steve i can't find anything that parts list that sheds light on this.. maybe you are right and that chip is fundamentally different from the one chipguy uses.. or maybe that chip just has something like.. "if you go over 5V MAF signal just dump a crapload of fuel into the motor and back off the spark timing to keep the motor from grenading"
as for that inline resistor.. all those SAFC and other stuff that honda guys love are just that.. devices for applying a transfer function to the MAF
you should do a bit of digging to find out if in fact the chip is just dumping a whole bunch of fuel after a certain point or if it really does have the ability to properly control the motor.... right now i'm speculating that your PCM does not have full control of the motor after a certain point when the amount of intake air gets too high
chipguy was pretty adamant about the PCM tables that had MAF output as one of the input variables not having values after 5V.. but again.. i am clearly run out of tech and borderline speculating based on the 2nd hand knowledge...
as for the MAF.. i believe we have a hot wire MAF, and a wire is kept at a constant temperature differential relative to a thermoresistor.. the more air passing through the MAF the faster the hot wire loses heat, and the more current the MAF needs to keep up the temperature differential. the current used by the MAF to maintain the temperature differential is also the MAF's output signal..
the curves of MAF output v. airflow i've seen look logarithmic, with the MAF output seemingly bounded from above at some value (presumably 5V in our application)
naz,
I'm pretty sure the vortech unit is best-guessing the fuel.... While I know the kit has been tested, and it works fine for everyone else, there's a level of detail I'd rather have with a balanced tune. The ford ecu is smart... smart enough to keep the engine safe so long as it knows all the variables. But when you take away it's ability to directly assess certain information (ie, proper MAF readings), it begins to add an element of risk.
Hence the reason why it's a very good idea to head to the dyno to check this stuff out. Until I hit a dyno, this is all speculation tho..
I think you're definitely on the right track about the MAF. We know we can't change the ECU limit, but I was sort of hoping that the MAF is capable of more, and that it just can't be read. But if it's measuring the amount of energy needed to keep the wire hot, there would be physical limitations to the stock sensor.
Which means that recalibration would most likely require sensor replacement (different thermal properties at give voltages or exposed surface area)...hence the expensive price.
I started a thread
over here to get the discussion going, but I may post it on Modular Depot tomorrow...
Anyways, that's the last of the MAF in this thread for me. . I'll start another topic as findings progress (could make a nice little tech article)...
Hey Guys, I have not read the entire thread but I will pass on some info that might make life easy.
We stopped selling the JR unit because it was making no power at all. Right now we are not advertising a blower kit for the focus but CAN get you the Vortech kit of requested....we will also install it for you if you wish.
Hope I am not stepping on any toes, just passing along information.
meister@steeda.ca,Apr 11 2004, 08:44 PM Wrote:We stopped selling the JR unit because it was making no power at all.
Care to back that up? Many publications say otherwise, perhaps you meant to say something like for the cost of the unit it doesn't make enough power.
You could lose potential customers making false statements like that. Unless you can back up your statements, then thats egg on my face and everybody that planted down the 4g's for the Jackson.
Sorry to offend and upset you.
Let me correct myself. Steeda, and we fall under the umbrella of steeda because our inventory is based on their catalogue advised us to stop offering this product because it was not making enough power for the money people were shelling out for it. I am not saying you made a poor decision buying it. I was just passing word down from Florida, hoping to help people who were confused make up their minds.. Please don't shoot the messanger.
Fortunatly, we did not sell any of these. Other vendors or Steeda Autosports USA may have, but we did not.
Seems to make plenty of power for me.... Compared to the 7k plus pricetag for a vortech the 4000 for the jr seems a reasonable buy. 205 whp for 4k or 240 whp for 7.5k... money buys power.
bluetoy,Apr 12 2004, 04:19 PM Wrote:Seems to make plenty of power for me.... Compared to the 7k plus pricetag for a vortech the 4000 for the jr seems a reasonable buy. 205 whp for 4k or 240 whp for 7.5k... money buys power.
on the JR website they are claiming if you bolt on that SC onto a bone stock ZX3 you get like 150whp
and the price is around 4k usd.
so that's like a 40whp gain for 4k usd, plus IMHO its maxing out the injectors
so ya i agree with the steeda.ca guy.. that does seem like a crappy amount of power for the money
for the guy with the JRSC who posted.. what did you dyno at, what were your A/Fs like and all that..
just curious.. cuz i am sort of magazine racing here
I dynoed at 188 on a mustang dyno with A/F steady at around 11.9. When I dyno at Dasilve I expect to see 200-205 hp. That is about the difference between a mustang dyno and a dynojet.
BTW I have an SVT..
Its obvious he wasnt reffering to the SVT JR..... And Steeda's right, the ZX3 JRSC just doesnt make enough power for the price. Sure its a reliable option, but when people shelling out coin for FI they USUALLY do their research, and most wouldnt opt for a JR with everything else thats on the market.
-P@
if the jacksons racing super was at about 2gs I would pick it up but when its 4 gs for 40hp I dont think its a great buy. Thats turbo plus built up internals teriotry.
if anyone is looking for a jrsc for way cheaper and still brand new, look here:
http://www.groupbuycenter.com/Listings.aspx?id=207
where it says "filter by" click ford. you will see that they sell it for 2250 usd which works out to aprox. $2700
or you could trollaround and find a used one.
i just found one for 1475 canadian including shipping from a guy that traded in his zx3 for an svt.
i'm not sure how great the jrsc is, but from what i read you get decent power and it is very reliable. coupled with the fact that i got a great deal, i can't see myself getting anything else.
Knight Rider out...
damn..that a good deal man.. hope it works well for ya...
p.s. just read back through this thread.. it's a classic...
its all about the power works s/c unit with fmic. focus sport is also bringing out there own kit.
If I came across a used one at good price then maybe. But brand new these things are costly...
Ass,Nov 11 2004, 12:12 PM Wrote:If I came across a used one at good price then maybe. But brand new these things are costly...
Yeah but would you wanna put one on? I think it was you yourself that said the auto tranny couldn't handle it
bluetoy: only 188whp on an svt? i thought these things could do like 250 or something.. and you had a smaller pulley too didn't you? or was that before you had the small pulley (or maybe you never installed it? hehe) ..
BerinG,Nov 15 2004, 03:47 PM Wrote:bluetoy: only 188whp on an svt? i thought these things could do like 250 or something.. and you had a smaller pulley too didn't you? or was that before you had the small pulley (or maybe you never installed it? hehe) ..
188 on a mustang dyno= approx 200 on a dynojet. Stock pulley. Jrsc makes 200 whp on a dynojet.
bluetoy,Nov 15 2004, 06:19 PM Wrote:BerinG,Nov 15 2004, 03:47 PM Wrote:bluetoy: only 188whp on an svt? i thought these things could do like 250 or something.. and you had a smaller pulley too didn't you? or was that before you had the small pulley (or maybe you never installed it? hehe) ..
188 on a mustang dyno= approx 200 on a dynojet. Stock pulley. Jrsc makes 200 whp on a dynojet.
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oh ok thats better.. stock pulley is what.. maybe 5-6psi ? i know the supercharger is bigger though.. but good for comparison.. i thought you had changed the pulley
I cant wait to install mine..... maybe bluetoy should put up the link to his dasilva dyno again.