11-10-2004, 12:00 AM
11-10-2004, 01:59 PM
Hello, A lot of you know me all ready, I have been doing Foci for 4 years and have more dyno time and more tuning time than ANY other Focus shop anywhere , My ZX3 makes 518HP at the wheels and runs 11.88@123MPH on DOT tires and is a ATX , My SVT makes 326HP and 331TQ at the wheels and runs 12.99 @ 111 with a 100% all stock engine and also with DOT tires both are daily drivers and are not stripped at all
Now let me clear some of thei BS up
QUOTE,,As far as the features of the Predator .vs. SCT's Xcalibrator, there are none. In fact, the Xcalibrator is a much better and easier unit to use because of its design and of course SCT's technology
**Both are easy to use and i have had both fail to load through the OBDII port , The SCT and the Predator take about the same amount of time to get the tune into the car, The SCT and the Predator are nothing more than tools to load tunes from the PC to the PCM
The Predator does scan, does Datalog, does clear and check CEL (for some reason this information was left out ), What good is being able to make changes if you dont have a scan tool to see what changes need to be made
QUOTE,,We feel the SCT Tuning Products are FAR superior because of the people who designed it and their background as well as the 4bank technology ustilized in the SCT stuff, which is a result of Chris and Jerry's background.
***Not sure where you got your info but Chris and Jerry DID NOT design the 4 bank
QUOTE,,We have not done a TON of Focuses, but they are not very different from the Hundreds of mustangs, tbirds, trucks, etc. As far as the quality and acuracy of the tune, you would have nothing to fear.
***If you have never tuned a SVT Focus how can you say that, The SCT Tune that is on the website sucks because i have used it and it spk knocked like crazy
QUOTE,,In a few weeks the 9300 will be shipping with the tools necessary to do everything a Predator can (detect DTC, make small changes, etc),
***So the 9300 can datalog and scan now ?
QUOTE,,What meister is saying is that there are more parameters and variables available to the TUNER for creating the files using SCT over Diablo.
***There is NOTHING that the SCT tune can do that the Predator tune cannot do , Please tell me what parameters/variables the SCT can do that i cannot ?
QUOTE,,He feels that since the guy who actually wrote all of Ford's factory computer programs now works with SCT that there is some intrinsic knowledge there that Diablo isn't privy to, so to say that SCT may have a slight advantage.
***Who might this be , Because no one at SCT wrote ANY of the Focus programs
Come on guys know what you are talking about before you start all this misinformation, There is soooooo much misinformation and things not told that i didnt know where to start
Both the Predator and the SCT will do the same thing it will be up to the TUNER doing the tune IN the unit that will make the differance
Tom
Now let me clear some of thei BS up
QUOTE,,As far as the features of the Predator .vs. SCT's Xcalibrator, there are none. In fact, the Xcalibrator is a much better and easier unit to use because of its design and of course SCT's technology
**Both are easy to use and i have had both fail to load through the OBDII port , The SCT and the Predator take about the same amount of time to get the tune into the car, The SCT and the Predator are nothing more than tools to load tunes from the PC to the PCM
The Predator does scan, does Datalog, does clear and check CEL (for some reason this information was left out ), What good is being able to make changes if you dont have a scan tool to see what changes need to be made
QUOTE,,We feel the SCT Tuning Products are FAR superior because of the people who designed it and their background as well as the 4bank technology ustilized in the SCT stuff, which is a result of Chris and Jerry's background.
***Not sure where you got your info but Chris and Jerry DID NOT design the 4 bank
QUOTE,,We have not done a TON of Focuses, but they are not very different from the Hundreds of mustangs, tbirds, trucks, etc. As far as the quality and acuracy of the tune, you would have nothing to fear.
***If you have never tuned a SVT Focus how can you say that, The SCT Tune that is on the website sucks because i have used it and it spk knocked like crazy
QUOTE,,In a few weeks the 9300 will be shipping with the tools necessary to do everything a Predator can (detect DTC, make small changes, etc),
***So the 9300 can datalog and scan now ?
QUOTE,,What meister is saying is that there are more parameters and variables available to the TUNER for creating the files using SCT over Diablo.
***There is NOTHING that the SCT tune can do that the Predator tune cannot do , Please tell me what parameters/variables the SCT can do that i cannot ?
QUOTE,,He feels that since the guy who actually wrote all of Ford's factory computer programs now works with SCT that there is some intrinsic knowledge there that Diablo isn't privy to, so to say that SCT may have a slight advantage.
***Who might this be , Because no one at SCT wrote ANY of the Focus programs
Come on guys know what you are talking about before you start all this misinformation, There is soooooo much misinformation and things not told that i didnt know where to start
Both the Predator and the SCT will do the same thing it will be up to the TUNER doing the tune IN the unit that will make the differance
Tom
11-10-2004, 02:02 PM
Great post Tom. *thumbsup*
I will quote myself when I said... "theres no usefull information in this thread anyways"
I will quote myself when I said... "theres no usefull information in this thread anyways"
11-10-2004, 02:12 PM
I don't know how you found our litlle world but thank you....
Some day after I retire my automagic Focus from the wife's necessity of being an automagic, and what the government allows etcterera and I'll give you a great platform to build up and I'm thinking "dedicated gov be damned road car". A road car so quick I want both hands on the wheel always.
For the record only, I'll buy the wife something else so I can build up the Focus.
Not that it matters but for perspective only I not only have an auto Focus out of necessity (marraige), I also have a 5sp WRX and a hot bike (see sig).
Some day after I retire my automagic Focus from the wife's necessity of being an automagic, and what the government allows etcterera and I'll give you a great platform to build up and I'm thinking "dedicated gov be damned road car". A road car so quick I want both hands on the wheel always.
For the record only, I'll buy the wife something else so I can build up the Focus.
Not that it matters but for perspective only I not only have an auto Focus out of necessity (marraige), I also have a 5sp WRX and a hot bike (see sig).
11-10-2004, 02:56 PM
Hey Carey.... let me know how it goes. maybe ill do some tuning once the JRSC is installed.
11-10-2004, 03:18 PM
Hey Tom, thanks for chiming in with some info...never once did I disrespect you or knock your work. Your focus is very impressive. Keep up the good work.
As far as the SCT Quicktune NOT doing more things then Predator, you are very very wrong. Diablo DOES NOT have Software like quicktune that is click and ago, allowing users to click check box's with their modifications (almost all possible modification combo's) and have a safe, reliable custom tune written for them. These functions are UNIQUE to SCT.
Some of the claims of the 9300 are not currently a function, but being built in for future release.
SCT's SVT tune being crap? HA...See, you loaded the values file from SCT's website and that is why it was crap. I have never heard of their base files being off, but sometimes it happen. All of my tunes are written from scratch. I do not trust other's work and only my own. Try doing one from scratch with SCT software and you will find much better results.
Yes no one at SCT wrote a Focus computer, but other computers this is opposite. Look at the parameters of the computers, almost identicle. No one in the industry can read HEX like Jerry. SCT has been the first to release software and hardware for the new mustang, new F series trucks, new Diesel trucks. Always the first and always the best.
Jerry, and Chris are two of the best tuners around. Anyone who was working with other tuning software and hardware, who tried SCT's products switched for a reason.
Every tuner has their own preference.
You can come back calling BS, calling me out, etc or we can both work hard to offer everyone here exceptional services and results.
As far as the SCT Quicktune NOT doing more things then Predator, you are very very wrong. Diablo DOES NOT have Software like quicktune that is click and ago, allowing users to click check box's with their modifications (almost all possible modification combo's) and have a safe, reliable custom tune written for them. These functions are UNIQUE to SCT.
Some of the claims of the 9300 are not currently a function, but being built in for future release.
