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+--- Thread: Whats The Diff? (/showthread.php?tid=6600)
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Whats The Diff? - ZED_not_zee - 02-22-2007
ok so I want to upgrade my MTX75, posibly stronger gears in 1-4 with a straighter cut ie "the wine"
and a Diff upgrade
there are three main options that come to mind:
T2 torson (ford racing)
Quaiff (ford RS)
or "phantom grip" (SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper alternative to the above)
what are your experiances / opinions...
I want it for:
Road racing Auto cross.. and posibly rally some day...
considering each one of these units is the equivelent cost of a bumpin system the quaif should blow my windows out no? lol
any input is appreiciated,
Cheers
AL
Whats The Diff? - hardk0re - 02-22-2007
How much power are you putting down? If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Don't even waste your time with a phantom grip
Get some power, then worry about transmission.
Whats The Diff? - installman - 02-22-2007
hardk0re,Feb 22 2007, 10:37 AM Wrote:How much power are you putting down? If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Don't even waste your time with a phantom grip
Get some power, then worry about transmission.
[right][snapback]227699[/snapback][/right]
If you're into autox it's going to make a difference no matter what power you run. I couldn't imagine my car without the Quaife, it's awesome. No torque steer, pulls hard through a coner and leaves the line solid.
Quaife! :banger:
Whats The Diff? - hardk0re - 02-22-2007
The stock motor has enough torque to cause torque steer?
Whats The Diff? - Flofocus - 02-22-2007
hardkore and I run the T2. I love it, dont know how I was driving boosted without one!!
Whats The Diff? - Flofocus - 02-22-2007
Dont bother with the phantom.
Quaife has a lifetime warranty, the T2 doesnt. Though, I've never heard of somebody braking either part.
The Torsen is a 3 to 1 biasing ratio where the Quaife is a 2 to 1 ratio. As far as power rating, the Torsen would be good up to 400 or 500 whp while the Quaife even more - maybe to 700 or even 800 whp (according to Chris at Lentech).
Whats The Diff? - installman - 02-23-2007
hardk0re,Feb 22 2007, 07:59 PM Wrote:The stock motor has enough torque to cause torque steer?
[right][snapback]227731[/snapback][/right]
Who said anything about my motor being stock?
Whats The Diff? - Flofocus - 02-23-2007
oh and seriously, SCREW the system. Put that moola in your engine.
Whats The Diff? - hardk0re - 02-23-2007
installman,Feb 22 2007, 10:30 AM Wrote:hardk0re,Feb 22 2007, 07:59 PM Wrote:The stock motor has enough torque to cause torque steer?
[right][snapback]227731[/snapback][/right]
Who said anything about my motor being stock?
[right][snapback]227756[/snapback][/right]
You replied to:
Quote:If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Anything less is stockish :lol:
Honestly, get power before diff is all i'm saying.....
Whats The Diff? - ZED_not_zee - 02-23-2007
Actually I'm from a diffrent school of thought on that one,,, why would I wast mony on power that's not going to get to the ground? the whol idea is to have a car with the proper archetecture to handle more power. as far is off the line traction I just bought a set of lake wood traction bars,,, and alredy have full suspension... I'm more intrested in the handling advantages of a torqu biasing diff...
T2 3:1
Quaif 2:1 intersting I did not know that.
Whats The Diff? - Flofocus - 02-23-2007
lol, before my tranny was built & I got better tires, I couldnt hold down 180trq worth s***. Built tranny, sticky tires, make for excellent traction. Even with over 200trq at the wheels. I'm thinking what your thinking is because you havent driven a boosted focus. :P Dont get me wrong...I love the focus, the handling aspect was one of my favorites things about it when it was midly modded (NA), but imagine having the power to match the great suspension in this car. Its like a sore dick, you just can't beat it. :lol:
Whats The Diff? - hardk0re - 02-23-2007
I was thinking about those traction bars myself, BUT allot of guys told me they would not benefit me on anything but 1/4 mile. I never got enough straight answers, I looked into them as stopping my wheel hop on the 1/4 but didn't think that sacrificing cornering would be worth the reduction in bunny hop. Like I said I never got real solid answers so I never really pursued it much more. Wheel hop really decreased with torsen and all 3 polly bushings.
My reasoning to adding performance first would be that your going to tear down the transmission, so you'll likely want to change your gearing that will accompany your power levels of torque/hp. If your staying N/A you'll want something 4.06, if your turbo you'll want something like maybe 3.50 for taller gears. You'll also want to add a clutch that will handle the power your adding. Ripping out the trans is going to cost so why not do everything at once?
