What is there out there for beginner drivers? I have zero training in anything minus any self taught basics. And by basics, I mean first nature reactions.
I'm not goign to go ahead and claim I've slid, flicked or spun out my focus and that it makes me a good driver because it doesn't.
I really, really want to know where I can get an actual education in advanced driving. What are the certifications available?
Most of all, what places are friendly to beginners and where can beginners go to drive their cars?
Just what ever you do, dont take advice from DDI or Nick
Mystake,Mar 1 2010, 02:24 AM Wrote:What is there out there for beginner drivers? I have zero training in anything minus any self taught basics. And by basics, I mean first nature reactions.
I'm not goign to go ahead and claim I've slid, flicked or spun out my focus and that it makes me a good driver because it doesn't.
I really, really want to know where I can get an actual education in advanced driving. What are the certifications available?
Most of all, what places are friendly to beginners and where can beginners go to drive their cars?
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Well , there is the SVTOA Redline that I have attended for two years now
http://www.svtoaontrack.ca/ , or this one that I plan on taking this year
http://www.carcontrolschool.com/wordpress/ . I'm sure there are many others , but these come to mind right now .
Mystake,Mar 1 2010, 01:24 AM Wrote:What is there out there for beginner drivers? I have zero training in anything minus any self taught basics. And by basics, I mean first nature reactions.
I'm not goign to go ahead and claim I've slid, flicked or spun out my focus and that it makes me a good driver because it doesn't.
I really, really want to know where I can get an actual education in advanced driving. What are the certifications available?
Most of all, what places are friendly to beginners and where can beginners go to drive their cars?
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Don't listen to Poulo...he really IS an idiot and a weird guy in a way :lol:
I've been to more track days then he ever drove his car.
In the summer I usully go out with Touge guys (I try to come out at least 7-10 track days per season) sometimes they have instractors there for aditional cost.
Also there are some winter lapping days in Cayuga now....I missed one Saturday :(
They offer lessons for $150 from 10am-4pm when they do have these events there now.
SVTOA is another good even but I've never been to one. Will be comming to this year though to pump up some Mustangs :P
Gabriel keep me informed about that "carcontrols" school, I'd come out with you.
PM 2001ZTS I know he's had some training at various facilities.
well if you don't mind paying a little bit of money BMW has some really good driving courses available, and you'd get the chance to really drive the crap out of most of the fleet they use, not to mention they have some really advanced courses they'd train you on, and beginners are more then welcome, same with non bmw owners.
I can say I've had an entry class into police driving thanks in part to my uncle durring one of their courses they had for the public in texas, not to mention a winter driving course a few years ago, and that was really fun.
Frost__2001,Mar 1 2010, 01:17 PM Wrote:well if you don't mind paying a little bit of money BMW has some really good driving courses available, and you'd get the chance to really drive the crap out of most of the fleet they use, not to mention they have some really advanced courses they'd train you on, and beginners are more then welcome, same with non bmw owners.
I can say I've had an entry class into police driving thanks in part to my uncle durring one of their courses they had for the public in texas, not to mention a winter driving course a few years ago, and that was really fun.
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I've heard of them but they seem to be day long and that's it?
Frost__2001,Mar 1 2010, 02:17 PM Wrote:well if you don't mind paying a little bit of money BMW has some really good driving courses available, and you'd get the chance to really drive the crap out of most of the fleet they use, not to mention they have some really advanced courses they'd train you on, and beginners are more then welcome, same with non bmw owners.
I can say I've had an entry class into police driving thanks in part to my uncle durring one of their courses they had for the public in texas, not to mention a winter driving course a few years ago, and that was really fun.
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I belong to the Trillium Chapter of the BMW Club and we have 3 weekend sessions at the full Mosport track every year, plus we can attend the Ottawa Chapter's weekends at Calabogie and the NY Chapters weekends at Watkins Glen and others ... I did a total of 8 weekends last year and plan on at least that many this year. There is a beginners group, and if you show ability they will move you up to intermediate if there's space there.
The training is top notch and includes both classroom sessions and instructors in your car for at least eight 30 minute on-track sessions with you at the wheel, as well as time spent in the passenger seat of the instructors cars - some of which are awesome machines.
One of my instructors had a supercharged M6, another a Turbo 944, another a full blown Corvette race car (260kph at the end of the back straight) and another had a brand new Nissan GT-R ... plus myriad M3s, M5s etc - you get the idea.
Not cheap once you factor in hotel etc ... but absolutely an amazing way to spend a weekend.
ZTWsquared,Mar 1 2010, 07:08 PM Wrote:Frost__2001,Mar 1 2010, 02:17 PM Wrote:well if you don't mind paying a little bit of money BMW has some really good driving courses available, and you'd get the chance to really drive the crap out of most of the fleet they use, not to mention they have some really advanced courses they'd train you on, and beginners are more then welcome, same with non bmw owners.
I can say I've had an entry class into police driving thanks in part to my uncle durring one of their courses they had for the public in texas, not to mention a winter driving course a few years ago, and that was really fun.
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I belong to the Trillium Chapter of the BMW Club and we have 3 weekend sessions at the full Mosport track every year, plus we can attend the Ottawa Chapter's weekends at Calabogie and the NY Chapters weekends at Watkins Glen and others ... I did a total of 8 weekends last year and plan on at least that many this year. There is a beginners group, and if you show ability they will move you up to intermediate if there's space there.
The training is top notch and includes both classroom sessions and instructors in your car for at least eight 30 minute on-track sessions with you at the wheel, as well as time spent in the passenger seat of the instructors cars - some of which are awesome machines.
One of my instructors had a supercharged M6, another a Turbo 944, another a full blown Corvette race car (260kph at the end of the back straight) and another had a brand new Nissan GT-R ... plus myriad M3s, M5s etc - you get the idea.
Not cheap once you factor in hotel etc ... but absolutely an amazing way to spend a weekend.
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You left out the "interesting" part , such as the fee for a session like this . I heard with BMW club stuff doesn't come cheap .
Gabriel,
Thing is, if I'm going to put myself and my car into a high performance school, I'd want to be assured that the instructors knew what the heck they were actually doing :P
S'why I'm willing to "pay to play" as it were by going to the SVTOA event (I may do a BMW event this year too, depends really how much the raise actually is at work this year and whether it will be retro to last year April as most of our others have been)
NefCAnuck
do the BMW ones let you bring your own bimmer?
NefCanuck,Mar 1 2010, 09:27 PM Wrote:Gabriel,
Thing is, if I'm going to put myself and my car into a high performance school, I'd want to be assured that the instructors knew what the heck they were actually doing :P
S'why I'm willing to "pay to play" as it were by going to the SVTOA event (I may do a BMW event this year too, depends really how much the raise actually is at work this year and whether it will be retro to last year April as most of our others have been)
NefCAnuck
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Now you sound like Nik with "pay to play" :lol: . Of course you got to pay , but is a matter of how much are you willing / can pay , that depends on everybody's budget / pocket . You said it yourself , "if" , "raise" , etc . With me is a little more simple , I am self employed so there is no raise , it's more a matter of how many jobs I can get and do . So that's why I will not see Calabogie anytime soon , it's around $350 per day , it's far from me , so I am not willing to pay that price yet . With SVTOA is a different story , it's $425 for 2 days and instructors , good deal I think . I am tempted to go to Watkins Glen this year for about the same price . There are many " temptations" and plans for this year , we'll see how much I will be able to accomplish . :) The event is hosted by Joe , the little guy ( instructor ) driving a loud red Mustang 5.0 two years ago at DDT .I like to think that the ones who got to be instructors should know their stuff .I couldn't find the post where Ken told me last year how much is to attend the BMW club at Mosport .
Gabriel,Mar 1 2010, 09:52 PM Wrote:Now you sound like Nik with "pay to play" :lol: . Of course you got to pay , but is a matter of how much are you willing / can pay , that depends on everybody's budget / pocket . You said it yourself , "if" , "raise" , etc . With me is a little more simple , I am self employed so there is no raise , it's more a matter of how many jobs I can get and do . So that's why I will not see Calabogie anytime soon , it's around $350 per day , it's far from me , so I am not willing to pay that price yet . With SVTOA is a different story , it's $425 for 2 days and instructors , good deal I think . I am tempted to go to Watkins Glen this year for about the same price . There are many " temptations" and plans for this year , we'll see how much I will be able to accomplish . :) The event is hosted by Joe , the little guy ( instructor ) driving a loud red Mustang 5.0 two years ago at DDT .I like to think that the ones who got to be instructors should know their stuff .I couldn't find the post where Ken told me last year how much is to attend the BMW club at Mosport .
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Oh of course each situation is different. I was just pointing out that by spending the coin you'll get the things that some people see as
extras that I frankly see as necessities (like in car and classroom training) for beginner drivers.
As many events as I'll ever attend though I can't see many events letting me drive solo no matter how many events I do and how much my skills improve.
I mean, realistically what do you think most instructors think when they see me, NVM the left side gas pedal in the car? But that's okay, for me it's about the learning as much as it is the bombing around the track :lol:
NefCanuck
Mystake,Mar 1 2010, 10:32 PM Wrote:do the BMW ones let you bring your own bimmer?
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You drive what you want - there's no requirement to even own a BMW to join the club - associate membership is about $60 per year ... and the weekends are $425 for the session ... if you sign up for all three you get a discount.
The tech inspections are pretty rigid - especially in the States - and so you'll have to make sure your car is in good working order - they'll even measure the amount of pad you have left as well as the thickness of your rotors in addition to the usual tires, suspension and stuff. Additionally they also require a signed statement from a licensed mechanic - but my guy, who knows my car really well, simply signs it and sends me on my way.
In the BMW Club, even in the beginner category the cars are fairly quick ... and now that I've moved up to intermediate solo where the cars and the drivers are even faster, I've had to invest in upgrades to the suspension and brakes, as well as track rims and tires to remain competitive.
I've been told that I would be in the expert category except for the fact that my car simply can't keep up in the straights ... and so I'm hoping that my new SC track car will fix that problem this year. LOL - all it takes is money Gabriel.
I choose to stay in a motel at Mosport for one night (I could drive home Saturday night I guess and go back Sunday) and of course Calabogie and Watkins Glen requires two nights at a Motel as the day starts real early Saturday morning.
With your foot to the floor for basically two days you go through gas pretty quick, so that becomes a measurable expense, as well as meals and "beverages" when the drivers and instructors get together in the evenings ... so all tolled you could be looking at 650 to 750 for the weekend, plus whatever you may invest in getting the car up to speed so to speak.
Hope this adds the kind of info you're looking for.
Cheers - Ken.
Good info, thanks Ken.
Is there a chance just to come and watch? Or are they worried about people taking photos?
ZTWsquared,Mar 2 2010, 01:20 AM Wrote:Mystake,Mar 1 2010, 10:32 PM Wrote:do the BMW ones let you bring your own bimmer?
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I've been told that I would be in the expert category except for the fact that my car simply can't keep up in the straights ... and so I'm hoping that my new SC track car will fix that problem this year. LOL - all it takes is money Gabriel.
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C'mon now Ken , there's also some poor folk out there :D
NikiterZTS,Mar 2 2010, 08:55 AM Wrote:Good info, thanks Ken.
Is there a chance just to come and watch? Or are they worried about people taking photos?
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No problem coming and watching, and they don't have a problem with cameras ... to enter the track area you'll have to sign a waiver at the front gate, but I think that's s.o.p. for any track event.
a great way to learn basic car control that's a lot cheaper than doing track days, and perfect for the beginner are auto-x..
I know within the GTA they have one day intro instruction to performance driving and it costs maybe $100 for the day... and you do it in a parking lot (ie, exhibition place), with cones.
It's fun, fairly cheap, and it's a safe way to learn the basics of your car -- learning it's limits, how to fix under/oversteer, etc.
I'll find the sched and post when I get a chance.
are there any levels of certification that can be acquired?
Mystake,Mar 4 2010, 12:58 AM Wrote:are there any levels of certification that can be acquired?
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I think for starts you need to come and just learn your car. See how it behaves in stockish form. Do this at least once.
I did and now I spend even more money one my track tires, brakes ect. :unsure: