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Brake help needed... - reldridge - 07-29-2010
Last summer, I did a front brake job on my Focus. I used the Raybestos Nascar Performance pads and ATE Premium One rotors (mildly slotted) from Canadian Tire. About two weeks later, I started getting a weird intermittent brake 'grinding' feel. It's a vibration/noise, coming from the front end only. It is completely intermittent, but seems to depend more on speed and heat in the brakes. The brakes don't seem to 'bite' as well as normal when I get the vibration/noise. I happens more when slowing down from speed (80+ km/h), and barely happens around town, unless there is heat in the brakes already.
I have since re-lubed the sliders multiple times, and it seems to help for a week or so. It could be just the taking them apart/putting them back on that helps. I have checked the pads (still lots of meat, no weird heat scoring or anything) and the rotors (no excess wear grooves, etc.). All of the slider pins look straight, and since it happened right after a brake job, I tend to think either the pads or rotors are at fault. I'm pretty sure it's not a warped rotor, as it would be happening at all speeds/temperatures, and I'd feel more of a pulsation back through the pedal.
I'm getting stumped trying to wrap my head around it. I basically have 3 options I figure...
1) replace the pads (They are damn hard anyway, and I'm not that impressed. This is what I am leaning towards)
2) replace the rotors (I'd like to avoid this, as they were freaking expensive, and are still straight/true, with lots of life left)
3) replace the slider pins and boots (Assuming one is bent and I can't tell, causing the caliper to bind on the hub)
I called NoLimits (performance store here in Ottawa), and Scott has some damn good prices on Eurorotor stuff. It might be worth swapping the whole shebang just as an experiment.
Anybody think of anything I'm missing? Opinions on where I should start? Has anybody tried the Eurorotor F1 Friction pads?
Thanks guys!
-Ryan
RE: Brake help needed... - Scorcher000 - 07-29-2010
Raybestos thats the problem. they are good but not good at the same time cheap product = a cheap price
These guys here are the real deal for premium product for cheap price
http://www.r1concepts.com
email them and they can do a paypal quote with shipping included.
Awesome brakes. 70,xxx+ on them and I am not easy on them. Still looking full on the fronts. And I only got teh E-line version of them too. The Cheapos they make.
RE: Brake help needed... - GFXjamie - 07-29-2010
did you do the brake bedding in process when you did them? i had this issue when i did my powerslots and HPS pads, had a sticking caliper because the brake pads would almost stick to the rotor in a sense
RE: Brake help needed... - reldridge - 07-29-2010
(07-29-2010, 06:08 AM)GFXjamie Wrote: did you do the brake bedding in process when you did them? i had this issue when i did my powerslots and HPS pads, had a sticking caliper because the brake pads would almost stick to the rotor in a sense
To me, that would be the case if it happened when the brakes were released, but it only happens when the brakes are applied.
RE: Brake help needed... - hardk0re - 07-29-2010
I had the same problems with my EBC brakes on my old focus, both sets odd grinding noises.. I blame slotted rotors, never had a problem with blanks.
RE: Brake help needed... - reldridge - 07-29-2010
Hmmm. Maybe I should swap rotors too, as a test. I can get Eurorotor blanks for $26 a piece.
RE: Brake help needed... - ZTWsquared - 07-29-2010
(07-29-2010, 10:39 PM)reldridge Wrote: Hmmm. Maybe I should swap rotors too, as a test. I can get Eurorotor blanks for $26 a piece.
I don't know if this is at all related to your situation ... but after I installed my SVT brakes on the ZX5 ... I felt they were grinding a bit ... not so much grinding as I could feel grinding-like vibration ... this is full stock and brand new rotors and pads ... but the car stopped fantastic and I lived with it.
The funny thing is the first time I put my track rims and tires on, there was absolutely no vibration at all ... zero ... nada ... seriously the brakes felt beautiful ... put the street Dunlops back on - grinding's back - just when braking.
I have no explanation and doubt it's helpful ... but you never know.
RE: Brake help needed... - NefCanuck - 07-30-2010
My car does this with the EBC slotted & dimpled rotors and Hawk pads.
But it stops like I threw out a boat anchor wehen I hammer the brakes so I live with it
NefCanuck
RE: Brake help needed... - Chromey - 07-30-2010
Same for me with Slotted dimpled and Powerstop pads.
But Damn I can stop on a dime.
RE: Brake help needed... - reldridge - 07-30-2010
Part of the issue is that when it makes the noise/vibration, the brakes seem to have less grip. If the performance was there, I'd put up with the noise.
Luckily, I haven't had any really heavy panic brake situations lately.
RE: Brake help needed... - sonic_mikey - 07-30-2010
EBC writes right on the box that there rotors are loud as f**k lol, even go as far as to call it a 'warning' hahahah
RE: Brake help needed... - Chromey - 07-30-2010
I wonder if the pads your running get glazed.
RE: Brake help needed... - reldridge - 07-31-2010
I'll check that when I replace them this weekend. Hopefully I'll get time to do it tomorrow night.
RE: Brake help needed... - darkpuppet - 07-31-2010
(07-30-2010, 01:29 PM)reldridge Wrote: Part of the issue is that when it makes the noise/vibration, the brakes seem to have less grip. If the performance was there, I'd put up with the noise.Luckily, I haven't had any really heavy panic brake situations lately.