Whats The Diff? - ZX3TUNING - 02-23-2007
the only reason to drop your gearing in a focus is because you either cannot drive or because you are trapping at such a high speed that you're shifting at the line killing time to keep accelerating.
4.06s and a Quaife with a good clutch in ANY focus works well.
as for the differences between the 3.... it's mostly been covered already
STAY AWAY from the phantom grip.
the FR difs are better for a Road racing application but have a lower power limit of between 400-500lb/ft and no warrenty.
the Quaifes will work EXTREMELY well in every situation and are probably better suited for wet/snow weather driving here in Canada than a FR, because of the biasing. imho atleast. the power limit is beyond that of what is reasonably possible with a Zetec but maybe not with a duratech. not that it would matter, if you could afford to max out either the Quaife or the focus you probably would not own a focus in the first place and would have a nice stable of cars to play with! ;)
the torque Biasing of the Quaife is a little better suited for the strip than the FR but will not let you down on the road course or AutoX either.
i've driving lots of powerfull Zetecs with the FRs or Quaifes and you would be hard pressed to feel a difference between the 2 unless both cars were set up EXACTLY the same, even then you'd need to be one hell of a drive to find the differences. So i would say go with which ever is cheaper.
i'm selling the Zetec FRs for $780cnd plus tax and ship.
last i check the Quaifes have been jumping around in price and my most current price sheet has them at $950cnd for the Zetec unit. but that may have come down since then.
i run 4.06s with 220lb/ft without issues as do all the guys outside of NA with turbo or SC'ed Zetecs... it's a matter of driving and driving skill.
build to your goals and learn to drive it.
oh and i commend you for doing your build the right way, build for power BEFORE the power! not the other way around.... to many people get it wrong then can never get the most out of the car untill to fix the oversights! ;)
Whats The Diff? - installman - 02-23-2007
Quote:If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Anything less is stockish :lol:
Honestly, get power before diff is all i'm saying.....
[right][snapback]227763[/snapback][/right]
290Whp, 320Tq :D
Whats The Diff? - Flofocus - 02-24-2007
installman,Feb 22 2007, 11:41 PM Wrote:Quote:If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Anything less is stockishÃÂ :lol:
Honestly, get power before diff is all i'm saying.....
[right][snapback]227763[/snapback][/right]
290Whp, 320Tq :D
[right][snapback]227861[/snapback][/right]
imagine that power with an open dif. :blink:
Whats The Diff? - hardk0re - 02-24-2007
installman,Feb 22 2007, 11:41 PM Wrote:Quote:If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Anything less is stockish :lol:
Honestly, get power before diff is all i'm saying.....
[right][snapback]227763[/snapback][/right]
290Whp, 320Tq :D
[right][snapback]227861[/snapback][/right]
Whats the setup?
edit: NM, I found it, sweet setup too....btw with that tq you'll definetly see torque steer! haha
Whats The Diff? - ZED_not_zee - 02-24-2007
ZX3TUNING,Feb 22 2007, 08:27 PM Wrote:oh and i commend you for doing your build the right way, build for power BEFORE the power! not the other way around.... to many people get it wrong then can never get the most out of the car untill to fix the oversights! ;)
[right][snapback]227848[/snapback][/right]
Thanks,,
Whats The Diff? - installman - 02-24-2007
hardk0re,Feb 24 2007, 12:28 AM Wrote:installman,Feb 22 2007, 11:41 PM Wrote:Quote:If you don't have 200+whp your not going to get much benefit.
Anything less is stockishÃÂ :lol:
Honestly, get power before diff is all i'm saying.....
[right][snapback]227763[/snapback][/right]
290Whp, 320Tq :D
[right][snapback]227861[/snapback][/right]
Whats the setup?
edit: NM, I found it, sweet setup too....btw with that tq you'll definetly see torque steer! haha
[right][snapback]227892[/snapback][/right]
It's definitely a lot of fun. Just pulled it out for the first time this year. Going to be heading to my tuner in Van and turning up the boost from 12.5 to 20, can't wait!!
Whats The Diff? - NikiterZTS - 02-24-2007
^^^that car is a yellow beast!!! :o
do you have the shots of the whole car?
Whats The Diff? - installman - 02-24-2007
NikiterZTS,Feb 24 2007, 03:00 AM Wrote:^^^that car is a yellow beast!!! :o
do you have the shots of the whole car?
[right][snapback]227902[/snapback][/right]
It's funny but at the moment I don't. I've just taken off the Wings West upper wing and mid wing, time to change things up a bit. It's kinda dirty but I'll get some up in the next few days.
wings for sale if anyone interested.