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+--- Thread: College Strike (/showthread.php?tid=10610)
College Strike - habmann - 03-07-2006
So I've been watching the news, and checking sites on the net with regards to the College teachers strike all nite, and it looks like i'm gonna have another break.
Anyone else around here in the same boat as me?
I'm all for a short break but i'll be pissed if it screws up my semester.
The positive is that i had a test tomorrow that i didn't really wanna write so this kinda works out well.
College Strike - _JC_ - 03-07-2006
yupp i'm at george brown and its a strike ....oh well i get to work now it wont ruin your semester they will just add to it in the end
College Strike - euro_zx5 - 03-07-2006
Not me, but my g/f goes to the same campus as you (habmann) and well... same boat as you. Except... all her teachers anticipated this and didn't plan any tests/gave out appropriate assignments to take up the time.
She's pretty pissed though, not looking forward to having the semester lengthened.
College Strike - habmann - 03-07-2006
Ya i don't really wanna have the semester lengthened too much. My co-op job starts may 1st so hopefully this won't screw that up. But i didn't study much for the test cuz from talking to teachers this time around, i was there last time the teachers almost went on strike 2 yrs ago, i kinda figured they were going on strike.
College Strike - ZX5focused - 03-07-2006
not me, im at the university here, but most of my friends are at the college....so theyll be having a tonne of fun while im goign to school and working!!! :(
College Strike - Euro Ford Fan - 03-07-2006
Guys your paying for a service which your not getting you have the legal right to sue the college for time loss disruptions, mental anguish and a whole host of other things.
At the very least you should get a refund for every day your not a school, you have already paid for the service.
Don't get left behind by another greedy union group, they work for you never forget that!
College Strike - meford4u - 03-07-2006
Euro Ford Fan,Mar 7 2006, 07:58 AM Wrote:Guys your paying for a service which your not getting you have the legal right to sue the college for time loss disruptions, mental anguish and a whole host of other things.
At the very least you should get a refund for every day your not a school, you have already paid for the service.
Don't get left behind by another greedy union group, they work for you never forget that!
[right][snapback]173679[/snapback][/right]
whoah, back it up a bit here.
Do you know why they are on strike?
It's not for money, it's not for time off, it's not for increased benefits.
It's all about classroom size.
Not exactly a topic that you can throw back at the union and say they are greedy.
And I don't believe in Canada you can sue and get a lot of $$$ for mental anguish.
My point, guys and gals, go out and get a full time job now because this has the makings of atleast a month interruption.
It could mean your semester goes down the toilet.
Let's hope not, but in the meantime, go out and get a job.
College Strike - ZTWsquared - 03-07-2006
meford4u,Mar 7 2006, 09:08 AM Wrote:whoah, back it up a bit here.Yes I do know ... they want a lighter workload (a.k.a. smaller class size) which they claiim will result in "a better learning experience." That's a quote from a union leader - please note that it doesn't say a better education - just a better experience.
Do you know why they are on strike?
It's not for money, it's not for time off, it's not for increased benefits.
It's all about classroom size.
Not exactly a topic that you can throw back at the union and say they are greedy.
And I don't believe in Canada you can sue and get a lot of $$$ for mental anguish.
Let's hope not, but in the meantime, go out and get a job.
[right][snapback]173681[/snapback][/right]
If the union was really intent on improving education, the first thing they would do is keep the kids in school. Their actions speak louder than their rhetoric, so if you're implying that the teachers are only striking for better education you need to add a third dimension to your thinking - this has nothing to do with the quality of the education the kids are now not getting.
And they should get a job!? This from a guy whose own job is gone for a while? They shouldn't have to get a job - they're students for fawks sake and they should be in school - and there's just one group that is withdrawing their services to make that impossible.
College Strike - meford4u - 03-08-2006
Firstly, I work on a rotating 2 week on 2 week off schedule. I don't need to go out and get a job. I was only suggesting that they go out and get a job because this is more than likely ruining their school year.
From my understanding, the government and the union have been in negotiatiiations since November. How long did you want them to negotiate for before striking?
It is very unfortunate that the students have to pay for the actions of both the government and the union, but compromise has to be the order of the day. On both sides.
And it seems that the government is really negotiating in bad faith according to the morning newspapers. The proposal they put on the table in November and was declined then with an 80% strike vote and was approaching a settlement has now been altered by the government.
I am not in favour of a strike, nor do I appreciate what the union AND government have failed to come to terms on an agreement. There is always 2 sides to every angle and I see the Liberals at fault here.