SCT's SVT tune being crap? HA...See, you loaded the values file from SCT's website and that is why it was crap. I have never heard of their base files being off, but sometimes it happen. All of my tunes are written from scratch. I do not trust other's work and only my own. Try doing one from scratch with SCT software and you will find much better results.
Yes no one at SCT wrote a Focus computer, but other computers this is opposite. Look at the parameters of the computers, almost identicle. No one in the industry can read HEX like Jerry. SCT has been the first to release software and hardware for the new mustang, new F series trucks, new Diesel trucks. Always the first and always the best.
Jerry, and Chris are two of the best tuners around. Anyone who was working with other tuning software and hardware, who tried SCT's products switched for a reason.
Every tuner has their own preference.
You can come back calling BS, calling me out, etc or we can both work hard to offer everyone here exceptional services and results.
11-10-2004, 03:38 PM
Holy crap! oh alot of posts LOL
Welcome to the site Tom.
Welcome to the site Tom.
11-10-2004, 11:36 PM
Glad to see you here Tom. Wanna sponsor us? :lol:
Good post....
Good post....
11-10-2004, 11:51 PM
scoobasteve,Nov 10 2004, 12:56 AM Wrote:Hey Carey.... let me know how it goes. maybe ill do some tuning once the JRSC is installed.you bet Steve ;)
11-10-2004, 11:55 PM
QUOTE,,As far as the SCT Quicktune NOT doing more things then Predator, you are very very wrong. Diablo DOES NOT have Software like quicktune that is click and ago, allowing users to click check box's with their modifications (almost all possible modification combo's) and have a safe, reliable custom tune written for them. These functions are UNIQUE to SCT.
***I never said anything about quicktune, And i curious how you can talk about it so much never having tryed it , It isnt even out yet and wont be for months , Throught this whole post there has been a compasison of Predator to SCT and how wonderfull SCT is GOING TO BE and yet all of the things that the Predator can do NOW was never stated
YES Diablo has quicktune both companys have had it for years now ,How do you think all the cookie cutter chips from superchips and Diablo were done , You had a list of mods with a list of parameters , You went through the list checked the mods done to the car and it made a generic chip, AND THEY WERE WORTHLESS ,Will it be a good starting point so some one does not have to sit there and start with a blank template yes but it will be just that a starting point , No 2 cars are the same yet the quicktune perameters will be ,If you take 2 cars with the same exact mods put them into the quicktune it will give you the same settings ,just like the old cookie cutter chips
This is why Diablo is not doing this its old technology and it didnt work back then
So what is so "UNIQUE" about that
QUOTE.. the claims of the 9300 are not currently a function, but being built in for future release.
***If there not even out yet how can you compair them to the Predator as being better
QUOTE,,,SCT's SVT tune being crap? HA...See, you loaded the values file from SCT's website and that is why it was crap. I have never heard of their base files being off, but sometimes it happen. All of my tunes are written from scratch. I do not trust other's work and only my own. Try doing one from scratch with SCT software and you will find much better results.
***I also start with a blank template every time ,but needed a good laugh so i watched another company playing with the SCT SVT stuff use it on my Dyno
QUOTE,,,Yes no one at SCT wrote a Focus computer, but other computers this is opposite. Look at the parameters of the computers, almost identicle. No one in the industry can read HEX like Jerry. SCT has been the first to release software and hardware for the new mustang, new F series trucks, new Diesel trucks. Always the first and always the best.
***Do you even know what Jerry did at ford ? As for reading HEX im guessing you are forgeting about Mike Wesley who had the first true tuning software out called Chipmaster Autologic and if you were doing Mustangs and tuning like you said im sure you had it and was using it ,,As for the new Mustang,F Truck and Diesel where do you get your information because like through all of this it is incorrect
QUOTE,,Jerry, and Chris are two of the best tuners around. Anyone who was working with other tuning software and hardware, who tried SCT's products switched for a reason.
