GFXjamie,Dec 23 2008, 08:02 PM Wrote:sry havent been paying attention to this thread. incase u dont know, i am younger and dont tend to be friends with retiree's. also, the plant here hasnt been around long enough to of had ppl retire. i can see the point you are getting across. but the thing is, import auto makers are paying just as much as domestics. the problem with the domestics is the union /thread
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I've forwarded this info to my union "brothers"
They will be paying you a visit.
Enjoy.
Although I haven't been following this thread, until this morning. ( Working Overtime today, Union Job :huh: ) Irregardless of what the union workers are being paid, the real reasons, in my humble opinion, the "Big 3" are in trouble is due to a)waste of resources, paying their executives some ridiculous salaries
B) uninspired products, for uninspired consumers in their home market
c) the perception that import vehicles are "bulletproof' mechanically. If
they were, why do Import dealers have repair shops? :lol:
I read yesterday that 2008 was Lamborhgini best year in sales. It doesn't matter what the costs are if no one buys your product.
meford4u,Dec 23 2008, 11:01 PM Wrote:GFXjamie,Dec 23 2008, 08:02 PM Wrote:sry havent been paying attention to this thread. incase u dont know, i am younger and dont tend to be friends with retiree's. also, the plant here hasnt been around long enough to of had ppl retire. i can see the point you are getting across. but the thing is, import auto makers are paying just as much as domestics. the problem with the domestics is the union /thread
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I've forwarded this info to my union "brothers"
They will be paying you a visit.
Enjoy.
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I wouldn't worry about the union posse GFXJamie one of them will feel like he has to file a grievance for some reason and that will be stuck in red tape for a few years or there contract will expire and they will go on strike till they get a raise.
Laterz :)
meford4u,Dec 23 2008, 11:01 PM Wrote:GFXjamie,Dec 23 2008, 08:02 PM Wrote:sry havent been paying attention to this thread. incase u dont know, i am younger and dont tend to be friends with retiree's. also, the plant here hasnt been around long enough to of had ppl retire. i can see the point you are getting across. but the thing is, import auto makers are paying just as much as domestics. the problem with the domestics is the union /thread
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I've forwarded this info to my union "brothers"
They will be paying you a visit.
Enjoy.
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lol how old are u? 13? like seriously, the unions have f***ed everything up. you know it and so does everyone else. they have done so many moves to negotiate, now to the point where, if u get laid off, they pay you for a year until a position opens up and after that year you are officially terminated. you can then go on unemployment for a year and further sit on your ass and suck back more money. now how is this beneficial economically? seeing as how lay offs happen more often then you get laid it is useless to help the companies turn a profit.
GFXjamie,Dec 28 2008, 12:41 PM Wrote:meford4u,Dec 23 2008, 11:01 PM Wrote:GFXjamie,Dec 23 2008, 08:02 PM Wrote:sry havent been paying attention to this thread. incase u dont know, i am younger and dont tend to be friends with retiree's. also, the plant here hasnt been around long enough to of had ppl retire. i can see the point you are getting across. but the thing is, import auto makers are paying just as much as domestics. the problem with the domestics is the union /thread
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I've forwarded this info to my union "brothers"
They will be paying you a visit.
Enjoy.
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lol how old are u? 13? like seriously, the unions have f***ed everything up. you know it and so does everyone else. they have done so many moves to negotiate, now to the point where, if u get laid off, they pay you for a year until a position opens up and after that year you are officially terminated. you can then go on unemployment for a year and further sit on your ass and suck back more money. now how is this beneficial economically? seeing as how lay offs happen more often then you get laid it is useless to help the companies turn a profit.
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Watch what you say. Even if you were 100% correct in your statements, which you are not, you are stepping on my way of living and the livlihood of my family and many other huhdereds of thousands in Ontario.
Most are not as civilized as meford or myself or even Sparky.
GFXjamie,Dec 23 2008, 08:02 PM Wrote:incase u dont know, i am younger and dont tend to be friends with retiree's. also, the plant here hasnt been around long enough to of had ppl retire. i can see the point you are getting across. but the thing is, import auto makers are paying just as much as domestics. the problem with the domestics is the union /thread
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I didn't feel a need to comment on this earlier, and now I hold my tongue to stop laughing.
Read a little and live a lot.
you are taking it all completely wrong. first off, this is the internet. second of all, im not saying its any of the workers fault at all here. everyone needs to make money, its just that the unions have pushed and pulled so much over the years that it has made it very difficult for the big 3 to be major competitors and you cant disagree with that. i will agree they have many problems past this but it more of a hinderance if anything. take it how you want. 30+ yr old e thugs FTL
GFXjamie,Dec 28 2008, 05:47 PM Wrote:you are taking it all completely wrong. first off, this is the internet. second of all, im not saying its any of the workers fault at all here. everyone needs to make money, its just that the unions have pushed and pulled so much over the years that it has made it very difficult for the big 3 to be major competitors and you cant disagree with that. i will agree they have many problems past this but it more of a hinderance if anything. take it how you want. 30+ yr old e thugs FTL
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Let's talk facts jackass.
First. The senate asked that in order to get the cash, they wanted the UAW to take a cut in pay. The companies didn't want to renegotiate the contracts and didn't push for a change in the contracts at this time. What does that say? They are happy with the current status and don't feel that the workers or the union are the source of the issue. The labour cost in the price of a car is, on average about $1200 US. Shocking?
Second. The real issue is credit. Can't get credit and can't sell to a customer because they can't get credit. Simple, huh? Not the union at fault, the big banks and greedy American public for accepting loans for 1.5 times what their house was actually worth.
Third. The unions pushed us, the workers, to accept a contract where we took concessions. Not something we wanted to do nor accepted in Oakville where things were going well. Forsight into the future for the union? Maybe. But well excuted at this point in time they look like genious' as they have shown the public that we have given financially to the company and are willing to do our part.
Fourth. I am an e thug. Keep it up and I'll tell you all about your Mom last night.
do always get so e hurt over interweb discussions? thanks for showing me the light of day in the auto crisis, high fives all around and lets go out back for circle jerks after were done. im not going to sit here and argue with you any further. i am going to say u have very valid points and good support for them. now is thread is done is it not? or does some1 else have a reason why the big 3 are poor?
-sighs- The anti union mantra gets so old and tired...
Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe the workers were just putting together the cars that their bosses told them to build?
Workers can make all sorts of suggestions but ultimately the bosses decide by listening to "focus groups" (pun not intended) on what type of cars/trucks/whatevers to build and market.
Bear in mind too that the parts that these workers are handed to assemble are often made by the lowest possible bidder and so often times workers are left holding the bag if things go wrong.
It wasn't the workers that created such disasters as the Pinto back in the day or even the early North American FocusWhat needs to happen to Detriot's leadership needs to wake up NOW and realize that trying to squeeze the cost of a car to the bone by sacrificing quality is setting themselves up to fail and sitting on a particular segment is to risk falling into the ooze of irrelevancy and taking the North American economy with them in their stubbornness.
NefCanuck
Actually, herein lies the problem (or series of events and circumstances that leads to the problem):
Our aggressive new friend hit the nail on the head earlier: unless things have changed, CAW/UAW employees are paid for a YEAR when laid off and then they start receiving E.I. Now, unless someone who is informed would like to step forward and tell us about any timeline/money structuring that says that all workers do NOT get the same treatment... that is B.S. and a huge cost to incur at the time of layoffs. If all you're saving is the overhead cost of operating a plant instead of the cost saved (even at a rate of 6 months per year) in idling those workers, then there's almost no point to doing layoffs.
What the union has effectively done here is to turn the concept of being laid off from your job into a farce. There's no cost savings in the near term for the company doing the layoffs in terms of payroll.
So, what's the point of closing the doors when you're only recovering a fraction of your monthly outlay on a single plant's operations? Not much, but they'll do it anyways because they have to do SOMETHING.
Sure, I'll agree that there's probably too much manangement at each head office (GM Canada, GM USA) and at each brand office (Chev, GMC, Pontiac, Saturn, etc)... but again, give us structure and numbers before defending the unions with such a broad stroke.
Lay off some management and salaried guys - go for it! I bet it's more cost-effective to lay a whack of middle management / design / other staff off than it is to close a plant! But, let's get rid of the pork at the union levels as well.
*puts on flame-resistant suit*
Oh, and CanadaSVT - he's entitled to his opinion - good, bad or otherwise. Just because he doesn't embraces the "brotherhood" / drones mentality that seems to pervade the unions doesn't mean he has nothing good to say. He just chooses to... "work differently", as do I.
I was taught to fend for myself, and likely so was he. We do our work without the miles of red tape, the patriarchal structuring and all the "thug" mentality of being in a union. You work in a union. Different strokes for different folks. I don't agree with the "brutish" mentality of unions, but I understand that others embrace them.
GFX - chill a tad. There are better ways to get your point across here than blindly firing back. Trust me, I know. :lol:
GFXjamie,Dec 28 2008, 09:48 PM Wrote:do always get so e hurt over interweb discussions? thanks for showing me the light of day in the auto crisis, high fives all around and lets go out back for circle jerks after were done. im not going to sit here and argue with you any further. i am going to say u have very valid points and good support for them. now is thread is done is it not? or does some1 else have a reason why the big 3 are poor?
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hey untill you actually make a living and support yourself and have your car in YOUR OWN name maybe now is the time that less is more....... Until that time is here and your invite to the big ppl table, why don't you just go back to ur mommy's tit???
NOS2Go4Me,Dec 29 2008, 07:15 AM Wrote:Our aggressive new friend hit the nail on the head earlier: unless things have changed, CAW/UAW employees are paid for a YEAR when laid off and then they start receiving E.I. [right][snapback]278846[/snapback][/right]
Actually, that's not true at all; that's misinformation that's perpetuated by the media and anti-union know-it-alls.
CAW:
The TRUTH is that between EI and SUB we get (IIRC seeing it's been 14 years since I collected either **see below**) 85% of our
take home pay THEN IT'S TAXED.
So this is how it breaks down:
Say (for rough numbers) on a 40 hour week a worker's
take-home (ie NET pay) pay is $1000.
Times 85% = $850
Minus 30% income tax = $595
You max out your weekly EI payment at $450ish (
by the way -- if you don't qualify for EI you don't get SUB either) And SUB picks up the other roughly $175.
So, you are getting the unemployment you are
entitled to anyways. The SUB gets funded by the company as a negotiated benefit; the company puts "x" amount into the fund for every man-hour worked.
So:
MYTH 1: Workers sit at home and still get paid. TRUTH: Laid off workers still lose at least $300 take home pay.
MYTH 2: The company has to pay all those workers. TRUTH: The company pays a small supplement (out of the total amount) with the majority of the compensation being picked up by EI.
**side note** It's been about 14 years since I have collected EI or SUB (And even then it was only for a couple of months). EVERY SINGLE YEAR since I've paid THE MAX EI (and CPP) contribution LIKE MOST autoworkers. SO every other person out there in every other profession: seasonal construction worker, educators, etc etc etc. receive MY money when they're sitting at home whether its via EI or from the $60G+ a year I pay in taxes.
UAW:
The "job banks" that everyone is up in arms over is a pool that laid off workers that the company is supposed to utilize either in the plants, for general work or public sevice. The company, of course, is also supposed to find work for them; but they can't be bothered because it's easier to let them sit than make the effort to send them to work.
DD1,Dec 29 2008, 08:06 AM Wrote:hey untill you actually make a living and support yourself and have your car in YOUR OWN name maybe now is the time that less is more....... Until that time is here and your invite to the big ppl table, why don't you just go back to ur mommy's tit???
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first off, i make a living for myself, i pay 100% of anything relating to my car. i drive 40,000 kms a year and can afford to pay for the gas prices when 91 was over 1.40. i am 19 years old. i am an arogant son of a bitch and i know it. but hey, atleast i wasnt the only one who was "misinformed" about the union bs. but you are also on the union side so everything you say is one sided towards them. you cant spell facts with choosing a side here. just my 0.02$ cuz i can clearly afford it. and BTW with regards to your comment on my mothers tit, i havent seen or talked to my mother in 6 years, but i will however keep sucking on your moms tit, tastes like vanilla in the mornings ;)
im having far to much fun with this. btw this is an internet discussion, im not in any way harming your way of living. you are mentally retarded if you take this as anything other then a opinion and point of view.
not my way of living I am in a field where I am very very secured and yes Very overpaid LOL......
Sometimes in depth discussion need some maturity that only can come with age, I know I can't spell tell me something I don't know good thing I do not work in a library. Just remember the next time your too lazy to take the stairs...... Your trusting everything to me by taking vertical transportation ;)
EDM class A? im i have my EDM-T and im going for EDM-E for handicap lifting devices then my class A if i want. anyways, is there anything more to contribute to this thread or is it a pointless cause?
GFXjamie,Dec 29 2008, 01:05 PM Wrote:EDM class A? im i have my EDM-T and im going for EDM-E for handicap lifting devices then my class A if i want. anyways, is there anything more to contribute to this thread or is it a pointless cause?
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I have class A for 10yrs since I wrote when I was 21yrs old
My father executive Presdient concord brampton, Macel from savaria owns it but dad runs it since Marcel bought my father out about 2-3 years ago, and use to own Richardson Access in London I did the little lifts for 5 yrs before moving on.
theres like a 30+ dollar an hour difference between to two you might want to think about that....... Who you working for now....
If I remember right the "E" is incline and stairchairs Your "A" will supercee'd everything. I had the E than the A...
Sparky:
Good show on the numbers. If nothing else, that's what this discussion is supposed to be about: tearing down the layers of obfuscation and misninformation and putting it all out there.
I'm no happier about seasonal workers collecting EI than you are - I work my "52" weeks a year and am paid accordingly. We, too, have been hit by layoffs here nad I know that there was compensation paid out with the layoffs.
In a manner of speaking, I assume this "SUB" is a supplementary payment above and beyond EI. So, to have your earnings taxed (it's been like 9+ years since I pulled EI) doesn't seem unreasonable when you're getting paid 85% of your pay to sit at home. It might not be what you want to do, but getting paid 85% of your gross to do nothing isn't a bad gig. It could be worse... it could be welfare.
So Myth #1, bottom line: workers get 85% of their gross take-home. Gotcha. And they still get taxed. It's a payhcheque, so yeah - you'll get taxed!
Myth #2: while the amount paid out is less than we were initially led to believe (misconception, media or otherwise)... yes, they're still being paid by the company, outside of direct E.I. The fact it was negotiated in a contract doesn't make it any easier on the company or have any less bearing at the time they need to count their nickels and dimes. 15% of a paycheque (or whatever it ends up being) for 10,000+ workers for a year is still a significant chunk of cash, even taken at the monthly level. When you don't have the revenue coming in, it's significant.
What I would be really interested in knowing is what percentage of the 85% is E.I. and what percentage is SUB. :)
A cost is a cost is a cost, regardless of whether it was negotiated or if it's even mandated by the government (not that it was, just saying is all). No matter how you come around to spending the cash, spending the cash when you don't have any isn't a smart scenario and obviously weighs on the company's debt load.