I've done a lot of hard thinking on this matter over the last few months, and if nothing else the last few weeks underline the need for something like this.
We are basically members of a car club that asks very little of its contributing members. We are given a space on the Internet to call "our own", we represent with stickers, vinyls, and now T-shirts (again?!?). We offer a haven to new Focus owners (and old Focus owners! and ex-Focus owners!) and a place to vent, rant, and complain about bugs and recalls.
What we do not have is a membership fee.
Now, that loud whooshing sound was either everyone running away from their keyboards or pounding furiously on their keyboards, PM'ing Jay and the mods about this lunatic idea.
I'm not proposing a membership fee. What I AM proposing is a fundraising drive.
We sit here, day after day, and talk about everything under the sun (Dean?) on Jay's dime. He pays for the domain name registration, the server fees (which I've been enlightened of), and pretty much anything else that has been associated with FocusCanada.net as a cost of keeping us visible and available to the Internet.
Now, I've been warned that the naysayers (and not by Jay) that some will object to this idea as Jay spends silly amounts of cash on his car. This is true, but it's HIS cash, HIS car, and HIS website. HIS website, that he shares with us. We shouldn't depend on him for his generosity and then cry wolf when he starts running low on cash.
It doesn't matter if you've been a member here for a day, a month, a year or so (like me), or since the inception of FC.net. What matters is that we could all stand to pitch in and support the site we use and depend upon.
I think it's vital to stress that while Jay is the chief administrator and owner of the domain name, this whole thing has grown quite beyond just him and that we could all really stand to give something back here. I know there's a Paypal donations button for the site, but I don't honestly believe that it has been used a whole lot.
Here's what I propose (and yeah Jay, I've tweaked the formulas a little since I PMed you):
Bronze-level SUPPORTERS (note that it doesn't say member. I am not suggesting that this become a membership fee for access to the board and such) - $15 dollars CDN and under, with a minimum donation of $5. Bronze-level supporters get a custom avatar title of Bronze supporter or "Focus SE Supporter".
Silver-level or "ZX / ZTS / ZTW Supporter" supporters contribute $16-30 CDN and receive an appropriate title, if desired.
Gold-level supporters or "SVT Supporters" contribute $31 CDN and up and receive an appropriate title under their avatar if desired.
The same could be extended to those who wish to advertise or sponsor in the name of another organization or company.
I'm going to be making a personal donation to the club this week, and I'll be posting how much and when. Hopefully this gets the ball rolling.
Finally, this isn't a personal attack against any one person. It's something I've wanted to do for a while, and I've finally decided to push ahead with the idea.
I hope all of you view this in the correct light and decide to help out. :)
Adam
EDIT - I've also come up with other incentives for contributing members, but this will depend on support from the top and actual participation.
a couple of things
1) there are sponsors who contribute to the site and pay for the priveledge to hawk their wares (and people still bitch about the restrictions on the 'for sale' items)
2) the donations link is there, and in times of need, folks have come forward to donate to the site.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Jay does... but there are people who are willing to help if need be (I even offered to host the site on one of my personal servers if need be), and the sponsors should be covering a good portion of the cost of running the site (which, depending on bandwidth shouldn't be too high).
I personally would like to keep the fundraising drives to emergencies only.
The truth is that with EVERYTHING turning to subscription plans (phones, sites, magazines, etc etc).. people will always turn to the free sites first, and there are other totally free sites than focuscanada to turn to, so we need to ensure that this place still welcomes the casual, non-donating websurfer.
There are other business models that the site could adopt as well that would take the onus off of member contributions.
your idea is nice, and idealistic, but probably not necessary at the moment.
correct me if I'm wrong
We actually did have a bit of a donation drive a while back before the site was sponsored.
I remember there was a focuscanada.net auction or something a year or so ago.....I bid and won a strut bar.....
you know who you are.....I don't have the strut bar yet :P
This is completley optional. No-one would be made to feel that by joining the site, they're obligated to send in 5 bucks as a membership fee.
I understand that there are sponsors/advertisers who pay for the priviledge of their own space (ZX3Tuning.com) within the forum or the capability to sell their wares below the minimum post count / activity threshold. I was merely offering the possibility for such sponsorship to grow. The benefits of said sponsorship I would leave up to Jay and possibly the admin team.
What I DO strongly believe is that we should contribute to the club on more than a by-emergency basis. Just because Jay has (hypothetically) piles of cash doesn't mean we should raid his fridge until his pockets are empty and then start paying. We're freeloading and that's that.
Scoobasteve, I was not aware there was a funds drive before the site was created. I think that was at least a year before my time :)
Puppet, I understand that there are other "business models" that can be entertained by the site/club, but if that entails more intrusive advertising - I don't personally support it. I'm only one member, but I'd rather contribute to a slush fund for the site than see 5X more ads in one day to offset operating costs. One of the things that makes this site so appealing is the lack of advertising and unobtrusiveness of the existing advertising (I'm sure that's because Mitch has his own subforum).
I'm not saying that's the direction you were leaning to, but it bothers me so much I had to touch upon it.
All comments and concerns are welcome.
I agree with DP.
If worse comes to worse, I'm sure Steve would switch over to his servers. The sponsors should be already covering the majority of the costs for this site.
Were focus owners, were cheap :P :lol:
I can argue for both sides of the coin, so I'm just going to keep it simple. Would I pay, if I had to I would. If its free, I'll continue to use this resource as well. It has been brought up before about free server host for Jay and well I think there are a few of us who'd do it for him no questions asked. Whatever is decided I'll go along with.
Flofocus,May 12 2005, 12:16 PM Wrote:Were focus owners, were cheap :P :lol:
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Bingo!
Let me know if you ever need anything.
ANTHONYD,May 12 2005, 02:23 PM Wrote:Flofocus,May 12 2005, 12:16 PM Wrote:Were focus owners, were cheap :P :lol:
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Bingo!
Let me know if you ever need anything.
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Bottom line is, this site wont just go under because of funding. We will always have people (geeks :P ) here that will jump to the occasion to help out.
Well, I'm still going to make my donation this weekend.
I'm really kinda shocked. Hmm.
Bort,May 12 2005, 01:21 PM Wrote:I can argue for both sides of the coin, so I'm just going to keep it simple. Would I pay, if I had to I would. If its free, I'll continue to use this resource as well. It has been brought up before about free server host for Jay and well I think there are a few of us who'd do it for him no questions asked. Whatever is decided I'll go along with.
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i agree with bort on this...if it is absolutely needed, i say we pay. Another thing i wanna touch upon is, adam, you know how you said for other company's to be apart of focuscanada.net without having to post their ads and such all over the place, what about giving them a fee or something, or them giving us say 10% off on alot of their stuff. I came across a forum that did that, and they had tones of resources, hell, they even had a hairdressing place giving them 15% off on cuts. But there were some restrictions, such as having to represent that forum 100%. Such as wearing their brand of clothing to ride nights, or car shows, and having decals and such on their rides. This i think is an awsome idea, and hell, if jay wants, charge them! I know i haven't been around for long, but the time i have been around, i have seen a few people form other companies try to post their sales on here. I say, if they want to post, tell them to contact the admin(jay) or mods or something of that sort. And that the members here should show their contribution to the site somehow, weather it be getting new "loyal" members, or posting their something useless, but mostly usefull information. That's my 2 cents, but back to borts post, i would pay if i had to. Those are just my ideas :D
come on Adam....you cant be that surprised. Look how I was on MSN....Told you so. :P
We have the resources here that if Jay can't afford or have time to run this site that somebody can take it over without to much problems...
The problem with having vendors and such with this site is....well this site isnt exactly family oriented and some of the stuff posted here could offend those vendors or make them look bad. :ph34r:
The problem with this discussion is that it can easily turn into a giant Focus Canada food drive. An unnessesary one. (at this time.) I understand that there are some exspenses involved in maintaining a webpage for guys to come hand "hang out" between surfing porn.
Also keep in mind that as soon as people start paying to be here, attitudes can change " I pay my dues... you can't ban me" etc... I can see it now.
I can't understand why you are so shocked. There are hundered guys on here that would spring into action in a heart beat to save this place if we had to.
ANTHONYD,May 12 2005, 03:36 PM Wrote:Also keep in mind that as soon as people start paying to be here, attitudes can change " I pay my dues... you can't ban me" etc... I can see it now.
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VERY good point.
Flofocus,May 12 2005, 03:48 PM Wrote:ANTHONYD,May 12 2005, 03:36 PM Wrote:Also keep in mind that as soon as people start paying to be here, attitudes can change " I pay my dues... you can't ban me" etc... I can see it now.
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VERY good point.
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It's like anything...
How many times have you heard someone say "I paid for my ticket... you can't ask me to leave" or something to that effect.
Actually, that was hardly the intent. And I would never expect that supporting the board would carry such a priviledge. No-one else should, either.
Alright, I'm not shocked. I'm disappointed.
I see my entire point, as usual, has floating right by everyone.
