Hey guys.
So I was driving my focus last week and had a cop pull me over to give me a ticket because my car was too loud. It is obviously loud, but in my opinion I wouldn't consider it excessive, but we all know my opinion doesn't have any bearing on the situation.
The car doesn't have a muffler right now, and I'm sporting a 2.5" Borla catback, so its essentially straight pipe from the cat. The cop gave me a ticket for "Improper Muffler". Do I fight it? I clearly have no case, I do in fact have an improper muffler. I'm more worried about the ticket affecting my insurance as I am still only 24 and still pay copious amounts for insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation, or have any useful information about insurance, etc?
Thanks ahead guys.
ticket wont do anything to your insurance. only time a ticket hinders your insurance is if you get points taken off.
in your case your in the wrong. id pay it and install a muffler of some kind
only reall things that go to your insurance is speeding over a certain limit, seat belt, stunting, DUI,stuff like that
Your from windsor right? I would fight it , thats bs. We have some many harleys driving around that are twice as loud. I have been pulled over to for that two but i didnt get a ticket.
(01-31-2013, 02:00 AM)drunkinmonkey Wrote: [ -> ]ticket wont do anything to your insurance. only time a ticket hinders your insurance is if you get points taken off.
in your case your in the wrong. id pay it and install a muffler of some kind
only reall things that go to your insurance is speeding over a certain limit, seat belt, stunting, DUI,stuff like that
Just as a general rule you should consider that any ticket, under some circumstances, can affect your insurance; for example even if the ticket doesn't deduct points if you have
enough of them, the total number of tickets can increase your premiums.
In terms of whether or not you fight, you should find the exact wording of the law. How do they define improper? If it is by loudness only did the cop take an actual db reading with a machine, or was it merely his opinion.
Did he actually look under your car to see what was there? If not, how would he know whether or not it was improper - in the law is there a distinction between an improper muffler compared to one that is broken or not working properly?
Another consideration is probable cause - you should find out exactly how loud your exhaust is compared to what the law says you are allowed. If your db ratings are in fact within the limits, and the cop didn't use a db meter to measure your loudness, then why did he stop you other than his personal opinion.
Bottom line: who decides what is an improper exhaust and by what criteria? If it's based on an actual db reading and the cop didn't take one, you will not be found guilty in court because the officer has no evidence except his opinion.
In court, your opinion is supposed to have the same equal value as the cops unless they can impeach you in some way.
Sorry for rambling - first step is you need to find out what the law says and how they define the thing you are charged with.
Where did they get you at? They pulled me over for being loud at the end of ec row by lasalle and in Essex.
I don't know if its worth fighting. It's a $110 fine. It was the undercover camaro that got me heading eb ec row at Jefferson. I'm just worried it will affect my insurance. I'll have to look into a muffler.
(01-31-2013, 06:45 AM)girard.k Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if its worth fighting. It's a $110 fine. It was the undercover camaro that got me heading eb ec row at Jefferson. I'm just worried it will affect my insurance. I'll have to look into a muffler.
Just out of curiosity how is it
not worth fighting - it costs nothing but a bit of time; and if he didn't take any DB readings or look under your car, you could probably get the Crown Attorney to simply drop the charges before you even need to get into court.
What section of the Highway Traffic Act were you charge under - should say on the ticket HTA ???
(01-31-2013, 06:50 AM)ZTWsquared Wrote: [ -> ] (01-31-2013, 06:45 AM)girard.k Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if its worth fighting. It's a $110 fine. It was the undercover camaro that got me heading eb ec row at Jefferson. I'm just worried it will affect my insurance. I'll have to look into a muffler.
Just out of curiosity how is it not worth fighting - it costs nothing but a bit of time; and if he didn't take any DB readings or look under your car, you could probably get the Crown Attorney to simply drop the charges before you even need to get into court.
What section of the Highway Traffic Act were you charge under - should say on the ticket HTA ???
Unfortunately he did look under the car.
I'll take a look at the ticket when I get home from work. The ticket reads "improper muffler- motor vehicle" I'll get the act ref in a bit.
Highway traffic act of Ontario section 75(1)
That mother****** got me for 20 over on ec row when i was going up one of our on ramps. Thats bs a car cant be loud but a bike can.
I had basically the same 2.5" setup with SVT headers up front and I must admit that it was extremely loud. I could not hear my supercharger at WOT. It sounded like I was driving in an enclosed tunnel all the time.
One day I was driving on an open stretch of road and I noticed the popo in my rear view mirror. I was trying to be as gentle as possible on my throttle in order to not evoke the monster baaaaah from my exhaust, but to no avail the copper pulled me over. He asked if my exhaust was after market and told me that the point of the exhaust is to muffle the sound and my exhaust was not doing its job. I told him that I had a leaky gasket that I was going to fix.
He took my license and registration and went back to the cruiser to run his checks. He came back and told me that normally there is a $110 fine for that and he let me off with a warning.
I guess it helps that I had my wife and daughter in the car and that I have not had a ticket of any sort since 1987! (yah, I am old.)
Anyways, the loud exhaust was getting to me, so I had a Magnaflow resonator (similar to what they use on the FSWerks Stealth version of their 2.5" exhaust) welded into the straight section of pipe. Now my exhaust has a nice deep mellow tone to it and I can hear my SC when I am in boost.
(01-31-2013, 09:04 PM)dBlast Wrote: [ -> ]I had basically the same 2.5" setup with SVT headers up front and I must admit that it was extremely loud. I could not hear my supercharger at WOT. It sounded like I was driving in an enclosed tunnel all the time.
One day I was driving on an open stretch of road and I noticed the popo in my rear view mirror. I was trying to be as gentle as possible on my throttle in order to not evoke the monster baaaaah from my exhaust, but to no avail the copper pulled me over. He asked if my exhaust was after market and told me that the point of the exhaust is to muffle the sound and my exhaust was not doing its job. I told him that I had a leaky gasket that I was going to fix.
He took my license and registration and went back to the cruiser to run his checks. He came back and told me that normally there is a $110 fine for that and he let me off with a warning.
I guess it helps that I had my wife and daughter in the car and that I have not had a ticket of any sort since 1987! (yah, I am old.)
Anyways, the loud exhaust was getting to me, so I had a Magnaflow resonator (similar to what they use on the FSWerks Stealth version of their 2.5" exhaust) welded into the straight section of pipe. Now my exhaust has a nice deep mellow tone to it and I can hear my SC when I am in boost.
Good story. I see that you didn't post anything about the officer taking any decibel readings with a machine - which makes his judgement rather subjective. I suppose he may have known all along that he was giving you just a warning, but if not, how would that have gone in court without being able to say exactly how loud your exhaust was, and then be able to prove it.
That's like a cop charging you with speeding, but he didn't know how fast you were actually going.
Well judge - it looked like he was going really fast. How fast - well, I don't know exactly but it was for sure over the limit.
If it is about the loudness, there are ways to quantify that (I have a db machine myself - Calabogie has a 93 db max at 20 feet and if you don't meet it, you don't race) but in the absence of any verification of how loud your exhaust is, how can they prevail in court?
This is directly from the Highway and Traffic Act of Ontario:
"Noise, smoke, bells and horns
Muffler
75. (1) Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1)."
So if my car doesn't have a muffler and he did look under the car, I am in fact in violation of that section.
I'm going to do what dblast did and install a resonator. The officer could've given me a warning considering I've never been pulled over for it in the 5 years I've been driving it this way.
(01-31-2013, 11:27 PM)girard.k Wrote: [ -> ]This is directly from the Highway and Traffic Act of Ontario:
"Noise, smoke, bells and horns
Muffler
75. (1) Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1)."
So if my car doesn't have a muffler and he did look under the car, I am in fact in violation of that section.
I'm going to do what dblast did and install a resonator. The officer could've given me a warning considering I've never been pulled over for it in the 5 years I've been driving it this way.
Unless he put your car on a hoist or crawled fully underneath it, there is no way he could swear you didn't have a proper exhaust visually - add the resonator for sure, but you should fight the ticket IMHO.
I believe I have gotten the same ticket, for noise violation, it was about 1:00PM in the summer beautiful day had my music on and windows down, cop drove up beside me and seen what I looked like and soon after got behind me and pulled me over, gave me a ticket for sound violation for $110.00 dollars as well, he also treated me like a prick and gave me no respect cause I was 17, so I decided to fight it, and I won my case, and even if you don't win the worse thing you have to do is pay the ticket, and like someone said about "Loud Bikes" I also through that in the court room, if you are gonna ticket me when its not morning or night, you better be looking up on who owns a bike and give them a ticket as well.
Well a car with muffler means street racer for sure.
(02-01-2013, 09:14 AM)adamzx5 Wrote: [ -> ]Well a car with muffler means street racer for sure.
Hell rims on a car these days means "Street Racer" to cops lmao or even HIDS
In my youth, I did allot of stupid things to make my car grab attention. Whether it be paint, exhaust, lights, etc., most of it was for one reason, to grab the attention of babes. Most cops have grown up as well. Think if I saw or heard a 'punk', I'd bust his balls too. But mostly to hopefully knock some sense in the kid, and unless he was a jerk, wouldn't give him a ticket.
I've gotten my fair share of tickets...7 actually...5 speeding 3 other stupid s**t haha. So i've learned no matter the ticket fight it! the worst that will happen is you pay the ticket and it will not effect your insurance. The best way to win if you fight it is...throw a temp muffler on there, jimmy it up, take a couple pics...drive down to the court house and say "I got a ticket for improper muffler and fixed it immediately afterwords..." show the pics and i'd say you're almost guranteed to win
As for not being fair due to harleys and bikes running around with loud exhaust, I know here in Brantford, Cambridge, and Hamilton area's they are pulling bikes over like crazy now because so many car owners complained about it not being fair. But I do agree with everyone else it;s a BS ticket for sure. Some cops are just dumb and look for any excuse to "meet there quota".
The other thing is check the ticket over very thoroughly. I got nailed with a disobey stop sign ticket (which I clearly stopped cuz I knew the cop was watching...) and it turns out they made an error on the ticket and threw it out
the day I found that out it felt like winning the lottery haha.
Thats just my $0.02...hope it helps!
