles" other than your own.
The reality is, it's not because of differring lifestyle, it's because you're prejudiced. You feel that gays should be treated as second-class citizens.
It doesn't matter to me what two adults do in their own bedroom. I have four children from two different women; a guy liking another guy isn't going to make me any less of a man. I don't know why so many people feel threatened.
Ford has advertisements in my Maxim magazines. That's a men's magazine. How would you feel if a woman's group like NOW (National Organization for Women) decided to boycott Ford because of that? You'd probably think that was silly.
~Come to think of it, I can't recall a Subaru advertisement in Maxim. Hmmmmmm...:lol:~
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A lot of you here have a very well-developed selective reading skill.
If you haven't figured out by now that I love my openly-gay brother-in-law as much as my own brothers and can't understand the rest, you're quite far removed from the ability to tell me what I feel and don't feel.
That's all I'm going to say because I don't feel like another week of ban-stick beatings.
But you don;t support his parades??? I don;t understand.
What difference is a gay parade to a Focus convoy / meet?
You support those don;t you???
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 12:48 PM Wrote:If you haven't figured out by now that I love my openly-gay brother-in-law as much as my own brothers and can't understand the rest, you're quite far removed from the ability to tell me what I feel and don't feel.[right][snapback]176347[/snapback][/right]
If your brother-in-law found another man with whom he wanted to monogamously share the rest of his life with (ie. gay marriage), would you be as happy for him as you would any of your brothers getting married? Because if not, the love IS different.
Old public service announcement:
A boy comes home and tells his Grandpa that his friend Billy called him 'prejudiced.'
Grandpa asks, "Are you?"
The boy says, "I don't know what it means."
Grandpa asks, "Well, who is Billy?" to which the boy replies, "He's my Jewish friend."
Grandpa concludes, "Then you are prejudiced, because you think of Billy as your Jewish friend, and not just your friend."
Once you start to set people apart because they are different, you are diminishing them as human beings. If you admonish Ford because they choose to put Jag and Range Rover ads in gay magazines, you don't feel that gays deserve equal treatment.
Gay marriage, just like hetero marriage, is supposed to be about expression of love -- even moreso than hetero marriage because the financial benefit (or incentives) to a gay marriage is less than that of a hetero one.
Quote:That's all I'm going to say because I don't feel like another week of ban-stick beatings.
I don't see why you'd be afraid of that if you keep the conversation/debate mature. We're not calling (at least I'm not) each other names.
You're telling me what I feel. Don't presume to know me, just stick to the topic at-hand. People putting words in my mouth and getting presumptious tend to tick me off.
And yes, I've already met his boyfriend and they're quite happy together. I'm happy that they're happy. They also don't become explicit in front of us, as they respect our views and positions. In return, I don't grope his sister's ass in front of him for the dual reasons of he won't like it and DUH, it's his sister.
Anthony - I can't stand any display like that because they think they won't get any respect or equality without it. Every time I see one of those damn parades, they set themselves back another 5 years in my opinion. It's possible to be progressive and responsible while adhering to your own beliefs without being lurid and obnoxious. We call that "being a part of society".
So instead of being an attention whore yourself and trying to piss me off, why not contribute something meaningful to the discussion?
A Focus cruise is a meeting of car owners and like-minded enthusiasts who get together to swap stories, sell parts and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
The annual Toronto Pride parade is a disgusting display of debauchery that has grown men and women damn near nude (for some, not all) and wiggling parts of their bodies at the general public that ought to be covered up. Heck, the CHIN swimsuit contests cover more than half the crap I've seen over the years. And if you say anything to the negative about their behaviour, you're a bigot and you're discriminating against them. Screw that.
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 01:29 PM Wrote:A Focus cruise is a meeting of car owners and like-minded enthusiasts who get together to swap stories, sell parts and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
that's pretty much a description of the gay pride parade actually.
The pride parade is hardly what people make it out to be in the news snippets and whatnot. The first time I ever stumbled on it, I honestly had no idea what it was. I thought it was this 'caribana' that everyone was talking about.
Then I read the sign on a float.. the gay men's hockey association... that's about the point I started to notice men holding hands.
But how is that any worse than you and your wife holding hands? I'm all for public displays of affection, I'm not going to hump the girl on the street corner, but I'm not going to hermetically seal myself off from her in public. And neither should gays.
Caribanna, the jazz festival, st patrick's day, the MOLSON INDY..... I've seen more debauch displays in public during these festivities than I have at the pride parade.
They're out there celebrating something that has a meaning for them. It's like any of the numerous goth/jazz/sporting festivals that take place... you'll find trouble if you're looking for it, but to a casual observer, it's no different than going to a night club.