It's Jay's creation, but the club/board itself is run by a number of people, and enjoyed by an exponentially larger population. I was merely suggesting that we give something back. You are all so freaking eager to have Jay pay for everything and you sit here and yak all day long while not helping contribute to the site financially. I had assumed I was in the company of individuals who could see beyond their own egos and pithy ideas of self-gain. I was wrong. Jay has not asked me to do this, I offered to do it myself because cost is cost and when everyone's drinking your beer you would expect that someone buy once in a while. It's the same thing whether you care to see it or not.
Again, I'm disappointed.
You all think that one person should pay for the opportunity that we all enjoy to use this site. That's really, really wrong.
I'm done :angry:
Flame away.
NOS2Go4Me,May 12 2005, 04:00 PM Wrote:Actually, that was hardly the intent. And I would never expect that supporting the board would carry such a priviledge. No-one else should, either.
Alright, I'm not shocked. I'm disappointed.
I see my entire point, as usual, has floating right by everyone.
It's Jay's creation, but the club/board itself is run by a number of people, and enjoyed by an exponentially larger population. I was merely suggesting that we give something back. You are all so freaking eager to have Jay pay for everything and you sit here and yak all day long while not helping contribute to the site financially. I had assumed I was in the company of individuals who could see beyond their own egos and pithy ideas of self-gain. I was wrong. Jay has not asked me to do this, I offered to do it myself because cost is cost and when everyone's drinking your beer you would expect that someone buy once in a while. It's the same thing whether you care to see it or not.
Again, I'm disappointed.
You all think that one person should pay for the opportunity that we all enjoy to use this site. That's really, really wrong.
I'm done :angry:
Flame away.
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Naw, no falmes here.
If this site were to go for s**t tomorrow... I'd find somewhere else to go.
(as would everyone else)
I get your point exactly.
Take the Focaljet for instance... I now it's 1000 times bigger than we will ever be, but it's free. It's supported by the sponsors kicking up money every month to keep the joint afloat. There is no reason this place should be any different.
Why flame?
Its good that your doing this and all....but I just dont think it will fly. I warned you about it.
Nothing is free these days....so when we get to have something for free, most take it and run with it.
This site wont go down tomorrow...or the next day...as long as we have people like you and I around, it will stay up without any problems. :D
If there is problems, all Jay has to do is say so and it will be taken care of.
Easy as dat my freind ;)
No need to be disappointed.
EDIT: We give back to this site all the time. When I am home, I go to shows....people ask about the car and this is this place is the first thing I mention. We all give back to this site.....just not with $$.....BUT if it came down to it and Jay needed money....it would be in his hands the next day. Kind of why i agree with DP and use this only as emergencies. People will give a lot more and be a lot more receptive to this idea if Jay posted something like " I have no money, I used it all on parts I dont need ( :P ), please contribute money to keep the site running". Guranteed he'd have enuff donations to keep the site running for at leats another year.
I guess I'm not done.
If this place turns into FJ... I'm gone.
There's a sense of real community here that you'll never find on the Jet, partly because we're Canadian. This is THE Canadian Focus club, and rightfully so.
Again, if everyone wants to treat this place like the Jet, then it WILL end up like the Jet with nothing but trash-talking newbs, large bills, and large ads to pay the bills. There's what, 5 guys in the SPI forum that are hardcore members, and 30-40 in the main tuning areas? That's sad. We're close to that here with a fraction of the membership because this place is QUALITY, not quantity.
I'm trying to understand everyone's abhorrence of an optional support system. If you don't like it, don't support it. No one is twisting your arm in the matter.
What I had come up with was an idea where anyone could sponsor a draw for contributing members. This responsibility wouldn't just fall with company sponsors (although their support would be cool) but contributing members if they so desired. Flo's Stanley Cup draw that I won my awesome door pull covers comes to mind - they're still my fave interior item, period :D The idea behind the draw was that more contributing members meant a better server / better reliability and a more active community.
I'm all for it personally, and I was/am more than ready to sponsor a month's draw for (insert item here). Maybe it's just my nature, maybe I view money as something different than the rest of you. I currently co-sponsor and co-host North Bay's most successful LAN party in years (last 6 anyways). We've got store sponsorship and a new location as of July as well. Every other month I sponsor $30-40 dollars' worth of store merchandise from our sponsor's store as a free door prize. On alternating months, the owners do the same. I've actually won once in 6 months. :)
Again, it's what I like to do (support community-minded events and organizations) so my view on it is largely different than most by the looks of all of it.
Rather than bitch about people, I ought to just respect their ideas and beliefs.
Actually, I've got some more even WACKIER ideas
Meh, when the site was in trouble i donated. i will in the future. in the end i think the sponsors should be footing the cost of the site. nevertheless. from what ive heard at one of the st.louis meets how little it costs to sponsor this place for a year. :ph34r: Actually, im pretty sure the bar tab was more $$$ that night. :lol: