OAC_Sparky,Dec 7 2006, 12:18 PM Wrote:oldeguy,Dec 7 2006, 11:10 AM Wrote:How many of us would want a Impreza wrc sti? Ford could do the same. Basic Focus all the way to the wrc champ.
[right][snapback]219005[/snapback][/right]
Like I said. Many of us "want" stuff we're not willing to pay for.
Sadly, Ford in North America is not viewed the same way as an STI is.
[right][snapback]219006[/snapback][/right]
basic impreza starts at 24,000. I think. Make the Focus AWD, market it properly
oldeguy,Dec 7 2006, 01:06 PM Wrote:OAC_Sparky,Dec 7 2006, 12:18 PM Wrote:oldeguy,Dec 7 2006, 11:10 AM Wrote:How many of us would want a Impreza wrc sti? Ford could do the same. Basic Focus all the way to the wrc champ.
[right][snapback]219005[/snapback][/right]
Like I said. Many of us "want" stuff we're not willing to pay for.
Sadly, Ford in North America is not viewed the same way as an STI is.
[right][snapback]219006[/snapback][/right]
basic impreza starts at 24,000. I think. Make the Foc
us AWD, market it properly
[right][snapback]219009[/snapback][/right]
Do you honestly think people who drive the focus would be interested in that? The market interested in that stuff would be so small it wouldn't be worth it.
OAC_Sparky,Dec 7 2006, 12:26 PM Wrote:FocusGuy7476,Dec 7 2006, 12:56 AM Wrote:I'll stay loyal to ford if they make such a move.
[right][snapback]218955[/snapback][/right]
Loyalty is one thing. Would you actually buy one, if a Focus cost $32G?
That is the question.
[right][snapback]218962[/snapback][/right]
Yes, I would.
Your going by what it would cost in Europe to sell a Focus here in North America. Unless you have some info from the new CEO about how they are going to price the cars/vehicles that they bring over from Europe. your basically guessing that it would cost $32G to get a MK2 Focus here to sell, when the current MK1 is selling for $21G.
I'd rather see a company that cares that they not be the laughing stock of the industry, and see them be successful, even if it costs a bit more and your a smaller player in the industry.
Ford as a whole needs to change their way of thinking and think that they have finally done that with a change in the CEO that realizes and sees the problem. I don't see a current vehicle in Fords NA line up that I could see myself driving, which is really sad if I do say so myself.
FocusGuy7476,Dec 7 2006, 01:57 PM Wrote:OAC_Sparky,Dec 7 2006, 12:26 PM Wrote:FocusGuy7476,Dec 7 2006, 12:56 AM Wrote:I'll stay loyal to ford if they make such a move.
[right][snapback]218955[/snapback][/right]
Loyalty is one thing. Would you actually buy one, if a Focus cost $32G?
That is the question.
[right][snapback]218962[/snapback][/right]
Yes, I would.
Your going by what it would cost in Europe to sell a Focus here in North America. Unless you have some info from the new CEO about how they are going to price the cars/vehicles that they bring over from Europe. your basically guessing that it would cost $32G to get a MK2 Focus here to sell, when the current MK1 is selling for $21G.
I'd rather see a company that cares that they not be the laughing stock of the industry, and see them be successful, even if it costs a bit more and your a smaller player in the industry.
Ford as a whole needs to change their way of thinking and think that they have finally done that with a change in the CEO that realizes and sees the problem. I don't see a current vehicle in Fords NA line up that I could see myself driving, which is really sad if I do say so myself.
[right][snapback]219027[/snapback][/right]
it costs more to make a focus in europe than it does here. The focus in europe probably has much tighter Quality control...meaning more $$. Ford Na doesn't know what the word quality is. :P :lol:
So yeah, if you were to implement the quality control that eeurope has here, it will cost much more to make a focus.
And just becuae you and I would buy a 32K well optioned focus, doesnt mean everybody else will....Do you know how many times I explain to my freinds why I hate fwd in the winter? they dont care, they just want a car with wheels to get them from point a to point b, nevermind what kind of turbo, has awd or not, etc. Liek Anthony said, the majority dont really care.