It's like people who protest against Hooters. like seriously, have they been to hooters lately? the women are hotter and wear infinitely less at Moxie's..
and have better food.
darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 02:51 PM Wrote:that's pretty much a description of the gay pride parade actually.
It's like people who protest against Hooters. like seriously, have they been to hooters lately? the women are hotter and wear infinitely less at Moxie's.. and have better food.
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#1. So you're saying that Focus cruises are gay?
#2. With our luck, the girls at Hooters and Moxie's are probably lesbians. Although we can hope they are at least bi. ;)
edit: I've never really heard of Moxies. Anyone got pics? ;)
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 01:29 PM Wrote:You're telling me what I feel. Don't presume to know me, just stick to the topic at-hand. People putting words in my mouth and getting presumptious tend to tick me off.
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You're right, I don't know you, that is why I'm asking.
I AM sticking to the topic at hand.
The AFA's boycott has to do with target advertising in magazines that gays tend to read. Period.
Ford would advertise Lincoln Towncars in "Seniors Today"
It would advertise Mustangs and trucks in "Maxim"
It would advertise Miatas and Fusions in "Cosmopolitan"
If marketing studies showed that the gay demographic are drawn to Range Rovers, Jags, what have you, and advertised in a gay magazine, what is the difference? They are advertising to SELL CARS.
Instead you post:
Quote:"If that's true... it's yet another reason to get a Subaru next time around. "
Quote:"I simply refuse to support a business that actively promotes a lifestyle that differs from my own."
So
PLEASE tell me what you mean by this, because it sounds conflicted. Unless you're just blowing off on Ford (again), you would only post these statements if you support the boycott. And to support the boycott.....well...I guess that goes without saying.
Or what am I missing?
darkpuppet,Mar 22 2006, 01:51 PM Wrote:NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 01:29 PM Wrote:A Focus cruise is a meeting of car owners and like-minded enthusiasts who get together to swap stories, sell parts and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
They're out there celebrating something that has a meaning for them. It's like any of the numerous goth/jazz/sporting festivals that take place... you'll find trouble if you're looking for it, but to a casual observer, it's no different than going to a night club.
It's like people who protest against Hooters. like seriously, have they been to hooters lately? the women are hotter and wear infinitely less at Moxie's.. and have better food.
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What are they celebrating? What could they possibly celebrate that anyone else has no need to draw attention to?
Do we have a "straight couples" parade? What about a "single, lonely guys" parade? How about "I only made it to 2nd base" parade? It's because that while these things go on in life, and happen to everyone (that it actually applies to), we don't need to throw it a party. But that's what they do... the obnoxious ones parade up and down, screaming loudly how much they love being gay. Good for them. It doesn't mean that their actions will change the minds of the overwhelming majority of the world's population.
They crave the media attention so that they can draw more people in to believing that it's right when ultimately, biologically, it's not.
Sparky - obviously, this post has created more FUD than it was intended to. I refuse to support anything that aggressively attacks the institution of marriage to the best of my knowledge. I don't care if Ford does it, Subaru, whoever. Families can be created a number of ways, but kids are created in only one natural way - with a mother and a father. Being a father yourself, I don't see why you're so open to the destruction of the institution of marriage.
So, really, I was supporting the institution of marriage without really caring about who was doing the attacking. If Ford wasn't supporting their movement, then good for them.
Advertising is business. I don't care who makes money off of what, nor would I limit the ability of someone of an alternate sexual persuasion to make money. My convictions are very clear - do as you will, but leave marriage alone.
I didn't have time to RTFA... what I read in the thread is that Ford was giving cash to special interest groups that are actively attacking the definition of marriage. I don't support said re-definition, hence I replied to the negative. I also didn't sign the petition.
Does that quench everyone's thirst for knowledge?
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 02:29 PM Wrote:A Focus cruise is a meeting of car owners and like-minded enthusiasts who get together to swap stories, sell parts and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
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A Gay pride event is a meeting of gay men and women and like-minded gays who get together to swap stories, network and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
Hmmm. sounds the same to me. :rolleyes:
Adam you're busted again man.
That does it. I'm gonna suggest to city council to have a Pron Parade! It'll be the most watched parade on television!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 02:09 PM Wrote:What are they celebrating? What could they possibly celebrate that anyone else has no need to draw attention to?
Do we have a "straight couples" parade? What about a "single, lonely guys" parade? How about "I only made it to 2nd base" parade? It's because that while these things go on in life, and happen to everyone (that it actually applies to), we don't need to throw it a party. But that's what they do... the obnoxious ones parade up and down, screaming loudly how much they love being gay. Good for them. It doesn't mean that their actions will change the minds of the overwhelming majority of the world's population.
a ) why bother having parades for the olympics, st patrick's day, christmas, world youth day, or for any other event that could just as easily be 'celebrated' inside your home? It just seems you're upset at the gay parade, not the fact that people are celebrating something that doesn't need to be celebrated. I've met more obnoxious people at the Taste of the Danforth than at the pride parade. You're basing your judgement on a couple of news clippings and youre prejudice against that lifestyle.
b ) The majority of the world doesn't really care. The majority in Canada, Denmark and a few other countries voted for it. Your majority is based on an American consensus.
Quote:They crave the media attention so that they can draw more people in to believing that it's right when ultimately, biologically, it's not.
and whats wrong with it? we let fat people live, we let downsyndrome kids to get married, we let dwarves marry each other... and all of these groups greatly outnumber gays and lesbians, yet we don't intefere with their happiness. Should we apply your draconian measures of biological appropriateness against these people as well?
Quote:Sparky - obviously, this post has created more FUD than it was intended to. I refuse to support anything that aggressively attacks the institution of marriage to the best of my knowledge. I don't care if Ford does it, Subaru, whoever. Families can be created a number of ways, but kids are created in only one natural way - with a mother and a father. Being a father yourself, I don't see why you're so open to the destruction of the institution of marriage.
well, so far you have a right wing christian organization telling you it's bad.. State some actual research that shows gay marriage ruins the institution of marriage.
Do you own any DVDs? any with a celebrity in it? how many times has that celebrity been married? How many kids idolize these celebrities? How many children are growing up in a society that believes marriages are disposable convenience items?
Now how many gay marriages have there been? How many kids are aware of this?
chances are you are, by your choices as a consumer, directly encouraging those people who are doing the most damage to the institution of marriage.
And they even get their own award shows, parades, AND sidewalk memorials!
Quote:So, really, I was supporting the institution of marriage without really caring about who was doing the attacking. If Ford wasn't supporting their movement, then good for them.
Advertising is business. I don't care who makes money off of what, nor would I limit the ability of someone of an alternate sexual persuasion to make money. My convictions are very clear - do as you will, but leave marriage alone.
I didn't have time to RTFA... what I read in the thread is that Ford was giving cash to special interest groups that are actively attacking the definition of marriage. I don't support said re-definition, hence I replied to the negative. I also didn't sign the petition.
Does that quench everyone's thirst for knowledge?
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so you based your decision on a couple biased news clippins and your own fear of what these groups are doing to marriage?
Oscar The Grouch,Mar 22 2006, 02:25 PM Wrote:That does it. I'm gonna suggest to city council to have a Pron Parade! It'll be the most watched parade on television!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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there's porn on TV, and the big sex convention... but trust me, you'd have more fun as a single guy if you go to the wine and cheese show, or the beer and food festival.
ANTHONYD,Mar 22 2006, 02:22 PM Wrote:NOS2Go4Me,Mar 22 2006, 02:29 PM Wrote:A Focus cruise is a meeting of car owners and like-minded enthusiasts who get together to swap stories, sell parts and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
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A Gay pride event is a meeting of gay men and women and like-minded gays who get together to swap stories, network and have a good time while generally fostering a sense of community.
Hmmm. sounds the same to me. :rolleyes:
Adam you're busted again man.
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Whatever man. Unfortunately I got to see one, many years ago, whilst downtown and horribly unaware. It took me FOREVER to detour around it. What I saw was decidedly not tame nor proper.
I'm busted cause you say so. Right. Perhaps once you're actually married you'll understand the affront it represents.
I'm done with you. Actually I'm done with you and Puppet both.
Because I'm a vocal defender of the institution of marriage AS IT STANDS TODAY, I'm under microscopic levels of scrutiny from 2 guys that aren't even married and one guy that can't read the very words I write. Hell, the guy that started this thread isn't even mentioned! HOLY s***!
Fer f*** SAKES. Imagine that, someone being entirely un-PC as they enjoy things JUST THE WAY THEY ARE.
The next time your tax dollars go toward something you don't happen to endorse nor advocate, remember this thread. Because you're all progressively-minded individuals, you can fund the cause and minority du jour. You'll all enjoy it immensely, I'm sure.
If you're all done provoking me and trying to fan the flames, you might try and bring something interesting to the table. For instance:
If it was natural, why can't gays procreate? How can a species that is expected to survive carry on if a chunk of its populace is slightly confused in that regard? Biologically, technically, that IS correct.
If it IS natural, and just not as widespread, then what about other "known" evils, such as pedophelia and polygamy? What makes it any better than that? So a guy can have 3 wives and be completely faithful to all 3 and that makes it alright? I won't even go there (any further) about the kiddies. That's just wrong. But a very small sliver of humanity thinks it's right. Will we make that the next "right" thing?