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Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-16-2006

I really hope he wins!

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/Article...hallenge_060515

Go Clayton Ruby! - meford4u - 05-16-2006

not me.

Go Clayton Ruby! - NefCanuck - 05-16-2006

If he wins its because the law was so piss-poorly drafted in the first place. When it was introduced the lawyers in my office sat around one day and for kicks decided to to see if there were any holes in the way the law was written...

Let's just say they found holes big enough for mefords truck in it :P

NefCanuck

Go Clayton Ruby! - NOS2Go4Me - 05-16-2006

It sets an awful precedent, especially if the court case loses. The law on its own is arcane and idiotic.

I was nipped by an overly-excited Pitbull puppy once. Did I sue the owner? Nope, I smacked the puppy's nose and told me brother to keep an eye on that s***. That dog turned out just fine.

It's just a knee-jerk reaction that made it to the unfortunate status of "law".

Just watch... a sportbike will kill an "innocent" and then all motorcycles in Ontario won't be allowed to exceed 600ccs... and I've seen 600s do some crazy stuff as it is.

A sports car will kill an "innocent", probably driven by a "street racer" or worse yet a "car performance enthusiast", and that crazy car modding bill they intro'd the other year will gain some serious teeth and criminalize all performance-enhancing modifications.

Any dog can be dangerous. How dangerous depends on not just the dog but the owner. What do you want to bet that the guys with the most dangerous dogs happen to have criminal records? There's a reason dogs are inbred/trained to be vicious. It ain't to protect Little Timmay.

Go Clayton Ruby! - ZTWsquared - 05-16-2006

I hope he doesn't win, and if he's counting on the issue of a vague description of the breed as his argument, that's already been tried unsuccessfully a number of times in the states.

If he's trying to claim that it is too hard to identify the breed, then he'll probably lose because it's not that hard.

Owners identify their dogs as pit bulls all the time. So do shelters. So do dog show judges. So do vets. So do any number of other experts in the field. The fact that some of us might mistake another breed for a pit bull is irrelevant; and it's covered in the legislation.

There are characteristics, we can recognize them; and as do all dogs, those dogs have certain tendencies that are inherent to the breed. It is unfortunate for pit bulls and those who like them that they have tendencies that are dangerous.

Go Clayton Ruby! - jen_deans - 05-16-2006

I agree, I dont think it is fair to ban an entire breed like that, hopefully a better solutions comes out of this!

Go Clayton Ruby! - ANTHONYD - 05-16-2006

The ban on pit-bulls is one I'm on the fence with. When we went to the SPCA to get Roxie, most of the dogs in the pound were Bull something. They had bull breeds in them. BIG HUGE SIGNS STATING THEY WILL HAVE TO BE MUZZLED. The employee of the shelter said no one wanted these guys because they would have to be muzzled. I can understand where society is coming from. How many people and other animals have to be mauled by Bulls before they do something about it. Now I'm not in anyway stating Bulls are the only breed out there with vicious tendancies, s*** there is a little dust mop of a dog in our training class that is freakin' nuts with aggression, why is he not muzzled?

My dog has aggression issues while on leash. I don't let her meet other dogs on walks, I don't allow her slack leash when other dogs are approaching etc...

On the other hand, If an owner is aware of it's animals tendancies, it should take the proper action. Don't let your dog off it's leash, don't intoroduce him to STRANGE animals or small childeren. Just because he's dosile in your home, doesn't mean he won't be crazy outside the safety of his own domain.

Don't get me wrong, I love the breed, great all around dog, I just couldn't own one bacause of all the crap that comes with it. People look at me weird already.

Nate, what's it like to own a dog that society has pegged a killer? I couldn't imagine.



Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

ANTHONYD,May 16 2006, 09:03 AM Wrote:Nate, what's it like to own a dog that society has pegged a killer? I couldn't imagine.
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Well, I dont muzzle him. He's fixed, trained, always on a leash, but I dont mussle him. He's got a case of 'chin zits' which is litteraly what the sentence is.....Dog zits on his chin. Instead of yellow puss coing out, they bleed. I've tried the muzzle, but it just shreds his pour face apart. :(

So....since I dont muzzle him I get a comment about once a week saying to 'muzzle my killer', 'Arent you worried with no muzzle', 'I hope you dont live near me'....s*** like that. :rolleyes:

But then you run into a dog person. And you can tell who's a dog person and who isnt. These are the people that come up to me, and ask if hes freindly....yes he is....they show the palm of their hand to him...he smells it, then pets him. Tail wags, everybody is happy.

Now...most of my freinds have pitbull type dogs. Theres actually 5 of us that have them now...1 of them with 3 of them, another with 5. :blink:

All great dogs. They get a little aggresive together, but its well known that these dogs wont get along with eachother 100% of the time. You never leave 2 bull breeds together, theyre bred to fight, and fight to the death.

And I find it funny that some of you think its in them to kill, bite, etc. Yeah sure, put them in the pit and their instinct will take over....but Like I've always said, the problem is at the other end of the leash. Yes, they were bred to rule the dog fight pits, but think about the characteristics it takes to make a good fighter....loyalty, a will to never give up, much love for their master/trainer, and willing to pleas etheir master to no end. The 3 times my dog has gotten into fights with other dogs (may i add, he wasnt the one to start em) as soon as my hand is in there, Mac stops, he knows not to bite a human, and will take the bites from the other dog until that human hand is out of the way. BTW, it was a rotweiler, german sheppard and my freinds pit that he got into fights with. I actually havent met a German sheppard that Im comfortable around (and Im a HUGE dog person)...all of them that I've met were extremely aggresive, but you know what....I look at the other end of the leash and it all makes sense. ;)

Wiping these guys out wont solve anything...and its funny that we havent heard about any viscious attacks lately heh? Media got bored I guess, and dont tell me its because theyre all muzzled, go for a walk downtown Ottawa...maybe 1 out of 4 are muzzled. You take away the pit from that DMX white kid, and hes going to go get a rotty or german sheppard or....hate to see it...presna canaria or Cane Corso....in other words, your pitbull on steroids. Both these breeds look very similay to Staff's but more of a Bull mastif weight to them. :blink: And they aint banned by the wording of the current law.

Who would hate these guys? c'mon?

Notice mine is on the leash!
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Go Clayton Ruby! - ANTHONYD - 05-17-2006

Yup seriously cute.
But still has the ability to tear my arms off if it wanted too.

It's unfortunate that society has labeled these dogs killers but can you blame us? A lot of the vicious dog claims turn out to be bull breeds, it's also unfortunate that people would slip comments at you while out for a walk.


Is it possible to be racist towards a dog breed?

Go Clayton Ruby! - jen_deans - 05-17-2006

THEY ARE SOOOOO BEAUTIFUL

Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

ANTHONYD,May 16 2006, 10:20 AM Wrote:Is it possible to be racist towards a dog breed?
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This is exactly it.

Yeah....the media LOVES pitbull attacks. What makes front page news? The murdering pitbull that just killed that poodle walking in its front yard or the Golden retreiver that bit the kids face? Pitbull attacks are also more gruesome due to the fact of their jaw power and the major damage it can do in very little time, but other breeds not just pitbulls are capable of this also.

A freind of mine has a rotty and a Boxer. The rotty attacked my wifes freind 2 years ago....Stiches in the face, surgery to fix the scaring 2 years later. Was he put down? Did he make the paper? No. I was attacked by a king poodle in my sakeboarding days....I was skating home, dog was off the leash, didnt like the sound of my board....took off after me, bit me in the leg before the owner called him off. Did I sue the owner? Did I go to the paper? No, what newspaper out there wants "Skateboader bitten by poodle" :rolleyes: It just doesnt make the news.

This is going to sound racist....and I dont mean it at all this way.

Toronto had a problem with blacks killing eachother last year....year of the gun or something like that. Do we ban all black people since statistically theyre the ones with the guns and in the gangs? I hope not. There some good parents out there that raised theyre kids to be productive people of society ;)

Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

ANTHONYD,May 16 2006, 10:20 AM Wrote:But still has the ability to tear my arms off if it wanted too.
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So does your dog, mine will just do it faster. ;)

But will either of them be in that situation? We ensure they wont be.

Go Clayton Ruby! - ANTHONYD - 05-17-2006

Flofocus,May 16 2006, 10:37 AM Wrote:
ANTHONYD,May 16 2006, 10:20 AM Wrote:Is it possible to be racist towards a dog breed?
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This is exactly it.

Yeah....the media LOVES pitbull attacks. What makes front page news? The murdering pitbull that just killed that poodle walking in its front yard or the Golden retreiver that bit the kids face? Pitbull attacks are also more gruesome due to the fact of their jaw power and the major damage it can do in very little time, but other breeds not just pitbulls are capable of this also.

A freind of mine has a rotty and a Boxer. The rotty attacked my wifes freind 2 years ago....Stiches in the face, surgery to fix the scaring 2 years later. Was he put down? Did he make the paper? No. I was attacked by a king poodle in my sakeboarding days....I was skating home, dog was off the leash, didnt like the sound of my board....took off after me, bit me in the leg before the owner called him off. Did I sue the owner? Did I go to the paper? No, what newspaper out there wants "Skateboader bitten by poodle" :rolleyes: It just doesnt make the news.

This is going to sound racist....and I dont mean it at all this way.

Toronto had a problem with blacks killing eachother last year....year of the gun or something like that. Do we ban all black people since statistically theyre the ones with the guns and in the gangs? I hope not. There some good parents out there that raised theyre kids to be productive people of society ;)
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This was my point Nate. Glad you picked up on it. I was thinking it, you said.


Go Clayton Ruby! - ANTHONYD - 05-17-2006

Flofocus,May 16 2006, 10:43 AM Wrote:
ANTHONYD,May 16 2006, 10:20 AM Wrote:But still has the ability to tear my arms off if it wanted too.
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But will either of them be in that situation? We ensure they wont be.
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That's our job as responsible dog owners no?

Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

Bingo!!

Go Clayton Ruby! - ZTWsquared - 05-17-2006

I’ve never met you but I accept that you’re a great dog owner who would never put their dog in a situation where it could harm someone – but I have a big problem with what you’ve written – seems like it’s straight out of some talking point website complete with inaccuracies and inconsistencies.

For example … let me string together a few of your own sentences
Flofocus,May 16 2006, 10:03 AM Wrote:They get a little aggressive … theyre bred to fight, and fight to the death ... I find it funny that some of you think its in them to kill, bite, etc. … their instinct will take over.... yes, they were bred to rule the dog fight pits … but think about the characteristics it takes to make a good fighter....a will to never give up … 3 times my dog has gotten into fights with other dogs …

The modern spin on these dogs is that it’s all about the bad owner. Sorry, that’s BS. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that the bad owners aren’t helping your cause, but every breed has bad owners – probably in greater proportions than pit bulls.

But let’s be equitable here and say that pit bulls have the same proportion of bad owners as other breeds. How do you then explain why pit bulls are twice as likely to be involved in a fatal attack than any other breed – and that includes the rottweillers and all the other aggressive breeds you correctly identified.

A study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released in 2000 said pit bulls were twice as likely as any other breed to be involved in a fatal attack. And a study published in the American Veterinary Medical Association came to the same conclusion. It was on the basis of this data that just two months ago Denver beat back the challenge against its ban on pit bulls. The judge said “... there is credible evidence that pit bull dog attacks are more severe and more likely to result in fatalities."

And why would anyone be surprised by these conclusions? Pit bulls certainly have the right physical characteristics. They have great strength, they have stamina and IIRC correctly their bite is stronger than any other breed.

Pit bulls have the will to press a fight to the death – you’ve pointed that out yourself. Pit bulls also have a recognized and accepted propensity to attack. We all accept that pointers point and dachsunds dig and that terriers shake things; why are pit bull owners so loath to accept that their breed has certain tendencies too. Well they do … and it’s not bad owners and it’s not being mistreated and it’s not gang-banger machismo. This argument doesn’t make sense and there have been too many documented attacks by well-loved, well-treated family pet pit bulls for anyone to believe it.

IMO this controversy isn’t just about pit bulls (although they certainly are the poster boys) it’s about what’s acceptable in terms of the risks we expose others to. One person's life is worth more than all the pit bulls in the world and if you don't think so, then your value system is way out of whack. Maybe banning pit bulls isn’t the total solution, but it’s a start.


Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

What can I say? Everythign you said is what I've said, Theyre a strong and dominant breed and the right owners know how to handle them. The wrong ones will put their animal in the wrong situation causing a bad ending to something that could have been prevented. Like NOS said, how many of those owners of the pitbull attacks have criminal records? Im willing to bet, most do. A puppy pitbull nipped him, just like mine did everyday for the first 3 months I owned him. Guess what? My Husky did the same (For those that dont know, i have a siberian husky also, Lilly), so did my other dogs, but I trained them not to do that. Consistently I said no, bad dog, whatever to discourage that. Now a owner that doesnt train theyre dog like that will run into problems down the road. Its just to easy to screw up traing with any dog.

Killing them and wiping them out completely is still not the answer. If you think its ok to stick a needle and kill an animal that hasnt even opened their eyes yet, then I would say your the one with the messed up values. This animal hasnt even looked at a human, but were already labaleing it as a human killer.

You guys beleive this media BS and it pisses me off. Theyre should be more good stories about the breed and theres plenty that show thier loyalty and loving side. Its just that doesnt make the news, and who blames them, it doesnt sell.

All pitbulls Ive met are great, loving animals, until one changes my mind, I'm gonna fight this fight to the end. This is speaking from EXPERIENCE and not what the BS media wants you to beleive.

I've said this story before....

One lady who was at the hearings for the pitbull ban last year, was against it. She lost her daughter to a dog attack. The dog wasnt a pitbull or bull breed mix but a husky ....Her daughter was attacked and killed by this dog, owner was slapped with a fine for not having his dog leashed and ordered to put the dog down.

The week after, the mother is walking down that same road....guess what she sees, mister playing with his brand new husky pup. Off the leash.

And to go back to what Anthnoy was mentioning. He went to the SPCA (good job) to get a dog and all he saw was bull breeds. I'm willing to bet that their is a very high onwership of bull breeds, more than any other breed. Kind of like the german shepards in the 80's. Theyre were a fashion statement more than anythign so every cool guy had one. Funny how my parents told me to stay away from those dogs when I was young, heh?!? ;) Oh, and thats what covered the front pages in kingston then....GS attacks.

its the pitbulls turn now. :rolleyes:

Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

Quote:Examination of newspaper archival records dating back to the 1950’s and 1960’s reveal the same types of severe and fatal attacks occurring then as today. The only difference is the breed of dog responsible for these events. A random study of 74 severe and fatal attacks reported in the Evening Bulletin (Philadelphia, PA) from 1964-1968, show no severe or fatal attacks by Rottweilers and only one attack attributed to a Pit-Bull-type dog. The dogs involved in most of these incidents were the breeds that were popular at the time.


Go Clayton Ruby! - NOS2Go4Me - 05-17-2006

I've owned a Rotty as a kid that was more vicious than any Pit I've seen. We had to have it put down because NOTHING worked on it... nothing. Later we found out excessive in-breeding caused it to be quite loopy.

Also, seeing as we're on the limb-rending topic... a pissed off Great Dane (especially a male) will rip you a new one faster and more efficiently than a Pit will. Danes have (IIRC) the strongest jaws of any dog and are almost the largest breed in the world. They're known for the capacity to exude crazy amounts of PSI (gotta look it up) in their bite... a 2-3" sapling is nothing to those dogs, if they were so inclined.

I've owned / had in the family over 6 Danes in my life, and only one male was ever a concern. We think it's because the other two we had at the time were females and they drove him nuts :lol:

Seriously... they're enormously-powerful dogs, yet ultimately gentle. And that's the point. When any dog is properly bred, properly trained and cared for... they're sucks. I had a 170lb alarm clock all through high school. When I'd sleep through the buzzer, she'd sandwich herself between me and the wall (back to back) and the n push me off the bed! :rofl:

Dalmatians are actually one of the most iffy and volatile dogs. That's a shame, because they're quite nice looking and are almost always featured alongside fire trucks in childrens' books.

Go Clayton Ruby! - Flofocus - 05-17-2006

Cosmo, our great dane was a great dog. People moved across the street when they sa wyou coming....same when I walk both dogs togther today.

He put my dad in the hospital for a week and a bit. The dog took off after a female dane in the dog park, dragged my father causing 2nd degree burns along his side :blink: