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+--- Thread: NASA ghetto heat buster intake (/showthread.php?tid=18171)
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NASA ghetto heat buster intake - ZTWsquared - 07-09-2010
So with the latest heat wave there's a lot of talk about underhood temps and intake air temps ... and that is especially true if you have a Jackson Raicing supercharger as I found out the hard way a week ago on the dyno.
So, in addition to fixing the water meth injection system, I decided to go NASA on my stock SVT intake and ghetto'd up an insulation package using a combination of dynamat x-treme and aluminum foil bubble insulation. The butt dyno says it really works.
Went from this ...
![[Image: P1000480.jpg]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d84/ztwsquared/P1000480.jpg)
to this ... (you can see the new water meth injector location on the intake tube)
![[Image: P1000512.jpg]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d84/ztwsquared/P1000512.jpg)
... and here's the water meth pump and tank in the spare wheel well.
![[Image: P1000515.jpg]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d84/ztwsquared/P1000515.jpg)
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - WuNgUnSVT - 07-09-2010
Nice work!!! I've done similar insulating on my motorcycles air-boxes/under tank, and it helps for sure...
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - darkpuppet - 07-09-2010
haha, shiny! good stuff man.. managing those IATs is going to be a fulltime job with that JRSC... waiting for you to start punching holes in the hood now...
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - hardk0re - 07-09-2010
Got any datalogs on how much this drops the temperature on your IAT's?
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - NefCanuck - 07-10-2010
Interesting addition ZTW, dunno how well it'll work at full boil on a track day, should be interesting to find out
NefCanuck
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - meford4u - 07-10-2010
Your wife called, she wants her tin foil back for the baked potatoes.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - darkpuppet - 07-10-2010
quick question.. is your meth injection before your IAT sensor?
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - GFXjamie - 07-10-2010
IAT should be build in the supercharger now because you want the IAT of the compressed air because it raises the temps. thats how every boosted set up i have seen is anyways
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - darkpuppet - 07-10-2010
that's very true... I would, from a tuning perspective hope that the meth has a chance to cool the charge before the IAT tho, so the computer can reliably determine the true IAT it's working with.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - GFXjamie - 07-10-2010
well ya, thats whole point of it to pull more timing, make more power while still staying at a safe level and IAT range. mind you, i would tune with an without it, that way if for some reason you run out... your not SOL and going to pop a motor
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - darkpuppet - 07-10-2010
Your tune should be able to adjust for high and low IATs.. that's what those spark/fuel modifier tables are for
You can adjust your timing depending on IAT, Coolant temp, etc.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - GFXjamie - 07-10-2010
correct, however the stock ecu will only pull and add so much timing thats why you need full tuning done to support real gains hp wise with the WMI
and by real, i dont mean 3whp, i mean having it as somewhat of a power adder to the tune of 15+ whp
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - ZTWsquared - 07-10-2010
(07-10-2010, 01:16 AM)meford4u Wrote: Your wife called, she wants her tin foil back for the baked potatoes.
As with all good marriages we're going to compromise ... I go out for a blast around Caledon ... and then we bake the potatoes on the engine.
(07-10-2010, 01:29 AM)darkpuppet Wrote: quick question.. is your meth injection before your IAT sensor?
Yes ... it's actually now just before the throttle body ... and yes, the IAT sensor is now moved to the body of the supercharger ... the two locations are strategic in that the water-meth needs a good chance to fully atomize and cool the charge and cool the supercharger itself ... and the IAT sensor is located so that it will "see" the change in temp, in addition to providing real temps, instead of artificially low as would be the case if the IAT sensor were still in the MAF.
That's last bit is a double edge sword because the addition of water meth really richens the mixture, and some tuners are loath to lean the gas out, they'd rather reduce the water-meth ... which in turn means a reduction in cooling-effect, which in turn means the ECU pulls timing ... and so around it goes.
Fortunately I convinced Pat to give me control over the WOT A/F and timing - and that's all I will say about that.
So the results are in and they are disappointing. Pat significantly reduced the water-meth ratio to keep the a/f "right", so IAT's remained a problem, although way down from the last time ... and it seems that the s/c isn't pushing more than 4 to 5 psi - although the bbk is supposed to push up to 7 or 8 IIRC. The bypass valve seems to be working correctly (holds a vacuum fine and the actuator rod moves well) ... so I'm currently at a loss as to why the low boost
Anyway ... the bad news is peak HP is just 150, and tq is 160 ... the torque peaks at just 2800 rpm and holds well past 6000 - so the actual feel is that it simply pulls and pulls and pulls. It's actually very satisfying to drive.
The 7000 redline comes up stupid fast in first, and second gear at 100 seems to come in just a couple more seconds. Third pulls just as strongly and I let up well before the redline for obvious reasons .
I know that the stock SVT intake and exhaust are something of a restriction - but hey, a good running SVT will make my numbers no problem - so overall I'd say that so far it's been a bit of a bust. The proof of the pudding will be at Calabogie just next weekend.
Having said that - I have the ability to tweak the timing, the WOT A/F and of course the water meth ... so perhaps there's more to the story yet to come.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - hardk0re - 07-10-2010
Is there any head work done to the motor? also have you done a leakdown test/compression test prior to everything?
If your going by your gauge, it is possible the gauge is not reading 100% too, if you have a 2nd gauge to check against that would eliminate that out of the equation...
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - buzz2.0 - 07-10-2010
the tin man called he wants his underwear back!...
how come you don't use a intake tube/ cone filter setup?...or are your going with a stealthy look using the OEM airbox?? lol
(07-10-2010, 01:16 AM)meford4u Wrote: Your wife called, she wants her tin foil back for the baked potatoes.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - Spinal - 07-10-2010
only 150 hp ken? i thought it'd be at least crowding the 200 barrier
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - meford4u - 07-10-2010
Those numbers are close to what we are pushing without the water injection and a standard tune.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - darkpuppet - 07-11-2010
(07-10-2010, 07:47 AM)ZTWsquared Wrote: That's last bit is a double edge sword because the addition of water meth really richens the mixture, and some tuners are loath to lean the gas out, they'd rather reduce the water-meth ... which in turn means a reduction in cooling-effect, which in turn means the ECU pulls timing ... and so around it goes.
Fortunately I convinced Pat to give me control over the WOT A/F and timing - and that's all I will say about that.
Do you have a wideband O2 sensor?
If so, I'd go ahead and lean out your fuel at WOT -- I would think you should be able to aim for a 12:1 ratio under water meth and be perfectly safe...
Not to mention you should be able to increase your timing as well. It would take some maths to figure out, but the octane increase of the water/meth injection would provide an almost equal (or greater) benefit than the cooling effect... and this is where a knowledgeable tuner comes in -- because they should be upping your timing as if you ARE running a higher octane under WOT.
If you're seeing a seemingly significant rich burn, it could be either too much water/meth or an incomplete burn from the increased octane...
unfortunately, I don't have any hands-on tuning experience with water meth, so I don't know what the spark tables should look like...though, I wouldn't mind seeing what you have -- could be something obvious.
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - GFXjamie - 07-11-2010
shoot randy a pm and see if he can look at some datalogs and see if something can be tweaked better. i know the JRSC can make more power then that, even if running stock bits on the car. that just doesnt seem right...
i was expecting a good 160+ WHP w/o WMI and with it 170+ whp. im sure its the tuner to be honest...
RE: NASA ghetto heat buster intake - ZTWsquared - 07-11-2010
(07-11-2010, 01:07 AM)GFXjamie Wrote: shoot randy a pm and see if he can look at some datalogs and see if something can be tweaked better. i know the JRSC can make more power then that, even if running stock bits on the car. that just doesnt seem right...
i was expecting a good 160+ WHP w/o WMI and with it 170+ whp. im sure its the tuner to be honest...
Yup - me too. I'm usually a pretty realistic guy when it comes to stuff like this, and I was seriously disappointed.
Having said that ... I did what Steve suggested all last night and fiddled with the fuel, timing and water-meth ... and the car is making waaaay more power now.
The wideband made it possible ... and the sensor is in a good location sampling the exhaust from all four cylinders so I have a high degree of confidence in its accuracy.
And so with quite a bit less fuel, quite a bit more water meth and more timing - the WOT A/F is still at 11:0 to 1 (which is where Pat said he wanted it to be) and the car is much, much stronger.
Having said that ... I only had +4 degrees of timing and -6% fuel to work with and the water meth (smallest injector) is wide open - so I'm basically done with the parameters I have control over.
Having said that - the car feels like it has a lot more to give ... it is very quiet, runs very smooth and feels very unstressed ... so with more water meth, a bit less fuel and more timing, I'll bet it could be even stronger. It still has bags of torque right off idle and to Pat's credit the power curve is absolutely straight right up to the red line ... so the feeling is that it continues to pull hard all the way.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone ... I still think I have more work to do ... not sure paying a tuner and basically being at their mercy is in my future however ... I think it more likely I will buy the appropriate software and learn how to tune the fofo myself.