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+--- Thread: Cam Gears / Or Tb (/showthread.php?tid=17786)
Cam Gears / Or Tb - fallen32 - 03-21-2004
Hey guys have a question I have just finshed my udp install (not bad bang for the buck) . I need to know what to do next , I was thinking cam gears or tb .I need to know if I go with Cam gears what am I looking at to tune them and were I can get it done without having to take a huge kick in the wallet,or should I go with the TB I dont know what kind of HP gains I would be looking at.
Thanks
Fallen
:unsure:
CAR MODS / UDP, FOCUS SPORT HEADER, INTAKE , NITROUS , EXHAUST 2.25 ,DOWNPIPE. 9M FORD RACING WIRES ,FK SUSPENSION, STEEDA SHORT SHIFTER , HELLA LIGHT.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - yeloZX3 - 03-21-2004
in my opinion, I would suggest you do the cams and cam gear at the same time if you are going to get cams.
also, without tuning cam gears are quite useless but tuning will depend on what modifications you have done to the car, tuning will probaboly be the last part of the modification because tunning cost you some $$$ on the dyno unless you don't mind paying the tunning cost again in the very near future.
so I suggest TB first.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - Focus Is Art - 03-21-2004
Cam gear as you can pot the hell out of ur TB. CG will give you better gain.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - Zoom - 03-21-2004
You cannot "port" your stock throttle body. All you can do is change the interior and smooth it down. When it boils down to it, the butterfly is still the same size, and in essence will take in the same amount of air. The idea of "porting" your throttle body is to make it bigger, but you're not doing that....
The bottle neck effect does not go away. You don't make your TB take in any more air. So how can you call this "porting" ?
Cam Gears / Or Tb - 01-yellow-ZX3 - 03-21-2004
Quote:the butterfly is still the same size, and in essence will take in the same amount of air. The idea of "porting" your throttle body is to make it bigger, but you're not doing that....
Totally untrue.
Why do you think people do this then? For fun?
The stock TB isn't necessarily taking more air in, but its definitely taking more air in EARLIER. Thats why throttle response is increased, and this is why people spend the time to do this.
The stock TB on a Focus is what 57 mm? But, a few of these mm's are affected by the huge lip on the stock TB. For anybody thats actually seen a stock throttle body, they know what I'm talking about. By porting a stock tb, you're not increasing that stock 57 mm, but you are taking away that lip, in return gaining some more air coming in.
I've driven a Focus with an aftermarket TB and a ported stock TB. I would never spend the extra money to get the aftermarket over a stock ported. If I were you, I'd definitely buy a set of cam gears. Do some research and find the hp/tq increases people have gotten with dyno tuned cam gears, its amazing.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - Clutch - 03-22-2004
You guys are on CRACK! You can't "Port" your t/b because your not changing the butterfly size!!! I agree, that yes you can smooth out the casting to help decrease the air turbulence, but I wouldn't agree with the "Size" gain. That lip inside the t/b is for your benefit. Its there to help seal the t/b on idle. I wouldn't recommend removing it, if your going to be tuning your air/fuel in the future, as this would cause problems with air flow readings. (setting your base calibration off)
Don't get the cam gears until you have your other "mods" done, then if your going to do some pulls on the dyno, that is where you will be able to make the most from your investment.
I'm not trying to badmouth anyone, just my $0.02 from what I've learned...
Cam Gears / Or Tb - Blackzx3 - 03-22-2004
It depends on what other things you are planning on doing in the future. As well I would check into what changing your timing with cam gears will do when you hit the little button. I would recommend going onto focaljet and talking to some of the people over there running nitrous to find out what they recommend.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - dad - 03-22-2004
ya know what ...I have heard all the stuff on porting your throttle body and I think it goes both ways ....
I do believe that the ported throttle body will introduce a little more air sooner than a stock throttle body, so if jumping from the start is all you think you need out of this than do it because it is cheap and effective for this and this only...
now what you have too ask yourself is how can this be of benefit too you under most driving ( read moving) conditions....you are all ready out of the rpm range that the porting will do you any good and yes you now have a bottle neck as compared too an after market unit of lets say 65mm....
I have spent the money on the Focus Central unit for my zx5....It has been a kick ass mod. In particular and most importantly when you are just slightly under the oppertune power range you can kick it and the return into power is excellent. I do think you have to qualify your needs here...what I mean is this...
for me , I drive sprited 90% of the time, handling is of absolute importance and with handling what falls directly second too that ( and to support that) is throttle response. Vertually all the "performance" mods (if you can say that about a Focus) have been done too support a better more usable right pedal both in acceleration and decelleration...if this is your needs than it is important to have the bigger throttle body ...
Now having said that by no means is my Focus any where close to being the fastest around ...but it may be one of the most drivable from a toss it into a corner pont of view...
Cam Gears / Or Tb - 01-yellow-ZX3 - 03-22-2004
Quote: That lip inside the t/b is for your benefit. Its there to help seal the t/b on idle. I wouldn't recommend removing it, if your going to be tuning your air/fuel in the future, as this would cause problems with air flow readings. (setting your base calibration off)
What?? Have you ever seen a stock Focus throttle body?
The lip is no where near the butterfly, and has nothing to do with the idle. Our cars are fuel injected last time I checked, and can adapt to the increase of air at lower rpm's.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - Paparoach - 03-25-2004
Buying a 65mm throttle body should be one of you last mods...plain and simple.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - atomic - 03-25-2004
fallen32,Mar 20 2004, 08:51 PM Wrote:Hey guys have a question I have just finshed my udp install (not bad bang for the buck) . I need to know what to do next , I was thinking cam gears or tb .I need to know if I go with Cam gears what am I looking at to tune them and were I can get it done without having to take a huge kick in the wallet,or should I go with the TB I dont know what kind of HP gains I would be looking at.cam gaers.
Thanks
Fallen
:unsure:
CAR MODS / UDP, FOCUS SPORT HEADER, INTAKE , NITROUS , EXHAUST 2.25 ,DOWNPIPE. 9M FORD RACING WIRES ,FK SUSPENSION, STEEDA SHORT SHIFTER , HELLA LIGHT.
don't worry about your tb . that is the least of your worries.
(the problem with most motors [after cai install] isn't getting air into you motor, it's getting exhaust out. hence cam gears, exhaust & orp. they are limited due to emission standards)
porting is useless of your TB unless there are any obstructions (notches) in the way . on my zx3 there was no need to port cuase no notches there . the svt has a notch but it makes no difference .
your best bangs for the buck are:
CAI
Cam Gears (exhaust only on svt)
exhaust
ORP
and if you have a ZX3, bring it to http://www.diabloperformance.com and have him program you a custom chip on his dyno.
Cam Gears / Or Tb - darkpuppet - 03-25-2004
another vote for cam gears here... save the throttle body until your car is a bit more heavily modified.
The variances in the stock cam gears give a variance on performance in the 5-15HP range.. so being able to tune your camgears will allow you to free up what the factory variance gives you.
In fact, you'll probably free up more HP and TQ with camgears than with a CAI or exhaust. (and if you have either, being able to tune your camgears to the properties of the CAI or exhaust is handy).
The only problem with camgears is that you're going to need a dyno...and the hourly rates for these things is crazy....
on a side note, I may be setting up a dyno tune day when I get my SCT (not ordered yet)... it will only be for about 3 cars, since you'd be able to do a run, take the car off, and take some time to tweak your tune while the other cars take their turns on the dyno..might cut costs a bit... otherwise I fully expect to spend a full day at a dyno..
Cam Gears / Or Tb - euro - 03-25-2004
Go with the TB, you need some time on the dyno to tune the cam gears to the proper set up. Why waste dyno time for 4-7whp, do that latter or if you need to service your time belt. I'm getteing the TB, cool air intake and the 2pcs pulley kit this April, then I'm looking at the exhaust. Later trans parts and forced induction. I don't want the moon, just 200whp.