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+--- Thread: Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta (/showthread.php?tid=5264)
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - ZTWsquared - 07-06-2007
Ditto on the Chinese discs ... as for the difference between Ford OE and Motorcraft, I asked the parts guy that question and his answer was "30 bucks" - thanks a lot.
He couldn't explain any technical difference but basically said that the Motorcraft is comparable to a good aftermarket piece and the OE is, well ... Original Equipment - again, thanks a lot.
For me I'm sure the Motorcraft will do just fine. I put a set of premium Wagner rotors and pads on my wife's ZTW and I like them a lot better than the stock setup they replaced. After 10k they stop better, they look better and they feel better. They weren't cheap, but they weren't outrageous either. Except for the fact that the Motorcraft are essentially the same price and I might even get a discount at Dixie, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Wagners either.
NefCanuck,Jul 5 2007, 02:18 PM Wrote:ZTWsquared,Jul 5 2007, 12:48 PM Wrote:The retail price of an OE rotor is 120.00 and the premium Motorcraft version is 90.00. Partsource quoted 89.00 for their premium Wagner rotor.
I was also quoted 70.00 at a couple of local auto parts stores for a made-in-China rotor.
At one time I got a decent discount at Dixie (15% IIRC) through the agency I worked at ... I'll let you know this aft if I still qualify and if so, and if you decide you want a Ford rotor, I can hook you up.
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Well, I certainly wouldn't go with a "Made In China" solution for a track day event :ph34r: But why the $30 difference between the OE & Motorcraft rotor? Aren't they the exact same thing? Or is there some difference in terms of warranty/materials?
Yes please, if you could find out if you qualify for the discount that would be great.
NefCanuck
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - NefCanuck - 07-06-2007
Ah, the Ford parts counter guy... I'll stop here in case anyone here is one or knows one <_<
Would the Wagners hold up to track use with non-matched pads though? I'm guessing the Ford OE's would with the Hawk Pads and I'm gonna be stuck with the setup until something wears out so no use getting a combo that doesn't play nice with each other ;)
NefCanuck
ZTWsquared,Jul 5 2007, 05:41 PM Wrote:Ditto on the Chinese discs ... as for the difference between Ford OE and Motorcraft, I asked the parts guy that question and his answer was "30 bucks" - thanks a lot.
For me I'm sure the Motorcraft will do just fine. I put a set of premium Wagner rotors and pads on my wife's ZTW and I like them a lot better than the stock setup they replaced. After 10k they stop better, they look better and they feel better. They weren't cheap, but they weren't outrageous either. Except for the fact that the Motorcraft are essentially the same price and I might even get a discount at Dixie, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Wagners either.
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - ZTWsquared - 07-06-2007
Dixie Ford was in the midst of a power outage when I went there this aft, so no joy on whether or not I still get a discount there.
Everything I've read about the benefits of specific brands of pads (Hawk, EPC, PBR, etc, etc) seem to be void of any mention about requiring a specific type or brand of rotor in order to deliver those benefits.
So based solely on that, my assumption is that the quality of the pads alone provides a certain type of stopping characteristic regardless of the rotor ... and that the quality of the rotor will affect only its longevity or service life, and perhaps resistance to warping, cracking or breaking.
So further to that ... my secondary assumption is that going with any premium brand of rotor will stand me in good stead with my choice of pads; understanding that my choice of pads may shorten the life of whatever rotors I choose.
My plan is to continue driving whatever setup I install for Dunnville, and if something catastrophic happens I can always put back the brakes I took off.
If my theory is all messed up, I hope someone with more expertise than I have can point it out - preferably before Daniel and I purchase our rotors.
NefCanuck,Jul 5 2007, 07:52 PM Wrote:Ah, the Ford parts counter guy... I'll stop here in case anyone here is one or knows one <_<
Would the Wagners hold up to track use with non-matched pads though? I'm guessing the Ford OE's would with the Hawk Pads and I'm gonna be stuck with the setup until something wears out so no use getting a combo that doesn't play nice with each other ;)
NefCanuck
ZTWsquared,Jul 5 2007, 05:41 PM Wrote:Ditto on the Chinese discs ... as for the difference between Ford OE and Motorcraft, I asked the parts guy that question and his answer was "30 bucks" - thanks a lot.[right][snapback]243234[/snapback][/right]
For me I'm sure the Motorcraft will do just fine. I put a set of premium Wagner rotors and pads on my wife's ZTW and I like them a lot better than the stock setup they replaced. After 10k they stop better, they look better and they feel better. They weren't cheap, but they weren't outrageous either. Except for the fact that the Motorcraft are essentially the same price and I might even get a discount at Dixie, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Wagners either.