Take my boss for example.....they just bought a 03 focus zx5 for thier kids, but when they 1st went to the dealership, they were thinking of buying new. When they had their model & options picked out, the salemen gave them the final price, and the 1st thing out of her mouth, was "I can buy a Mustang coupe for that". She's an average customer....and she couldnt understand why the focus was so much as it is now. Imagine if they bring a more $$ focus to the market. :ph34r:
adding to this and not being able to read the news from the link posted in the 1st post,
Ford Could sell the Focus and the Fiesta here and make a profit on them and sell them for fall less then $32g (focus) and under $20g (fiesta) because they all ready make the Fiesta in South America, and the same with the Focus, hell they all ready are doing that quite well in Mexico, and it should not be to hard to bring them here as Mexico is selling them well unchanged from that of the European Market version.
If anything they moved the Focus price into the mid $20's and and launched the Fiesta to take over the Focus Current place in the "sub" compact market it should not be a problem as every is hyping on about.
anyone not willing to pay $30g for a focus is fine and entitled to their opinions but really with the Relyability of the Global Focus compaired to the currrent North American only version it's far better in quality in all areas and makes the North American version look like the Tempo.
Personally I would pay the extra mony for a truely Global focus for 2 reasons, one it's better quality for the money then any Japanese Brand or Eurpean brand with loads of choices, and Two I need a larger car and I don't want a Gas Guzzler SUV or CUV, I'd rather have a wagon, but it looks like I'll be looking at a an SUV Because I Still dislike the American Facelift Focus 1.2 & soon 1.3 in 2008.
FocusGuy7476,Dec 7 2006, 12:57 PM Wrote:Your going by what it would cost in Europe to sell a Focus here in North America. Unless you have some info from the new CEO about how they are going to price the cars/vehicles that they bring over from Europe. your basically guessing that it would cost $32G to get a MK2 Focus here to sell, when the current MK1 is selling for $21G. [right][snapback]219027[/snapback][/right]
There's a reason that the current Focus is selling at $21G. It's not guesswork.
Go to
http://www.ford.de and price out a Focus.
Just for kicks.
Ihr Fahrzeug
Ford Focus
Limousine 3-türig
Ford Focus Fun X Editionsmodell
2,0 l Duratec, 107 kW (145 PS)
5-Gang-Getriebe
Grundpreis
ââ¬19.165,00
Now, I'm not German, but this is a base-base 3-door hatch, with a 2L Manual (they have smaller engines available, but everything else is bottom end). No stereo upgrades, wheels, leather, paint, navigation. No AWD. Absolutely dick.
ââ¬19.165,00 .
One Euro = $1.53 CAD, so that's $29,322 CAD.
That's not including shipping, if they don't make it here.
So do the research instead of talking crap about "if I know the new CEO". I've been with this company 17 years, 10 months longer than him. I've been here long enough to know that if you want the EuroFocus here for $21G you'll have to get rid of $7G+ worth of content. Which means 2000 Focus all over again.
Flofocus,Dec 7 2006, 01:04 PM Wrote:And just becuae you and I would buy a 32K well optioned focus, doesnt mean everybody else will....Do you know how many times I explain to my freinds why I hate fwd in the winter? they dont care, they just want a car with wheels to get them from point a to point b, nevermind what kind of turbo, has awd or not, etc. Liek Anthony said, the majority dont really care.
[right][snapback]219028[/snapback][/right]
Bingo!
Frost__2001,Dec 7 2006, 01:08 PM Wrote:Personally I would pay the extra mony for a truely Global focusÃÂ ...[right][snapback]219030[/snapback][/right]
It's worth it, but again, it's the mindset of the market that dictates the sale.
Yeah... I forgot about the size issue (literally!) and that the Focus is seen as an intermediate overseas.
A lot of good ideas here and a lot of harsh but necessary reality as well. As it stands the Focus mk 1.5 is a hell of a value but it's also largely ignored by the media. Because of that, it languishes in fleet duties and carrying around your grandmother and her incontinent uncle of yours. It's too bad Grams doesn't realize what a great-driving car she has.
Nate has a great point, but his boss is looking at it in the wrong light - the Mustang doesn't have heated seats, heated mirrors, traction control, etc. The Focus is a great value for $21Gs. The Fusion comes close or meets it with the crazy incentives that Ford has on right now, but you lose the heated seats, traction control, heated mirrors, etc. You do gain a driver's power seat. I'm not sure how often you'll use it, but there it is.
The Focus is just about where it needs to be. They just need to bring the sport models back that matter, not just half-assed attempts. The ST is a great car, to be sure, but it's not the unique animal the SVT was.
Explain to my why the rest of the world get all these better cars from Ford. Like Frost said Mexico gets all those car. North America is getting royally screwed in the realm of vehicle choices and quality.
If Ford did decide to bring over the Focus or any other models, you'd see them be on par with VWs pricing strategy.
And I'll take the words of the new CEO over an 18 year line worker at a plant, the guy turned around Boeing and that really says something to me.
My boss has a 06 mustang GT. She's always had a mustang GT, this is her 4th...she's kind of biased towards the mustang.
FocusGuy7476,Dec 7 2006, 03:39 PM Wrote:Explain to my why the rest of the world get all these better cars from Ford. Like Frost said Mexico gets all those car. North America is getting royally screwed in the realm of vehicle choices and quality.
If Ford did decide to bring over the Focus or any other models, you'd see them be on par with VWs pricing strategy.
And I'll take the words of the new CEO over an 18 year line worker at a plant, the guy turned around Boeing and that really says something to me.
[right][snapback]219038[/snapback][/right]
It's just the economies and perceptions are so different.
In europe, driving isn't a right, it's a privelege. Gas is 2 bucks a liter, getting your license costs in the thousands, and you still have the cost of permits, congestion fees, and parking that makes Toronto look like one giant empty lot by comparison.
It's the same as telephones over there. They don't know the concept of free land lines.. that's why cellphone usage is so much higher in europe too.. they already paid for every local call they made.
So the focus, to north america, is the tempo.. would you buy a 30,000 tempo? or a $30,000 escort?
hell, dealerships had a hard enough time emptying their lots of a $30,000 focus already (the SVT)....
Right now, conceivably, the one market the focus can compete in is the sub compact market, and actually, it's poised to be a vehicle people who could only affort a fit could conceivably afford the larger Focus.
In North America, that could actually be a good thing, since the common perception is 'bigger is better'.
Not to mention that the cheaper they can keep the car, the better the margins are on it. Ford NA is in so much trouble, they couldn't afford to lose more money by spending it to bring in the european models AND losing their margins at the same time.
They can do better with the time and money by making the car appear more upscale (hence all the reskins)... image seems to mean a lot more to people than performance when it comes to north american brands.
There are so many factors that'll keep the european focus out of NA. They're almost too many to number. But that doesn't mean we have to suffer. You can still get all the performance goodies in a mazda, or a volvo... you just can't have it in a focus.
FocusGuy7476,Dec 7 2006, 02:39 PM Wrote:And I'll take the words of the new CEO over an 18 year line worker at a plant, the guy turned around Boeing and that really says something to me.
[right][snapback]219038[/snapback][/right]
I'm a pilot but that doesn't mean that I could tell Mulally how to design a plane.
He's still learning about running an auto company, and it's trial by fire. And don't assume he's the saviour he appears to be. While he did well at Boeing, Boeing's turnaround wasn't all Boeing, it was helped by mismanagement at Airbus. Unlike the auto market, there are relatively few players in the airline manufacturing sector. Just as a crap launch at Ford could conceivably help Toyota sell more cars, Airbus helped Boeing sell more planes the same way.
Wanna know how confident investors are right now?
Back in June I bought $7G in shares at $6.40, sold a month ago at $8.60 (w00t!! I'll take a 35% payment in 4.5 months!!) . It was up to $9 and change. What is it today? $7.16, after losing another $.20.
Hardly a ringing endorsement.
Maybe I'm horribly misguided here (and with all due respect to those members with FI Foci), but isn't the purpose of buying a Focus to get a decent corner-carver while saving oodles of gas in the process?
The Focus was never designed to win stoplight / quarter-mile drags (with the exception of the RS, the new ST and I'll be nice and include the SVT). It was designed to (evidently) dominate WRC. The basic competencies in the chassis and suspension have been thankfully passed on down to the production vehicles.
So, aside from bolting on a Powerworks, FocusSport Roush, etc. forced-induction kit to get into the 14s and lower... what's wrong with what we have?
Personally, I'd rather see the "econobox above all" stigma removed from the car for good and have it seen for what it excels at... besides fleet sales :rolleyes:
We re-bought a Focus because we love the handling, interior space and gas mileage. The extra toys we got this time are just icing on the cheesecake (berries? glaze?). We didn't buy it for barn-burning straight-lining. Hell, it's in my personal best interest to make sure I CAN'T break 14 seconds in the quarter... I'd be in speeding ticket heaven if I could.
I hope no-one takes that the wrong way, that's just my observations on a great little car. And on that note, I'm going to go out for a completely pointless cruise. Maybe. It's -18 here right now apparently.
the focus rs would be a great car 300 horsepower awd. that would be a dream car
NOS2Go4Me,Dec 7 2006, 07:20 PM Wrote:Maybe I'm horribly misguided here (and with all due respect to those members with FI Foci), but isn't the purpose of buying a Focus to get a decent corner-carver while saving oodles of gas in the process?[right][snapback]219095[/snapback][/right]
There is nothing wrong with any of what you posted, 90% of Focus buyers are in that group.
However, value is added to the whole line by catering to that 10% that wants the "high performance" version.
When the SVT Focus appeared, it was one of the quickest -- in its class. Handling was top notch -- but for its time it WAS quick.
Problem is, everyone else leapfrogged it. Pretty sad when your top "small car sports model" get its ass handed to it by Neons.
Will everyone buy an RS? No. But its existance (here, not in Europe) adds credibility to the whole line.
NOS2Go4Me,Dec 7 2006, 08:20 PM Wrote:Maybe I'm horribly misguided here (and with all due respect to those members with FI Foci), but isn't the purpose of buying a Focus to get a decent corner-carver while saving oodles of gas in the process?
hehehe, now that you dont drive an spi....
Betcha my FI focus gets better MPG's than yours. :D
Judging by the needle travel (which is hardly scientific) vs. distance travelled, we're at least as good as the SPI so far :)
NOS2Go4Me,Dec 8 2006, 06:58 AM Wrote:Judging by the needle travel (which is hardly scientific) vs. distance travelled, we're at least as good as the SPI so far :)
[right][snapback]219130[/snapback][/right]
It will improve greatly as the engine breaks in. The Duratecs start off pretty tight.
The manual said 1600 KMs or so for the break-in, and by about 3000 you get an idea of what to expect. We just rolled over 1000 last night.
OAC_Sparky,Dec 8 2006, 08:33 AM Wrote:It will improve greatly as the engine breaks in. The Duratecs start off pretty tight.
[right][snapback]219131[/snapback][/right]
Plus the '07 supposedly gets 3mpg more than the '06, something Ford's been pretty quiet about, but is part of improving Ford's CAFE.
My new wagon just turned 2000 km and on the last tank I average 9.1L / 100 km mostly city driving --- and for a car that weighs 3140 lbs with me and a full tank of gas --- that's not too bad.
BTW - I actually went to Husky and put the car on the scales ... with me at 240 lbs that means the wagon (with moonroof and 5 speed and a pair of kid's seats) weighs 2900 lbs.
The sticker said 32 city / 44 highway. We were doing 25-26 MPG in the city with the SPI before. As of the last couple of days, it does seem to be doing better than over the weekend in the city for gas mileage.
I just priced out a Subaru Impreza SE 2.5i sedan for s***s and giggles... $25,500 or so before tax and cost of borrowing to get what we roughly have in the Focus (or slightly better, depending on the exact item).
I'll stick with the Focus.