I just had to vent after reading up on news on the future of the Ford Focus. I just cannot understand why Ford must always shun North America from some of the best cars to grace european/asian soil? Is this how they intend to stay competitive?
After driving the SVT Focus for a little over a year now, I have come to the conclusion that this is an amazing car to drive. It has the power to "go," and I'm always ready and willing to whip it around a turn until I hear the rubber telling me to take it easy. Even when I travel and occasionally find myself renting a regular Focus, it is very nimble and I can still whip it around each corner, although without as much gusto. Although I am a die-hard Ford fanatic, I have had my near calls of redemption, thinking about how much better Honda and Toyota build their cars and how much nicer and refined most asian/european counterparts build and design their vehicles. Yet, I always stick to my guns and not let my friends (who are all asian import sport compact owners) influence me..
Moving forward to tommorow, North America will not see the new 2006 Focus ST, nor will we ever see the 2007+ Focus RS.. To add insult to injury, we already lost the SVT focus for NA shores and the re-design for 2007 in NA for the Focus line will re-use the C170 platform; Yes, the same platform we are all familiar with and with all of its glorious 1000+ recalls.
With more and more companies jumping into the Sport Compact category, if Ford decides to "take it easy..." they will lose more and more of the market segment. There are so many players today, the Neon and the SRT-4 versions, the Cobalt and the SS versions, Nissan's new sport compact concept, and not to mention the performance versions (K20s Type R) of the Civic and RSX, which to be fair is not available in North America either. But the minute they do, watch out....
I'll always be a Mustang nut, but what I wouldn't do to have a 2007+ 300hp AWD SVT/RS focus or even a 2006 215hp turbo ST! Well, for us North American dwellers.. keep dreaming..
I think Ford's decision to leave the C1 platform and all of its derivatives in Europe is a decision which will haunt them in the next few years. Just when everyone else is heating up, Ford's taking a step back?
Anyhow.. just venting..
Ford of America is ran by a bunch of retards I think. There going to get hit hard in the sport compact scene. They do have the new turbo 2.3l mk2 in euro in the making but will something like that ever make it here???? Ford simply has to make a focus with around 200 or more whp to stay alive and at least keep up with Dodge or GM.
Who knows thow, Maybe Ford has something planned? If they plan on replying on there Mustang and shitty trucks and SUVS to keep them alive they have another guess coming. Sport compact is here to stay and its just going to grow.
I dunno the most part that pisses me off the most is by buddies SRT-4 runs 13.5 on a stock SRT-4 with a Mopar stage 2 upgrade. Its all origional dodge eqipment and doesnt lose any warranty. Now if Ford could do something like that... I WISH!!!
the mazda3 uses the platform that the euro focus uses right? so there you go, you can still have the latest gen focus in north america
personally, i think fomoco has more problems than just a lack of competitive 'sport compact' vehicle
i mean.. getting your bonds cut to junk or near junk status is a pretty clear signal that the company is having some serious problems remaining competitive
http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/05/markets/bo...tos_bonds.reut/
personally, i think ford's strategy has some good points.. let the focus be the rental fleet special, let the closely related mazda 3 to be the enthusiast and upmarket model. doesn't make much sense to have the focus and mazda3 both use the latest platform and compete against each other..
EDIT: my opinion.. ford is toast in north america.. i thought i read somewhere that ford has only 1 car line that sold more units than the 3series.. its pretty sad when a mainstream car maker can't sell more than a niche/luxury car maker.. so ford is pretty much not a player in cars..its only a matter of time until euro and japanese brands blow them out of the water in trucks, SUVs and vans
I must admit I dont plan on buying another Ford or Focus after this Focus. I love my Focus and have yet to have any serious problems or recalls. I had some things fixed but its just normal where and tear stuff witch Ford replaced for free.
Im also still young and want to explore more cars then to just stick with a Focus. I am going to keep the Focus and just keep modding it till there is nothing else left to do and they only thing to do is engine swap or rebuild the engine in 4 years. If I do end up falling for the 2.3L engines I would go for a Mazda3 witch I really like.
I doubt I will ever do a new car again to. My most likely future cars would be a 4th gen GTI, Protoge5 / Mazda 3.
The Focus is a great car but we all have to admit Ford of America isnt doing a good job (marketing wise) to keep it alive or making it better.
I'm not a Ford fan by any means, however this company makes some of the stupidest decisions I've seen. I have never been impressed by the SVT since the day it rolled out. It's not boosted, has a slightly modded airflow system, lowered a slight bit and some fancy seats. Sorry Ford, it hardly makes itself out to be a perfomance car. For the money, drive a rustang.... Maybe that was their plan all along who knows???
I mean looka t ontario for instance... the 15-20 guys on this board are probabaly 90% of the modded focus' out there! :lol:
But look at the Focus models available over seas. All performance and stylish to boot.
Ford will NEVER be competitor in this market. They were close with the SVT......But they cam up way short.
It;s like Ford has a monkey making the decisions in the compact car division.
The thing is that Ford doesn't concern themselves with the Sport compact "scene" Ford is a numbers company plain and simple. They sell plenty of Focuses. That's all you see. If they lose 5-10,000 sales to SRT-4 etc they don't care. They sell 50 billion Focuses to people looking for a cheap car. That's what Focus is in North America, It's a cheap entry level car. Why spend billions of dollars retooling factories to build a new Focus when the old one still sells all they can build.
Well, I guess most people share my point of view.. There are so many options in the market and Ford is definitely losing grasp of the market. However, this is only true is North America. European sales have actually helped overall growth and will continue to do so. The Ford Focus is Europe is seen as an entry level luxury car which differentiates itself from its place in North America as an entry level economy car. There are quite a bit of "goodies" over the ocean when it comes to the Focus.. In fact, even the new Caterham CSR 260 uses a naturally aspirated 2.3 Ford Duratec pushing a good 260hp thanks to another European only name: "Cosworth". A ZX3 w/ a 6 speed running this type of motor will instantly drop into the high 13s. B)
I hope Ford really revives itself in North America. Perhaps they don't see itself in such a predicament with so many other lines and brands to channel in revenue. I hope in the next year or so they make some real revelations to keep the Ford blood pumping through those who are still partial to them.. If there are any of us left.. :rolleyes:
bluetoy,May 23 2005, 12:34 PM Wrote:The thing is that Ford doesn't concern themselves with the Sport compact "scene" Ford is a numbers company plain and simple. They sell plenty of Focuses. That's all you see. If they lose 5-10,000 sales to SRT-4 etc they don't care. They sell 50 billion Focuses to people looking for a cheap car. That's what Focus is in North America, It's a cheap entry level car. Why spend billions of dollars retooling factories to build a new Focus when the old one still sells all they can build.
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It isn't just about the numbers. Even if we ignore all of the performance variations, we must still look at the current platform and all of its inherent problems. If the C1 can remedy this and upgrade the reliability and refinement of the line, then they have more firepower to sway customers through the door. With import vehicles being more and more refined and built light years better, it will be easy to forecast what will happen. If you stay in the same place, you will get trampled by others. Haven't they learnt the hard way after offshore competitors have indirectly caused where they sit today?
I don't think Ford is the one who's not paying attention.
We're the ones not paying attention!!!
the focus in north america is an entry level car, it's the goddamn echo.. it barely fits a niche market. The best selling car in the world, is not necessarily the money maker in north america.
The fact remains that Ford makes most of it's money from SUVs and Trucks, and the mustang. The focus won't be remembered in North America for it's good qualities, only that it came to market with so many recalls, and like the pinto, I'm sure ford NA is quite happy to just let it go and forget about it.
We need to also remember that ford in europe is a premium brand. We'd NEVER pay for a focus what the europeans are paying for theirs, that's for sure. The two markets can't be compared. If you want the new chasis, time to buy an NA premium brand like the Mazda 3 or Volvo s40. The chasis lives on in NA, just not the car per se.
i thought the SVT engine was a good compromise... it's relatively reliable, cheap to make... it's more a sport compact paradigm than the SRT-4 which sells merely for horsepower alone.
But maybe that's where ford falls short in it's vision. People don't want a balanced car, they want something they can brag about...maybe when they start building to that paradigm, they'll see more success in the sport compact scene in north america.
But then again, if you want a car you can just plain brag about, the cost of your SRT-4 will get you a mustang... there's still no replacement for displacement :P
I'll probably get shot for this because it is exactly the opposite of tuning a car but...
I'd like to see a hybrid focus...something that gets you know 3 or 4 L/100Km...
I'm an environmentalist who has a long commute...it'd be the best of both worlds to me.
That being said for the weekend I'd love something pushing the HP boundaries. It is kind of weird to me that they have all these btchin focus models in europe and nothing here...
I liked the comment about all the modded Focuses hanging out here, and we'd hardly fill a hockey roster. Now that's two things that have gone away - Ford Focus performance and hockey! ZING!
Now to the point. I've always said I'd import a S13 Ks or S14 Ks since I saw them for the first time. There's nothing quite like a CA18DET at full song with a real exhaust and intake. The same goes for any force-fed Euro Focus. If I could get one over here, legally, and be able to drive it daily - I would. Without hesitation.
I agree that we're not faced with an automobile manufacturer that has our best interests in mind. Therefore, I suggest we all move to the UK or somewhere else in the EU and take up modding current Focuses there :D
because the 20 people that are interested in a performance focus would buy the european focus doesn't mean that Ford can make money at selling them in NA.
that's the problem.. what 20 people in Canada want, isn't good for ford's bottom line. SUVs provide more profit margin than the focus ever would... they keep the focus around to get people buying fords. Those focus owners are all potential future SUV buyers.
I'd prefer that ford keep the current chasis that they've nearly worked all the bugs out of than to switch over to the european chasis and end up giving us another 4 years of recalls because mexicans can't build cars.
in the end, once again, if you want the latest and greatest of ford europe, get the mazda 3 or vovlo s40.
If I can help it, my next car won't be a 'sport compact'... so the point is sort of moot for me..
I can't understand why after this discussion has been hammer out so many times, it's still a point people take to heart. The Focus is not a performance vehicle! Yes, there are those that have pushed the envelope and gotten it moving at a relatively respectable speed, but 99/100 Focus Owners are in one because a) they've had a Ford before and liked it or B) it was cheap and a little bigger than an Echo. Performance is, and will always be for the elite. Elitists don't make up enough of the market for the manufacturers to care. Not many people would be willing to spend $25k on a faster Focus pushing out 170 hp when instead they could spend about the same and get themselves a Subbie Impreza producing 167 with AWD. Let's face it, if you're in it for the handling, or the way the car can take a corner, then the ZX3's and low level sedans are good for what they are...cheap. Higher than that? Get a car that has some resale. Would I have ever bought an SVT? Not on your life. If I had the money to spend at the time, I woulda seated myself in a Protege5 or an Impreza.. The Focus will be my winter beater when I get my next car cause I won't get anything for it were I to sell it. Would I ever buy another Ford? Not unless it's a Mustang or an F150...
Again, all are valid comments.. and the fact remains to be seen. Ford doesn't have to cater to its performance enthusiasts.. as we a small minority compared to what actually makes a profit at Ford. What really gets me is that Ford is not making much of an effort to reclaim what it lost in the last 12 years.. :( a few reviews even make that a point: SVT is probably the only thing Ford has going for it in the last 12 years. :(
Ford primarily finds profit (I'm assuming.. which I shouldn't, but for the matter of the argument) in its SUVs and trucks. With gas prices rising and more and more import influence (Honda jumping into the fray with its light duty truck) trying to fight for a piece of the pie, It's just a matter of time before even those profit centers start to erode. This isn't speculation, it is already happening.. It is a scary thought that mainly because of the success of the 05 Mustang that helped Ford boost its car sales. If they didn't have the Mustang... ::shudder::
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...utos-136744.htm
It is just one example, try to find some news about Ford NA Q1 2005 that is positive.
The performance divisions do help promote the product, at least make the public aware that the manufacturer actually cares about its models! If this were not the case then Dodge would not hot rod its lowly Neon and GM would not supercharge its Cavalier replacement.
I've still got a standing invite to go and tool around in an Ion Redline for the afternoon from our Saturn dealer. I'd do it just to see what it does.
But yeah, as Steve mentioned, my next car won't be a "sport compact" either.
Still, this has to be some of the best "bang for your buck" that I've had in some time. It's definitely not the fastest car I've ever owned, but I don't think I've ever had more fun in one. :)
I think it will be a mistake if they don't bring the C1 platform to North America.what I don't like about ford is they always cut corners when they design a new car or truck .Look at the new mustang, take an ls platform make some changes to it and slap a solid axle and called a new car.I know ford is trying to sell alot of cars and trucks but if you don't do something for younger buyers like honda(new civic si with 200hp), nissan(sport), toyota(scion tc) they will lose more market share.Also they should focus more on their products(more marketing,better quality materials and so on) not just moving metal from the showroom.Toyota is # two automaker in the world now maybe # one in the next coming years, their game plan is build a high volume of cars and trucks with quality and reliability in mind which they did and look at their market share its increasing every year and the value of the company now is worth more than the big three combined (gm, ford, dodge). B)
Steve is 100% correct here. The Focus is npot a money maker by any means..... It mearly an entry level fleet car. Why do you think when you pull up to an Avis rent-a-car, they give you a focus. cheap cheap cheap.
Meoford was telling me this weekend that there is aprox. 1100 dollars worth of labour invested in our cars.... how can we expect anything less than a bucket?
The focus is a great car for someone looking for a way around town. If your looking for perfomance, handling and style..... look elsewhere.
LET'S BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES HERE FOR A SECOND FELLAS..... WE ARE MEARLY MAKING BEST OF WHAT WE GOT.... AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. B)
The Focus as a car segment is meant to lure buyers to the Ford family. it was a bomb for recalls in NA and Ford wishes it would go away.
With only a profit margin of $800 per vehicle, Ford will not put a lot of effort into the Focus.
With a profit of $6500 average on a F150, Ford will spend a great deal of time and effort getting every dollar it can out of this segment.
funny thing is, if you keep going with the line of though, focusing on the 6500 profit margin truck only, you end up pretty much conceding the car market to others.
japanese car makers used the classic strategy of gaining a beach head in north america in the relatively undefended 'low margin' space of small cars, took control of that segment and now the full out assault on the last profitable segment (trucks and SUVs) is well underway..
and as for the SVT focus, it should have been like the ITR. an AC optional equipment, sound deadening removed, take no prisoners club racer. 200hp all motor, stripped down hatch with adjustable konis and stiff springs from the factory.... that would have been sweet!
but its not.. and even if they did it, i'd pass on it in favor of a used ITR
Well, speaking as a Focus owner who was looking at the car more as a more economical way to get around that wasn't overly complicated or boring I can say that Focus does meet that need for me.
I do realize how Ford has essentially neutered the car, compared to how the car was when it was first introduced, turning it into the "rental fleet special" while at the same time hopefully making the required strides in reliability that will salvage at least some of the brands good name in NA.
However, playing Devil's advocate for a minute here, remember that in the U.S. at least that Ford has to deal with the issue of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy number for their entire fleet and they need to sell as many economical Focus as they can to counteract all those SUV's, trucks & Mustangs that guzzle gas.
So IOW Ford needs to push the Focus as their "bread and butter sedan" and a move upmarket would leave them with nothing to sell at the low end, unless they pull a GM and grab some lower end Mazda model to push in its place.
Even GM's strategy going from the Cavelier to the Cobalt and moving the Cobalt upmarket isn't working out as GM intended, at least locally they're already pushing Cobalt's that were similarly equipped to the last Caveliers for '05 at only 2K more per unit, hardly upmarket by any strech.
NefCanuck