College Strike - ZTWsquared - 03-08-2006
meford4u,Mar 7 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:I was only suggesting that they go out and get a job because this is more than likely ruining their school year.Ruining their school year â my point exactly, My point about the job was that getting a job in this circumstance is a lot easier said than done â and even more so for a student who may or may not be going back to school at some indeterminate time in the future.
meford4u,Mar 7 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:How long did you want them to negotiate for before striking?Good question ... and the answer is easy -- at least until the students wouldnât suffer mid year â so letâs say May or June. But wait, thatâs the point of stiking now isnât it? Make the students suffer and that puts more pressure on the colleges to give in. If this strike was really about a better education the teachers would wait until the end of the school year. As I said, actions speak louder than words here.
meford4u,Mar 7 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:It is very unfortunate that the students have to pay for the actions of both the government and the unionâUnfortunate?â Youâre being way too generous ⦠you make it sound like it was an accident or something unintentional. It is neither â this is a calculated move designed to use the one group that isnât at the bargaining table (the student/consumer) to further the goals of the teachers. If this was a lock-out Iâd be just as critical of the government â and so would you.
meford4u,Mar 7 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:I am not in favour of a strikeWe agree here.
meford4u,Mar 7 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:â¦, nor do I appreciate what the union AND government have failed to come to terms on an agreement. There is always 2 sides to every angle and I see the Liberals at fault here.[right][snapback]173686[/snapback][/right]I actually agree with you here too ⦠but I donât blame the liberals, I blame the confrontational method of determining the value of teachers and their work conditions. There should be no strike or lock out option.
Teachers need to paid according to their value â and IMO that means for the most part they need to be paid more and they should have a reasonable work load that allows them to provide a decent learning experience. There also needs to be fiscal responsibility â teachers, colleges and government â which needs to improve its funding of post secondary education.
But they should also be held accountable for their performance and for their actions â and there should be mechanisms in place to ensure that the better teachers are lauded and the poor ones forced to better themselves or get another job.
Iâm not sure what these mechanisms look like (I have some ideas but no space here) but I can tell you what the system shouldnât look like â it shouldnât involve kids being forced to terminate their school year early because the teachers arenât teaching.
College Strike - zx4_ses - 03-08-2006
habmann,Mar 7 2006, 12:12 AM Wrote:So I've been watching the news, and checking sites on the net with regards to the College teachers strike all nite, and it looks like i'm gonna have another break.
Anyone else around here in the same boat as me?
I'm all for a short break but i'll be pissed if it screws up my semester.
The positive is that i had a test tomorrow that i didn't really wanna write so this kinda works out well.
[right][snapback]173650[/snapback][/right]
I'm at Seneca... break time! I had an assignment due today, which NEEDS to be improved, so the strike made my day :)
Here is the strike FAQ
http://www.senecac.on.ca/update/FAQ/faq.html
College Strike - euro_zx5 - 03-08-2006
zx4_ses,Mar 7 2006, 10:03 AM Wrote:habmann,Mar 7 2006, 12:12 AM Wrote:So I've been watching the news, and checking sites on the net with regards to the College teachers strike all nite, and it looks like i'm gonna have another break.
Anyone else around here in the same boat as me?
I'm all for a short break but i'll be pissed if it screws up my semester.
The positive is that i had a test tomorrow that i didn't really wanna write so this kinda works out well.
[right][snapback]173650[/snapback][/right]
I'm at Seneca... break time! I had an assignment due today, which NEEDS to be improved, so the strike made my day :)
Here is the strike FAQ
http://www.senecac.on.ca/update/FAQ/faq.html
[right][snapback]173704[/snapback][/right]
It'll probably make your week at least, if not your month or two... :lol: Knowing these teachers...
College Strike - habmann - 03-08-2006
Euro Ford Fan,Mar 7 2006, 07:58 AM Wrote:Guys your paying for a service which your not getting you have the legal right to sue the college for time loss disruptions, mental anguish and a whole host of other things.
At the very least you should get a refund for every day your not a school, you have already paid for the service.
Don't get left behind by another greedy union group, they work for you never forget that!
[right][snapback]173679[/snapback][/right]
So far no student has ever lost a semester. So as it stands right now if its a long strike, what i've been told is they'll just tack weeks onto the end of the semester to make up for the missed time.
Altho i do agree that the union is being greedy. Yes its about class sizes, but the other major issue is prep time. The union wants their full time teachers to teach about 13 hrs a week, with the rest being prep time. Now really i know what my teachers teach me, and its the same thing they've taught the class the year before, and the class before that. My teachers pull out a binder of notes that they've prepared and teach from those. So yes the first few years of teaching a course there's alot more work, but once you've taught it a few times, I'd argue that the amount of prep that teachers do for a class is reduced quite alot. And if you want to include marking tests and assignments in prep time we could do that too. But looking back to how much more teachers had to mark in high school compared to college, I'd say college teachers have it pretty good. And high school teachers have to teach way more than 13 hrs a week.
And with regards to class size, what does it really matter whethers there's 40 people in a lecture or 200. Bigger room is all that changes, doesn't effect what the teacher teaches. Yes labs are limited in size, but generally you can only put the number of students in a lab that you have space for. So I don't think that's as big an issue as its made out to be.
I needed to let that all out, normally in the past i woulda told the teachers where to go and how to get their over their strike. But my future and my marks would be negatively effected by some of my remarks so i've had to keep them to myself.