Could you hit up an empty parking lot to do some testing? go in, let the brakes cool, try a panic stop or two... and warm them up, see when it grinds, what you stopping distance is.. etc.. bring something to put down (or use shopping carts) to accurately measure the distances.
Could be that it only feels like it's not stopping when grinding because you're backing down from the grinding. -- just a thought of course.
RE: Brake help needed... - Mystake - 08-03-2010
(07-29-2010, 11:10 PM)ZTWsquared Wrote:(07-29-2010, 10:39 PM)reldridge Wrote: Hmmm. Maybe I should swap rotors too, as a test. I can get Eurorotor blanks for $26 a piece.
I don't know if this is at all related to your situation ... but after I installed my SVT brakes on the ZX5 ... I felt they were grinding a bit ... not so much grinding as I could feel grinding-like vibration ... this is full stock and brand new rotors and pads ... but the car stopped fantastic and I lived with it.
The funny thing is the first time I put my track rims and tires on, there was absolutely no vibration at all ... zero ... nada ... seriously the brakes felt beautiful ... put the street Dunlops back on - grinding's back - just when braking.
I have no explanation and doubt it's helpful ... but you never know.
sure it wasn't the brakes heating up and expanding and touching into something?
RE: Brake help needed... - reldridge - 08-06-2010
Ok, so last night I finally took the time to swap pads.
My god, the ones I took off were sh!te! Hard as a rock, no chamfering, and no groove cut down the middle. I used the 3m green pad on my drill to remove all rust/brake dust from my rotors, and then went over them with 180 grit sand paper. I cleaned the rotors with brake cleaner, and used my two foot level (nice straight edge) to make sure they were 'true'. Brake 'bite' was immediately better with the new pads and fresh rotor surface , but the vibration is still there. Maybe it's the price I pay for grooved/slotted rotors?
Also, while on my 20 minute bed-in run, I noticed some brake fade about 10 minutes in. They still worked, but pedal travel was more pronounced. It went away when things cooled down a bit. I had just finished 3 or 4 'slow-downs' from 90-100 to 35-40. Should that have been expected, or did I boil my brake fluid? I know it is due for a change, and will be changed one day next week, as I'm on holidays. Hopefully that will get rid of the fade. Any suggestions on brake fluid, or should I just stick with Canadian Tire stuff, as it's my DD?
-Ryan
RE: Brake help needed... - moon111 - 08-06-2010
When I first started going over my brakes, something didn't look right on the passenger side caliper. It seemed like the slider pin was mounted square, but wasn't coming out at the same angle as the one on the bottom. I took it out and put it in backwards on the wrong side to chase the treads out and then carefully put in back in properly. Now, the caliper slides back and forth with ease.
RE: Brake help needed... - ZTWsquared - 08-06-2010
(08-06-2010, 12:11 AM)reldridge Wrote: Ok, so last night I finally took the time to swap pads.
Also, while on my 20 minute bed-in run, I noticed some brake fade about 10 minutes in. They still worked, but pedal travel was more pronounced. It went away when things cooled down a bit. I had just finished 3 or 4 'slow-downs' from 90-100 to 35-40. Should that have been expected, or did I boil my brake fluid? I know it is due for a change, and will be changed one day next week, as I'm on holidays. Hopefully that will get rid of the fade. Any suggestions on brake fluid, or should I just stick with Canadian Tire stuff, as it's my DD?
-Ryan
Brake fluid is hydroscopic (attracts water) ... and over a period of time brake fluid becomes contaminated with water ... and even though it's in microscopic amounts, it is usually the water in brake fluid that boils and causes the soft pedal and increased travel.
That's why fresh fluid every couple of years is a good idea ... IMO.
Additionally - the flex lines become softer over time (relatively speaking - nothing you would notice by inspecting them) ... and that too would contribute to soft pedal and increased pedal travel.
RE: Brake help needed... - sonic_mikey - 08-06-2010
(08-06-2010, 12:16 PM)ZTWsquared Wrote: Brake fluid is hydroscopic (attracts water) ... and over a period of time brake fluid becomes contaminated with water ... and even though it's in microscopic amounts, it is usually the water in brake fluid that boils and causes the soft pedal and increased travel.
That's why fresh fluid every couple of years is a good idea ... IMO.
Additionally - the flex lines become softer over time (relatively speaking - nothing you would notice by inspecting them) ... and that too would contribute to soft pedal and increased pedal travel.
+1, brake fluid accumulates 2% water every year and @ just 4% will turn ford DOT3 (500F boiling point) in to something along the lines of 350-400F, which will create a noticeable difference
RE: Brake help needed... - NefCanuck - 08-06-2010
Okay that begs a question...
In theory anyways, the braking system is a "closed" system so water should not be able to be absorbed by the brake fluid.
What are the points of entry for moisture?
I assume the rubber brake lines is a big one since rubber is not 100% air tight, but where else?
Wondering if throwing stainless steel brake lines on the Fusion would be worth it in terms of slowing down the moisture accumulation of the fluid.
NefCanuck