***I have worked with other
Autologic
Chipmaster Revolution
Uni-Chip
Fast
Pectel
SCT
And i am sticking with Diablo for many reasons ,,As for Chris and Jerry being the best tuners around I dont know there are many tuners out there that are very good
You keep saying that SCT is the best yet both products do the same exact thin tune the car, It comes down to the tuner that is making the tuned files , If he is good that the tune will be good with either the Diablo or the SCT
A big reason my main tuning isnt SCT is because SCT tryes to controle your buisness with , If you dont do SCT exclusive we will charge you more for the chips and your lower down on the list for new releases , If SCT thinks there product is better they should stand on that not demand that a company use ONLY SCT or we will charge you more for our parts
Tom
***I never said anything about quicktune, And i curious how you can talk about it so much never having tryed it , It isnt even out yet and wont be for months , Throught this whole post there has been a compasison of Predator to SCT and how wonderfull SCT is GOING TO BE and yet all of the things that the Predator can do NOW was never stated
YES Diablo has quicktune both companys have had it for years now ,How do you think all the cookie cutter chips from superchips and Diablo were done , You had a list of mods with a list of parameters , You went through the list checked the mods done to the car and it made a generic chip, AND THEY WERE WORTHLESS ,Will it be a good starting point so some one does not have to sit there and start with a blank template yes but it will be just that a starting point , No 2 cars are the same yet the quicktune perameters will be ,If you take 2 cars with the same exact mods put them into the quicktune it will give you the same settings ,just like the old cookie cutter chips
This is why Diablo is not doing this its old technology and it didnt work back then
So what is so "UNIQUE" about that
QUOTE.. the claims of the 9300 are not currently a function, but being built in for future release.
***If there not even out yet how can you compair them to the Predator as being better
QUOTE,,,SCT's SVT tune being crap? HA...See, you loaded the values file from SCT's website and that is why it was crap. I have never heard of their base files being off, but sometimes it happen. All of my tunes are written from scratch. I do not trust other's work and only my own. Try doing one from scratch with SCT software and you will find much better results.
***I also start with a blank template every time ,but needed a good laugh so i watched another company playing with the SCT SVT stuff use it on my Dyno
QUOTE,,,Yes no one at SCT wrote a Focus computer, but other computers this is opposite. Look at the parameters of the computers, almost identicle. No one in the industry can read HEX like Jerry. SCT has been the first to release software and hardware for the new mustang, new F series trucks, new Diesel trucks. Always the first and always the best.
***Do you even know what Jerry did at ford ? As for reading HEX im guessing you are forgeting about Mike Wesley who had the first true tuning software out called Chipmaster Autologic and if you were doing Mustangs and tuning like you said im sure you had it and was using it ,,As for the new Mustang,F Truck and Diesel where do you get your information because like through all of this it is incorrect
QUOTE,,Jerry, and Chris are two of the best tuners around. Anyone who was working with other tuning software and hardware, who tried SCT's products switched for a reason.
***I have worked with other
Autologic
Chipmaster Revolution
Uni-Chip
Fast
Pectel
SCT
And i am sticking with Diablo for many reasons ,,As for Chris and Jerry being the best tuners around I dont know there are many tuners out there that are very good
You keep saying that SCT is the best yet both products do the same exact thin tune the car, It comes down to the tuner that is making the tuned files , If he is good that the tune will be good with either the Diablo or the SCT
A big reason my main tuning isnt SCT is because SCT tryes to controle your buisness with , If you dont do SCT exclusive we will charge you more for the chips and your lower down on the list for new releases , If SCT thinks there product is better they should stand on that not demand that a company use ONLY SCT or we will charge you more for our parts
Tom
11-11-2004, 12:18 AM
Tom, it seems you have a lot of anger towards SCT and the people at SCT. Instead of bashing people, quit while you are a head and let your work speak for itself.
