FocusCanada Forums

Well I have an issue (err I think i may have an issue)

- January this year we purchased it
- August the thermostat housing let go
(had it replaced at Concept Ford, New o-ring, coupler, flange, coupler bolts, sleeve bolts, thermostat.. as it was already there I ordered a full coolant flush)
- 2 weeks ago she spat out a code P0401
asked ford they handed me a $790 list of parts to be repaired(nearly decked the service rep) ordered a Delta Pressure Flow of Exhaust Sensor and installed it.. left the check engine light on and it turned itself off 2 days later

(Side note: this vehicle was leased by State Farm Insurance as a Rep vehicle, State farm drives the leased vehicles for 100,000-110,000kms only.. mine was purchased at 108,608.. upon checking the OASIS and all the paperwork that was included they always had the car repaired and oilchanged AT a dealer)


since day 1 the car spits (not gush's) a nice patch of water out of the exhaust long drive, short drive doesn't matter it spits the same amount I notice it especially when I back up to a curb

asked Ford about it I got the typical BS response you need a new headgasket as yours is leaking into the cylinders (which its not)

I took it home and threw on a cylinder compression gauge I got the following reading
Cyl 1 - 173psi
Cyl 2 - 168psi
Cyl 3 - 167psi
Cyl 4 - 170psi

I left each cylinder for 5 min and they all dropped between a half lb to a single pound ( no blown headgasket no problems with valve seats )

This vehicle have NEVER leaked a drop of oil and does NOT burn any whatsoever 1 month ago a scribed a VERY fine line with a file (just a mark not actually filing it) on the dipstick and the oil today is still at the EXACT mark
other then the thermostat housing failure its NEVER lost coolant not even a drop

inspection of the heater core yielded a nearly new looking core, no damage no debris, and from the settled dust no leaks

but heres the catch it DID start to overheat I was on my way to Scarberia (yeah I know its misspelled but driving there is like driving to Siberia), anyways I saw the needle creep it was almost at the top normal mark so I darted off the bridge (I was on the 401 on the overpass) onto the shoulder where the offramp was and shut it down, popped the hood and no smell of anything burning, the rad hoses were normally pressured but not hot to the touch ( upper and lower) I did turn the key the needle was a little lower but still up there and noticed the fan refusing to start even with AC on so I belted the ambient coil and voala they started after that the car stayed normal as we drove the remainder of the way with both heat and ac on we did notice the heat even on full hot on a warm day not that warm, got the car home and rechecked the ambient coil and discovered that the left ( driver side) finger that holds the fan assembly to the rad had broken so the fans were flopping.. I stole the fan assembly off another focus i have and threw it in and after that the fans operate normally and the car hasn't overheated but I do notice the temp sensor is now really active

my carputer shows that its operating in near flawless condition other then a lazy 02 but upon checking ALL of my focuses have the same lazy O2 including my new F-150

the cars exhaust has NO smell to it, NO smoke after drives or starts in the morning, doesn't have a problem cranking but the water out of the exhaust is persistent in the morning after a few drives after all day driving it just keeps spitting the amount never changes

the car went in just before the DPFE and blew all 0 in the 0.01-0.09 range on emissions

Im stumped this is the ONLY focus that does this...

This is the Focus in question and it seems its a different Zetec then my Gold ones ( and most of the parts are not interchangeable I found out when I tried to find the DPFE in the normal firewall location

Year/Make/Model: 2002 FORD FOCUS SE/SE COMFORT
Body Style: STATION WAGON
Engine Type: 2.0L L4 PFI DOHC
Manufactured In: UNITED STATES

here is the pullup of one of my Gold ones

Year/Make/Model: 2001 FORD FOCUS SE
Body Style: STATION WAGON
Engine Type: 2.0L L4 SFI DOHC
Manufactured In: UNITED STATES

P.S.
Carfax is a load of crap I just ran the vin (the one just above) which is a Writeoff car (wagon 1) sold back with a signed report that it will NOT be repaired due to the seperation of the frames behind the passenger wheel which is irreparable..
The insurance company already notified the Ministry of Transportation Ontario that the vehicle is not and NEVER will be roadworthy, we had a report come from MOT stating the same yet carfax just blew out a PASS as in the vehicles NEVER been in an accident and is NOT a Lemon vehicle

yet when I check a free online lemon list its listed there as not roadworthy :P


your input on the spitting issue will help me as I dun wanna damage the engine if something IS wrong and I have to fix it

---
also I found the cars Fuel economy shot through the roof when I ran the car with the P0401 code (Low/No High exhaust pressure/bad DPFE Sensor) when I replaced it it dropped back to its normal usage, there was a stumble on low RPM where if your coasting through a parking lot with your foot barely pressing the accelerator it would mis, and hiccup yet if you punched it it took off

I also found the results funny on checking P0401 it mentioned that the sensor was reading low pressure but not once did it refer to the DPFE as the problem ITSELF


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P0401 - EGR Flow Insufficient Detected The EGR system is monitored during steady state driving conditions while the EGR is commanded on. The test fails when the signal from the DPF EGR sensor indicates that EGR flow is less than the desired minimum. Vacuum supply
EGR valve stuck closed
EGR valve leaks vacuum
EGR flow path restricted
EGRVR circuit shorted to PWR
VREF open to D.P.F. EGR sensor
D.P.F. EGR sensor downstream hose off or plugged
EGRVR circuit open to PCM
VPWR open to EGRVR solenoid
D.P.F. EGR sensor hoses both off
D.P.F. EGR sensor hoses reversed
Damaged EGR orifice tube
Damaged EGRVR solenoid
Damaged PCM
Perform KOER self-test and look for DTC P1408 as an indication of a hard fault. If P1408 is not present, look for contamination, restrictions, leaks, and intermittents.

I don't understand what you mean by spits out the long drive and short drive ?

All my zetecs always left a puddle by the exhaust when I started it up. My S/C'd more so than the others.

I can walk outside start the car and it will spit water out of the exhaust, I can drive it for 5 hours and it still spits I can drive it all day and when I park somewhere you can see spit/spray (not in mist) you can see a volly of wet dots on the ground from water in the exhaust

if I go out and start my Gold wagon it doesn't spit.. I can drive it around and it doesn't drop water out of its exhaust ( even when it sits for a few weeks )

you are worried about water comming out of your exhaust? water is a byproduct of perfect combustion...

xXCMGXx,Nov 1 2009, 12:06 PM Wrote:you are worried about water comming out of your exhaust? water is a byproduct of perfect combustion...
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hrmm ok but I never thought constant spray is normal I've had cars do the old 1/4 within a half hour of starting and never do it again till the car sits

I take a few shots with my camera today when i leave for work

Ok so your overheating problem could be something to do with air in cooling system. Open the rad, turn on heater to HOT, and then run the car until it warms up with the rad cap open. Add antifreeze to top it up.

When the exhaust pipe is cold, water vapor will condense as the exhaust cools on the pipe. After the pipe heats up, the vapor will not condense.

Remember that the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel produces both carbon dioxide AND water vapor as a normal part of the process. All gasoline engines produce water vapor and all water vapor condenses if the exhaust pipe is cool.

But if you are still having lot of water come out when engine is warm then it could be something to do with where you live. Is it humid where you live?

my focus spits water all the time im not worried about it

After you purge any air from your cooling system using the method in Mo Focus's post above, keep an eye on your coolant reservoir. If you were in fact leaking coolant through the head gasket in the amount you're described you would notice it drop fairly quickly.

Not only that, most head gasket leaks don't act like that anyways.

Most commonly;

- A leak between the coolant passages and the oil passages result in water in your oil making your oil resemble a chocolate milkshake and not as much oil in your coolant (some but not a lot. This is because once the engine heats up the steam forces its way into the oil. not the other way around. Water pressure>oil pressure

- A leak from your coolant to your combustion chamber usually will force combustion gasses into your coolant system making it either overheat or overpressure. Combustion gas pressure> water pressure.

mo_focus,Nov 1 2009, 08:06 PM Wrote:Ok so your overheating problem could be something to do with air in cooling system. Open the rad, turn on heater to HOT, and then run the car until it warms up with the rad cap open. Add antifreeze to top it up.

When the exhaust pipe is cold, water vapor will condense as the exhaust cools on the pipe. After the pipe heats up, the vapor will not condense.

Remember that the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel produces both carbon dioxide AND water vapor as a normal part of the process. All gasoline engines produce water vapor and all water vapor condenses if the exhaust pipe is cool.

But if you are still having lot of water come out when engine is warm then it could be something to do with where you live. Is it humid where you live?
[right][snapback]296652[/snapback][/right]

Im not that far from you for my General area Im by 401/Trafalgar :)

thats the thing even if I drive it for a few hours it still spits water

OAC_Sparky,Nov 2 2009, 03:16 AM Wrote:After you purge any air from your cooling system using the method in Mo Focus's post above, keep an eye on your coolant reservoir. If you were in fact leaking coolant through the head gasket in the amount you're described you would notice it drop fairly quickly.

Not only that, most head gasket leaks don't act like that anyways.

Most commonly;

- A leak between the coolant passages and the oil passages result in water in your oil making your oil resemble a chocolate milkshake and not as much oil in your coolant (some but not a lot. This is because once the engine heats up the steam forces its way into the oil. not the other way around.  Water pressure>oil pressure

- A leak from your coolant to your combustion chamber usually will force combustion gasses into your coolant system making it either overheat or overpressure. Combustion gas pressure> water pressure.
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from the day I bought it till I found the Thermostat housing leaking its never had an issue with loosing coolant even from the day we picked it up till now the coolant is ALWAYS between hot and cold ( if i let it sit overnight in the morning the res is slightly above the top mark

as for the day it DID Heatup (I technically cannot refer to it as OVERHEAT because the car was stopped just as it nearly hit the upper normal mark on the gauge) the coolant overflow was full but not to the point that it was at the filler neck

as for the oil its clear when i check it (note: a little dirty from neglecting an oilchange ) but not cloudy whatsoever

as for the pressure every so often I pop the hood and check the fluids/check the hoses etc.. as im not the only one driving the car I don't want whos driving it to be stranded so the day it did creep up as mentioned it pulled over immediately popped the hood and checked the hoses to my surprise both upper and lower pipes were not that hot, I could hold my hand around it for any amount of time without burning my hand.. I set my hand on the rocker cover it was warm, the heads were alot hotter but nothing that showed it actually WAS overheating.. the engine was running flawless, no ticks(aside to the all so known injector ticks)/knocks and drove beautifully

when the car was stopped the needle was hovering about here
(this is not the exact cluster, this cluster is my new KM to Miles one for my project car

228,000 kms, and still spitting... :D I drive mostly highway, so I really notice it when I take it around town. I found it got worse after I put on my MBRP, since it appears it doesn't heat up as fast.

o.o oh my god thats alot not even my project one is that high.. and yeah i started my project wagon (Wagon 2) up after sitting for 2 months and it never spit once ( was moving it from the driveway into the garage for winter )

Mileage
Wagon 1 - 147,000km
Wagon 2 - 219,000km (soon to be reset to wagon 1's mileage but in US miles aswell)
Wagon 3 - 131,000km

yet when I took wagon 3 she spat as usual

<.< >.> umm what a MBRP

<.< >.>

Feral,Nov 2 2009, 05:20 PM Wrote:o.o oh my god thats alot not even my project one is that high.. and yeah i started my project wagon (Wagon 2) up after sitting for 2 months and it never spit once ( was moving it from the driveway into the garage for winter )

Mileage
Wagon 1 - 147,000km
Wagon 2 - 219,000km (soon to be reset to wagon 1's mileage but in US miles aswell)
Wagon 3 - 131,000km

yet when I took wagon 3 she spat as usual

<.< >.> umm what a MBRP
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An MBRP is an aftermarket exhaust very popular around here.

http://www.mbrp.com

euro_zx5,Nov 2 2009, 08:44 PM Wrote:An MBRP is an aftermarket exhaust very popular around here.

http://www.mbrp.com
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ahhhh :) yeah nice setup but not my style I'm not a chrome person

if they offered that in black and dual I may think about it but I'm gunna have to get a custom Catback eventually for my project car but I want it dual and not protruding the custom fabbed wagon bumper im designing with someone XD

My body guy is going to take a Sedan kit and modify the rear bumper cutting both the kit/stock bumper in half use the upper stock and lower Bodykit since no company ever made a decent kit for the wagon

this is the Kit I want but the rears will be modified as I don;t like the center exhaust they will be relocated

(Modified as for the Hideaway hitch thats installed so i can haul my JetSki's)