Now what i'm about to write may cause a stir but thats ok, debate is good.
I for one believe, that teachers shouldn't be allowed to strike during a school year. I am entitled to an education in Canada, and the teachers striking would prevent that. I've had to go through or be threatened with a strike 4 or 5 times through the course of my educational career. When i was in Gr 8, i had the teachers walk out because of Bill 160, a totally illegal strike. Then in high school i went through to work to rule campaigns, which limited extra curricular activities, and now i thought once i got to college that would all go away. But no in my first year the teachers settled the nite before their imposed strike deadline. Ok great, and now the this time, I'm loosing class time. You wanna strike, do it in the summer, picket/protest over christmas, reading week. Theres lots of time to protest when it doesn't involve the students. Which the teacher claim are their number 1 priority.
Ok I'm done, thanx for listening.
College Strike - NefCanuck - 03-08-2006
habmann,Mar 7 2006, 10:55 AM Wrote:Altho i do agree that the union is being greedy. Yes its about class sizes, but the other major issue is prep time. The union wants their full time teachers to teach about 13 hrs a week, with the rest being prep time. Now really i know what my teachers teach me, and its the same thing they've taught the class the year before, and the class before that. My teachers pull out a binder of notes that they've prepared and teach from those. So yes the first few years of teaching a course there's alot more work, but once you've taught it a few times, I'd argue that the amount of prep that teachers do for a class is reduced quite alot. And if you want to include marking tests and assignments in prep time we could do that too. But looking back to how much more teachers had to mark in high school compared to college, I'd say college teachers have it pretty good. And high school teachers have to teach way more than 13 hrs a week.
And with regards to class size, what does it really matter whethers there's 40 people in a lecture or 200. Bigger room is all that changes, doesn't effect what the teacher teaches. Yes labs are limited in size, but generally you can only put the number of students in a lab that you have space for. So I don't think that's as big an issue as its made out to be.
[right][snapback]173722[/snapback][/right]
Okay those are valid points, but let's look at it from the other side for a minute.
Take a course in computer sciences for example. In your scenario after the teacher draws up the lesson plans and they teach the course a few times, the prep time should be a non-issue right?
Except for the fact that in a course like computer science, things are always changing and evolving and students want to learn the newest material (Which is also a fair demand, it's no use learning skills that won't help you out in the work force) so back up goes the prep time to keep pace.
Class size, again in theory, the class size is immeterial, the teacher can teach the same thing to a class of 30 than they can to a class of 100 right?
Except for the fact that as you pointed out, computer labs (using the comp sci example again) are not infinite in size. That to mark 100 tests takes longer than 30 tests, even if you dumb down the tests to simple True & False answers (The tests having to also be changed to keep pace with the material being taught) Or the fact that the instances of students needing extra help statistically goes up as the class size grows.
Not that I agree with the idea of a strike to solve the problem (I would prefer binding arbitration on both sides) but I can understand why the teachers are doing this.
NefCanuck
College Strike - habmann - 03-08-2006
Oh i don't dispute that courses change. Personally i'm in electrical engineering technology. Which does change, but still the basics of what must be taught first never change. So yes the more advanced parts of the course need to be updated but I would say that a teacher never re-writes the whole course.
As for marking load. If that really is an issue for teachers, do what they do in universites. Employ TA's to mark and help out with tutorials. The problems are totally solveable but the teachers have dug their heals in and they want it their way or no way.
College Strike - nass - 03-08-2006
Once again the students are held as pons in this big fun game of " I want and give it to me or else " With the end of the year SO close why would they strike now?
let the students finish this year up then strike on YOUR SUMMER OFF ( for the most part I know some teacher do classes and what not in the summer ) Now you have students that will have their summer jobs/work terms and what not messed up because of this cat and mouse game.
They are saying this is about the students, they're doing this FOR the students. Well did they ever consider how this strike will affect these students they seem to care about so much? Do a work to rule until the end of the year then strike on your own time.
I don't think this smaller class sizes will help THAT much. A s***ty teacher in a class of 100 is just as s***ty in a class of 10.
College Strike - habmann - 03-08-2006
nass,Mar 7 2006, 05:05 PM Wrote:I don't think this smaller class sizes will help THAT much. A s***ty teacher in a class of 100 is just as s***ty in a class of 10.
[right][snapback]173768[/snapback][/right]
I couldn't agree more. A good teacher will find a way to help the students that need help regardless of whether they have 10 students or 100 students.
College Strike - darkpuppet - 03-08-2006
I honestly think that if the teachers want to reduce their workload, they should give up that cushy 12% raise they got.
Why get paid more for doing less work and then say it's for the betterment of the students? Right now, the benefits of this strike sit mainly on the teacher's side, no one else's.
College Strike - MAlby7 - 03-09-2006
Ya I'm @ Humber and I have a bad feeling that this strike will hurts the students more than help them!
College Strike - habmann - 03-09-2006
Ya I think this could be a long strike. Hopefully the government will step in and send them back before it screws up the semester.