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - naz - 07-06-2007
the stock brake setup in the focus is NOT bad at all (unless they changed a ton between 00 and 05). the 00 stock brakes and rotors are fine for use at a lapping school.
and as i said before, the only things that hawk hps will get you over stock is less dust.
just because something is 'stock' that doesn't make it bad...
EDIT: i can't substantiate this with any tech but i would spend the extra $ for an OE rotor or brembo blank rotor versus getting a random brand cheapo rotor from china.. brakes aren't the place to try to save a few bucks. i'm suggesting this because i believe a poorly cast rotor is more prone to cracking or warping
Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - NefCanuck - 07-06-2007
Well, the Hawk HPS also claim better stopping performance than stock, less dust *&* a better stopping distance is my nirvana ;)
Already decided I'm not doing the random cheapest rotor thing, even if I wasn't doing a track day, I sure as hell don't want to play fast & loose with my brakes thanks :ph34r:
and the only changes between 00 and 05 was the diameter of the rotor was made bigger as of 05 for better heat dissipation. To combat the previous gen rotor and its tendency for warping under stress as I understand it.
NefCanuck
naz,Jul 5 2007, 08:33 PM Wrote:the stock brake setup in the focus is NOT bad at all (unless they changed a ton between 00 and 05). the 00 stock brakes and rotors are fine for use at a lapping school.
and as i said before, the only things that hawk hps will get you over stock is less dust.
just because something is 'stock' that doesn't make it bad...
EDIT: i can't substantiate this with any tech but i would spend the extra $ for an OE rotor or brembo blank rotor versus getting a random brand cheapo rotor from china.. brakes aren't the place to try to save a few bucks. i'm suggesting this because i believe a poorly cast rotor is more prone to cracking or warping
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - ZTWsquared - 07-06-2007
I agree that being stock isn't necessarily bad ... but I can tell you from personal experience and some insider knowledge that, although Focus brakes stop the car nicely, they suck in terms of longevity and in terms of NVH.
Having now had 7 Focus including an '00 and virtually every year up to '07, I can tell you that the '07's stock brakes are quite nice (same rotor size as Contour SVT, BTW) but for all my 00 to 04 Foci, I had the original rotors replaced under warranty on every single one of them ... by 15k they were all gouged and noisy and they generated a vibration ... and not only mine (I'm admittedly hard on brakes) but also on my wife's cars and she is decidedly easy on brakes.
Ford published a number of TSBs on Focus brakes and they finally got tired of customer complaints and warranty expense, hence the change to bigger brakes in 05 which essentially solved the problem. My point being is it wasn't just me.
Having said that ... after 17k my brakes (07 ZXW) are looking the worse for wear (seriously gouged and pitted) however I must say that they stop great and feel pretty good. Nonetheless I'm looking forward to what I will experience with a premium aftermarket rotor and a more aggressive pad.
The corollary to this is ... just because it's OEM doesn't mean it's good and it doesn't mean its superior to aftermarket.
naz,Jul 5 2007, 09:33 PM Wrote:the stock brake setup in the focus is NOT bad at all (unless they changed a ton between 00 and 05). the 00 stock brakes and rotors are fine for use at a lapping school.
and as i said before, the only things that hawk hps will get you over stock is less dust.
just because something is 'stock' that doesn't make it bad...
EDIT: i can't substantiate this with any tech but i would spend the extra $ for an OE rotor or brembo blank rotor versus getting a random brand cheapo rotor from china.. brakes aren't the place to try to save a few bucks. i'm suggesting this because i believe a poorly cast rotor is more prone to cracking or warping
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - Flofocus - 07-06-2007
Weird, my 1st set of fr rotor/pads lasted till about 80k, and I have a 00 focus, one of the good ones :lol:
My rears make a lot of noise if I dont stay ontop of cleaning them though. I do that every 2nd or 3rd oil change.
Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - naz - 07-07-2007
NefCanuck,Jul 6 2007, 01:44 AM Wrote:Well, the Hawk HPS also claim better stopping performance than stock, less dust *&* a better stopping distance is my nirvana ;)
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if you can lock up the front wheels (or engage ABS) in the dry using your current setup, changing to a more aggressive pad isn't going to improve your stopping distance unless you change tires as well..
i think the setup you are going with is great, i used to have it as well.. i'm just saying don't expect miracles.. it isn't going to be that different from stock
the stock pads/rotors lasted to around 75k on my 00 zx3 as well. they were fine up to the wear indicators.. i autoX the car and drove fairly hard..
on a random note if i recall correctly P51 used the stock brakes on his turbo focus for track events
Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - ZTWsquared - 07-07-2007
Hey Adam ... no joy on Brembo blanks for our car ... they have the number (27412) but they haven't started producing them yet.
Apparently they had a North American mfg lined up to produce them, but that company closed its NA doors and went to China. No date set yet for when they'll even starting making them ... or if.
NOS2Go4Me,Jul 5 2007, 10:55 AM Wrote:NefCanuck,Jul 5 2007, 10:46 AM Wrote:Flofocus,Jul 5 2007, 07:46 AM Wrote:you changing the rotors to?
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Didn't think I needed to... I'm only upgrading to Hawk HPS pads and the rotors have only 52K on them (and have been maintained by Ford Service since I bought the car)
Are you thinking I need to throw a new set of OE rotors on there too? :blink:
NefCanuck
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I'd go with Brembo blanks if you're putting new rotors in.
Or just chuck it all and put a Big Brake Kit in. :ph34r:
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - NefCanuck - 07-07-2007
Heh, I've never been able to engage the ABS in the dry with this car. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the tires on it were far better dry performers than what I had on my Olds (current tires on the Focus are the Nokian WR All Season 2)
So maybe a slightly more agressive pad would haul the car down sooner, though I've never felt the car really lacked for stopping power the few times I had to slam on the brakes (Tip: If you're slamming on the brakes in the city... you're driving too fast :lol:)
NefCanuck
naz,Jul 6 2007, 12:25 PM Wrote:NefCanuck,Jul 6 2007, 01:44 AM Wrote:Well, the Hawk HPS also claim better stopping performance than stock, less dust *&* a better stopping distance is my nirvana ;)
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if you can lock up the front wheels (or engage ABS) in the dry using your current setup, changing to a more aggressive pad isn't going to improve your stopping distance unless you change tires as well..
i think the setup you are going with is great, i used to have it as well.. i'm just saying don't expect miracles.. it isn't going to be that different from stock
the stock pads/rotors lasted to around 75k on my 00 zx3 as well. they were fine up to the wear indicators.. i autoX the car and drove fairly hard..
on a random note if i recall correctly P51 used the stock brakes on his turbo focus for track events
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - naz - 07-07-2007
NefCanuck,Jul 6 2007, 07:17 PM Wrote:Heh, I've never been able to engage the ABS in the dry with this car. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the tires on it were far better dry performers than what I had on my Olds (current tires on the Focus are the Nokian WR All Season 2)no chance nokian all season tires have more traction than falken azenis sport.. and you can lock up the azenis in the dry with the stock setup
good luck with your brake setup and track day.. take pics!
Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - NefCanuck - 07-07-2007
Oh I don't doubt the Azenis have a better dry grip than the Nokians (I also don't doubt that driving the Azeni's in the wintertime would be signing your death warrant either :P)
The ABS on the Focus is a lot less likely to intervene than on my Olds (and the Olds system hit hard against your foot while you were slamming the brakes too <_<)
Oh I'll be bringing my camera don't worry and taking pictures of cars far faster than mine :ph34r: :lol:
NefCanuck
naz,Jul 6 2007, 02:52 PM Wrote:NefCanuck,Jul 6 2007, 07:17 PM Wrote:Heh, I've never been able to engage the ABS in the dry with this car.ÃÂ I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the tires on it were far better dry performers than what I had on my Olds (current tires on the Focus are the Nokian WR All Season 2)no chance nokian all season tires have more traction than falken azenis sport.. and you can lock up the azenis in the dry with the stock setup
good luck with your brake setup and track day.. take pics!
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Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - naz - 07-07-2007
NefCanuck,Jul 6 2007, 08:33 PM Wrote:Oh I don't doubt the Azenis have a better dry grip than the Nokians (I also don't doubt that driving the Azeni's in the wintertime would be signing your death warrant either :P)
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dude you know it. when temps are consistently dipping into the mid 30s at night i put winter tires on the car immediately. luckily it doesn't get much lower than 40F in the bay area.. so the only time i have to swap wheels will be when i want to go tahoe. CA FTW
Need To Put In New Pads - Call For Help Gta - NOS2Go4Me - 07-08-2007
ZTWsquared,Jul 6 2007, 02:00 PM Wrote:Hey Adam ... no joy on Brembo blanks for our car ... they have the number (27412) but they haven't started producing them yet.
Apparently they had a North American mfg lined up to produce them, but that company closed its NA doors and went to China. No date set yet for when they'll even starting making them ... or if.
NOS2Go4Me,Jul 5 2007, 10:55 AM Wrote:[right][snapback]243309[/snapback][/right]NefCanuck,Jul 5 2007, 10:46 AM Wrote:Flofocus,Jul 5 2007, 07:46 AM Wrote:you changing the rotors to?
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Didn't think I needed to... I'm only upgrading to Hawk HPS pads and the rotors have only 52K on them (and have been maintained by Ford Service since I bought the car)
Are you thinking I need to throw a new set of OE rotors on there too? :blink:
NefCanuck
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I'd go with Brembo blanks if you're putting new rotors in.
Or just chuck it all and put a Big Brake Kit in. :ph34r:
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Hey Ken, thanks for checking man!
We can still do better pads, right?