The 9300 is already out, and quicktune is shipping with it with in a few weeks. Not sure where you are getting this info about being delayed for months, but you are wrong. SCT's software and value files are more accurate then any regular cookie cutter tune and always have been. I have seen many tuners load base files and be on their way. SCT has obviouslly taken this into account and has a reputation to worry about (they would not allow crapy tunes to be running around). When developing quicktune, this was an important point they took into account. I HAVE seen Quicktune, and used a beta version of quicktune. This wont be your standard cookie cutter tune, but will not be as good as a custom tune (as I said at the very beginning).
Sure you used their base files for a good laugh....good excuse. It is always wise to waste time just to get a laugh out of something that is not supposed to be 100% accurate in te first place, but just a starting point. Get off your high horse.
SCT WAS, 100%, the FIRST to crack the new computer on the Mustang and some of ther other PTEC and CAN vehicles...how/why you think other wise, I am not sure
As far as SCT's business relations are concerned, it is not my place to speak about this. Take it up with them.
Like you are pointing at me for, you are making not 100% true claims about SCT, Because of your position in the focus community, you know people will want to believe what you say and you are taking advantage of this
Here is a good solution to all this bickering,
You stick with Diablo, I will stick with SCT and we will see you at the track.
The 9300 is already out, and quicktune is shipping with it with in a few weeks. Not sure where you are getting this info about being delayed for months, but you are wrong. SCT's software and value files are more accurate then any regular cookie cutter tune and always have been. I have seen many tuners load base files and be on their way. SCT has obviouslly taken this into account and has a reputation to worry about (they would not allow crapy tunes to be running around). When developing quicktune, this was an important point they took into account. I HAVE seen Quicktune, and used a beta version of quicktune. This wont be your standard cookie cutter tune, but will not be as good as a custom tune (as I said at the very beginning).
Sure you used their base files for a good laugh....good excuse. It is always wise to waste time just to get a laugh out of something that is not supposed to be 100% accurate in te first place, but just a starting point. Get off your high horse.
SCT WAS, 100%, the FIRST to crack the new computer on the Mustang and some of ther other PTEC and CAN vehicles...how/why you think other wise, I am not sure
As far as SCT's business relations are concerned, it is not my place to speak about this. Take it up with them.
Like you are pointing at me for, you are making not 100% true claims about SCT, Because of your position in the focus community, you know people will want to believe what you say and you are taking advantage of this
Here is a good solution to all this bickering,
You stick with Diablo, I will stick with SCT and we will see you at the track.
11-11-2004, 12:24 AM
Hey Tom,
I'm glad you stopped by.. good to get a bit more info comparing diablo with SCT.
in your honest opinion, do you think the tuning manual from SCT will be any help? I mean, their base tunes are a bit off (not terrible by any means on the stock zetec with vortech HO)... but I wonder if I'll get a mustang tuning manual, or a manual that will help me make the right decisions...
meister still any word on if the quicktune tunes can be saved to a file the pro-racer package can read?
I'm glad you stopped by.. good to get a bit more info comparing diablo with SCT.
in your honest opinion, do you think the tuning manual from SCT will be any help? I mean, their base tunes are a bit off (not terrible by any means on the stock zetec with vortech HO)... but I wonder if I'll get a mustang tuning manual, or a manual that will help me make the right decisions...
meister still any word on if the quicktune tunes can be saved to a file the pro-racer package can read?
11-11-2004, 12:30 AM
darkpupet, the tuning manual will give you definitions of all the values and scalars in Advantage and give you some basic tuning tips. What I suggest is reading all of the descriptions in advantages and understanding how to use them.
The best way to learn, is to do.
As far as I know, the .zcf files from your pro racer package can be sent to your 9100 flasher, imported into quicktune, etc. In addition, I believe you can import quicktune files onto the 9100 and advantage for your vehicles. Advantage (what comes with the pro package) will not do CAN computer codes. Quicktune is used for this
The best way to learn, is to do.
As far as I know, the .zcf files from your pro racer package can be sent to your 9100 flasher, imported into quicktune, etc. In addition, I believe you can import quicktune files onto the 9100 and advantage for your vehicles. Advantage (what comes with the pro package) will not do CAN computer codes. Quicktune is used for this
11-11-2004, 12:35 AM
meister@steeda.ca,Nov 10 2004, 02:18 PM Wrote:You stick with Diablo, I will stick with SCT and we will see you at the track.Judging by the results you got from that NA Focus build we were talking about earlier....My money is on Tom.
11-11-2004, 12:39 AM
With those mods, the numbers are where they should be. Were consistant with the other tune done by another big focus tuner in the south.
For one of our first focuses, it was great results. Ask tom to see some of his first tunes and I bet they were worse then the tunes he is putting out now
You can pass judgement all you want. We will have results to blow everyone away, like we have done with every other vehicle.
For one of our first focuses, it was great results. Ask tom to see some of his first tunes and I bet they were worse then the tunes he is putting out now
You can pass judgement all you want. We will have results to blow everyone away, like we have done with every other vehicle.
11-11-2004, 12:48 AM
oops sorry, double post :o
11-11-2004, 12:59 AM
meister@steeda.ca,Nov 10 2004, 02:39 PM Wrote:With those mods, the numbers are where they should be. Were consistant with the other tune done by another big focus tuner in the south.So because it's on par with someone else with crappy results..it's ok?
For one of our first focuses, it was great results. Ask tom to see some of his first tunes and I bet they were worse then the tunes he is putting out now
You can pass judgement all you want. We will have results to blow everyone away, like we have done with every other vehicle.
:unsure: :unsure:
Anyways, pointless to talk about this now. We'll see the results at the track next year.
11-11-2004, 01:07 AM
wish my pro racer did datalogging :angry:
11-11-2004, 01:08 AM
Ya know this whole argument was spawned by some people on this board that have no diplomacy in their quest for information, or perhaps it's just vanity. How many times did I say over and over that the meat and potatoes is the ability of the tuner? So what if Paul prefers SCT and Tom prefers Diablo. The discussion has now moved into two industry people debating and my guess is that none of you have the intrinsic knowledge to even make a comment... gee, do you work with these programs everyday?? Who you might 'believe' is irrelevant because as Paul wisely said, they both want to offer the best possible results for the customer.
This board is so quick to jump all over Steeda.ca when all they have done is put heart and soul into growing this whole community, never mind keeping this board alive when it couldn't on its own. You've even blind sided them with total bullshit a few times and still, here they are working for you at 200%. Give em break sometime, you won't regret it.
Tom, much respect to you. I have been following your progress since the early days of FocalJet (I'm member 215 or so ;) ) and have always been impressed... easily one of the best if not the to date. Your experience is your greatest asset and until Paul has been tuning foci for four years, his greatest asset is his current success and his drive to be the best. His accomplishments to date are impressive. Regardless, I hope we can agree to disagree in certain areas of the industry while maintaining integrity and continuing to innovate.
This will be my last post in this thread :ph34r:
This board is so quick to jump all over Steeda.ca when all they have done is put heart and soul into growing this whole community, never mind keeping this board alive when it couldn't on its own. You've even blind sided them with total bullshit a few times and still, here they are working for you at 200%. Give em break sometime, you won't regret it.
Tom, much respect to you. I have been following your progress since the early days of FocalJet (I'm member 215 or so ;) ) and have always been impressed... easily one of the best if not the to date. Your experience is your greatest asset and until Paul has been tuning foci for four years, his greatest asset is his current success and his drive to be the best. His accomplishments to date are impressive. Regardless, I hope we can agree to disagree in certain areas of the industry while maintaining integrity and continuing to innovate.
This will be my last post in this thread :ph34r:
11-11-2004, 01:11 AM
BerinG,Nov 10 2004, 03:07 PM Wrote:wish my pro racer did datalogging :angry:Pick up SCT's raptor. Has the fastest refresh rate of any datalogger available