OAC_Sparky,Mar 27 2006, 06:44 PM Wrote:

microbunny,Mar 27 2006, 06:36 PM Wrote:

meford4u,Mar 27 2006, 06:34 PM Wrote:...But if you've met me, you'd learn I am just as much of a jackass in person as I am on the board....

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UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR....AND THE AWARD GOES TO.....
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I second that! But that's OK, I have plenty of jackass friends, even been accused of being one myself occasionally. :lol:
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microbunny,Mar 27 2006, 07:43 PM Wrote:

Flofocus,Mar 27 2006, 06:38 PM Wrote:I dont want an aplogy.

And just so that everybody knows.  I've NEVER met meford, yet we can still get a long pretty good.  I've never met bunny, yet we still get a long pretty good also.
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Thats why we get along... :lol:
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darkpuppet,Mar 27 2006, 06:44 PM Wrote:p.s.  I don't mind people airing their griefs, but don't turn this into bullying someone off the site either... it's a fine line, and ztwsquared, I may need your help to define that line.
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OAC_Sparky,Mar 27 2006, 06:44 PM Wrote:

microbunny,Mar 27 2006, 06:36 PM Wrote:

meford4u,Mar 27 2006, 06:34 PM Wrote:...But if you've met me, you'd learn I am just as much of a jackass in person as I am on the board....

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UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR....AND THE AWARD GOES TO.....
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I second that!

But that's OK, I have plenty of jackass friends, even been accused of being one myself occasionally. :lol:
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meford4u,Mar 27 2006, 06:49 PM Wrote:I tell it like it is.  I hope you or he doesn't see this as bullying him.  If he wants the respect from us than it has to given in return when we voice an opinion that differs from his.

Understanding this goes a long way.

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darkpuppet,Mar 27 2006, 07:04 PM Wrote:

meford4u,Mar 27 2006, 06:49 PM Wrote:I tell it like it is.  I hope you or he doesn't see this as bullying him.  If he wants the respect from us than it has to given in return when we voice an opinion that differs from his.

Understanding this goes a long way.

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I know it's not, I just don't want it to become that. please don't think I'm bullying you now.

christ... I can't win! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol:
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ZTWsquared,Mar 27 2006, 05:40 PM Wrote:I thought twice about writing this (I was going to post it in the “Boycott Ford” thread, but it is now locked) but I decided to post it because I enjoy a lot of what you write and value much of what you offer.

Unfortunately a lot of otherwise interesting and controversial posts seem to degenerate into name calling and the occasionally entertaining but thug-like personal attack. And although my comments do apply to others IMO, I must be honest in saying that you in particular inspired this post. My reason for stating them here is not to flame, but instead to impart some insight with the hope that we can all communicate just a bit better in future threads.

Let me start by saying that I consider myself to be a fair, balanced and open minded person more than capable of looking at both sides, cutting through the crap and seeing what’s really there; and I do this for a living. And because you appear to be a decent writer, I feel that I can make reasonable judgements about you; at least on the basis of what you have written.

For example, in the Boycott Ford thread you make a few comments about this being a “fact based” discussion and then conclude with the notion that no one is listening to or understanding your facts, and that for some personal reason everyone is arguing against you – hence the “deck is stacked” comment – indicating you feel that you have an unfair disadvantage in the discussion based on something personal.

Indeed you do have a disadvantage (at least in that thread), but it is hardly unfair … much the same as bringing a knife to a gun fight is unfair. I reread the entire thread – and my conclusion is this: you entered what you yourself proclaimed was a fact-based discussion without actually presenting any facts.

You stated your opinion in a way that made it pretty clear how you felt – but you didn’t support your opinion with any facts or even any representation of facts; you simply repeated your opinion in a variety of different ways. All well and good so far.

But when others pointed out what they felt were serious flaws and possibly hypocrisy in your logic, and supported these opinions with facts, you instead seemed to take this as a personal affront. Rather than dispute the facts or give your alternate intrepretation of them, you attacked the motives of the other.

In a rare bit of irony (although you probably didn’t know you were doing this) IMO you were claiming “argumentum ad hominem” against you, while at the same time you were guilty of this fallacy yourself.

And for those of you who long ago forgot Philosophy 101, a fallacy is a recognized mistake in reasoning, and argumentum ad hominem is the fallacy of attacking the person instead of attacking their argument; a classic example is “you couldn’t possibly be right because you attended special ed classes.”

Although it is a fine line, there is a distinction between saying “You’re wrong and you’re an idiot because of this fact, this fact and this line of reasoning” and “You’re wrong because you’re an idiot.” As an argument the first is acceptable (barely) ... the second isn’t.

So in conclusion please don’t take my comments as a personal attack, and don’t take my opinion as a reason for leaving the site – I am merely trying to articulate why I think a lot of otherwise interesting and controversial posts degenerate into name calling, with the hope that it can be avoided in the future.
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habmann,Mar 27 2006, 07:45 PM Wrote:

ZTWsquared,Mar 27 2006, 05:40 PM Wrote:I thought twice about writing this (I was going to post it in the “Boycott Ford” thread, but it is now locked) but I decided to post it because I enjoy a lot of what you write and value much of what you offer.

Unfortunately a lot of otherwise interesting and controversial posts seem to degenerate into name calling and the occasionally entertaining but thug-like personal attack. And although my comments do apply to others IMO, I must be honest in saying that you in particular inspired this post. My reason for stating them here is not to flame, but instead to impart some insight with the hope that we can all communicate just a bit better in future threads.

Let me start by saying that I consider myself to be a fair, balanced and open minded person more than capable of looking at both sides, cutting through the crap and seeing what’s really there; and I do this for a living. And because you appear to be a decent writer, I feel that I can make reasonable judgements about you; at least on the basis of what you have written.

For example, in the Boycott Ford thread you make a few comments about this being a “fact based” discussion and then conclude with the notion that no one is listening to or understanding your facts, and that for some personal reason everyone is arguing against you – hence the “deck is stacked” comment – indicating you feel that you have an unfair disadvantage in the discussion based on something personal.

Indeed you do have a disadvantage (at least in that thread), but it is hardly unfair … much the same as bringing a knife to a gun fight is unfair. I reread the entire thread – and my conclusion is this: you entered what you yourself proclaimed was a fact-based discussion without actually presenting any facts.

You stated your opinion in a way that made it pretty clear how you felt – but you didn’t support your opinion with any facts or even any representation of facts; you simply repeated your opinion in a variety of different ways. All well and good so far.

But when others pointed out what they felt were serious flaws and possibly hypocrisy in your logic, and supported these opinions with facts, you instead seemed to take this as a personal affront. Rather than dispute the facts or give your alternate intrepretation of them, you attacked the motives of the other.

In a rare bit of irony (although you probably didn’t know you were doing this) IMO you were claiming “argumentum ad hominem” against you, while at the same time you were guilty of this fallacy yourself.

And for those of you who long ago forgot Philosophy 101, a fallacy is a recognized mistake in reasoning, and argumentum ad hominem is the fallacy of attacking the person instead of attacking their argument; a classic example is “you couldn’t possibly be right because you attended special ed classes.”

Although it is a fine line, there is a distinction between saying “You’re wrong and you’re an idiot because of this fact, this fact and this line of reasoning” and “You’re wrong because you’re an idiot.” As an argument the first is acceptable (barely) ... the second isn’t.

So in conclusion please don’t take my comments as a personal attack, and don’t take my opinion as a reason for leaving the site – I am merely trying to articulate why I think a lot of otherwise interesting and controversial posts degenerate into name calling, with the hope that it can be avoided in the future.
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Very well written. I think every member should keep these things in mind.
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2001 ZTS,Mar 27 2006, 09:04 PM Wrote:How I manage petty annoyances:

1. Heavy use of the ignore function
2. Don't read any post more than 24 hours old

What's the point of being brought into a Special Olympics marathon? Nothing good can come of an on line exchange that ends with: "I've just Google Mapped North Bay and am leaving now............"

NOS is like having a flying insect in your house, a leaky faucet, stepping in dog crap, crud in your microwave or having a shopping cart ding in your bodywork. It does no harm but just bugs the excrement out of you.

The internet is supposed to be lawless like the old west in which case I see nothing wrong with in running him out of town.

We all have our moments but nobody else so consistently pisses everyone else off so often and with such thoroughness.

Time for some frontier justice.
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microbunny,Mar 27 2006, 09:42 PM Wrote:Sell me your rims!
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2001 ZTS,Mar 27 2006, 09:51 PM Wrote:

microbunny,Mar 27 2006, 09:42 PM Wrote:Sell me your rims!
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Even I didn't see that one coming.

Oh, here's your answer:

NO

dp's got dibs and if I end up with the Focus as well as the Sube then the wheels are getting chrome dipped. They have to because of my new pimp hat, you know the kind with the feather? Think Huggy Bear.
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microbunny,Mar 27 2006, 10:51 PM Wrote:Well put...

I think one of the biggest problems is everyone thinks they are an expert on everything and its really lame!

If you don't know something....don't pretend....ASK!

Everyone can always learn something new...although some of you guys make me laugh at how much you think you know~!
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2001 ZTS,Mar 27 2006, 09:04 PM Wrote:The internet is supposed to be lawless like the old west in which case I see nothing wrong with in running him out of town.

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darkpuppet,Mar 28 2006, 08:35 AM Wrote:

2001 ZTS,Mar 27 2006, 09:04 PM Wrote:The internet is supposed to be lawless like the old west in which case I see nothing wrong with in running him out of town.

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the internet is borderless, not lawless.
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