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+--- Thread: What's Better? (/showthread.php?tid=7964)
What's Better? - oldeguy - 10-05-2006
Which gives better performance, ease of install, cost?
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
Ease of install? I'd say SC.
Performance? Turbo, hands down.
Cost? I'd say the same. You can get decent SC & turbo kits for under 4K now.
Do you have an auto or manual?
What's Better? - 02_svt_guy - 10-05-2006
PERFORMANCE = TURBO
EASE OF INSTALL = SUPERCHARGER
COST = TURBO CHEAPER
RELIABILITY = SUPERCHARGER INLESS TUNE ON TURBO IS FLAWLESS
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
02_svt_guy,Oct 4 2006, 10:59 AM Wrote:RELIABILITY = SUPERCHARGER INLESS TUNE ON TURBO IS FLAWLESS
COST = TURBO CHEAPER
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the tune needs to be flawless regardless of turbo or sc. Im gonna go as far and say that a turbo car is just as reliable as SC car as long as the tuning is good.
Its only cheaper if you diy and do your homework. The kits are pretty even....actually most SC kist are a little cheaper.
What's Better? - oldeguy - 10-05-2006
Flofocus,Oct 4 2006, 10:59 AM Wrote:Ease of install? I'd say SC.auto
Performance? Turbo, hands down.
Cost? I'd say the same. You can get decent SC & turbo kits for under 4K now.
Do you have an auto or manual?
[right][snapback]210048[/snapback][/right]
What's Better? - BerinG - 10-05-2006
i wonder though how much easier a supercharger is to install.. ok fnie we made DIY kits which are alot more work but when talking about full kits ready to install out of the box.. i don't think supercharger is that much "easier".. i mean you can have just a turbo without intercooler just like SC and the rest is pretty much the same.. piping might be different.. roots you need to remove the intake mani.. turbo you need to take off the exhaust mani.. injectors, maf, tune, gauges.. all teh same.. has for centrifugal, well its a turbo on a belt..
performance, i would say turbo but only in the high end.. if your only looking for 200-230whp for example.. both are similar (at least the powerworks) .. reliability well i don't know.. you do see alot more turbo cars than supercharged cars so i would say about equal..as for upgrading, turbo would be much easier unless theres an upgrade exacly for what you have already in s/c ..
tuning i agree with flow.. tuning eneds to be good on either.. boost is boost. different tuning maybe..but still.. the reason why tuning was not as important on a JRSC for example was caus it only ran like 5 psi.. and most turbos setups go over that..
as for having an automatic.. most people will steer you towards the supercahrger caus usually the ATX cannot hold has much torque as a MTX car.. and the superchargers usually (at least the JRSC) dont give has much torque as most turbos.. so its a better "match".. but you could run only 5-6 psi on either..
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
oldeguy,Oct 4 2006, 11:14 AM Wrote:Flofocus,Oct 4 2006, 10:59 AM Wrote:Ease of install?ÃÂ I'd say SC.auto
Performance?ÃÂ Turbo, hands down.
Cost?ÃÂ I'd say the same.ÃÂ You can get decent SC & turbo kits for under 4K now.
Do you have an auto or manual?
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[right][snapback]210056[/snapback][/right]
You will need to go with a SC then.
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
BerinG,Oct 4 2006, 11:15 AM Wrote:i wonder though how much easier a supercharger is to install..
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Your right, actually, the intake manifold is much more of a PITA to take off than the exhaust manifold. Theyre probably the same now that I think about it....
What's Better? - BerinG - 10-05-2006
Flofocus,Oct 4 2006, 11:21 AM Wrote:BerinG,Oct 4 2006, 11:15 AM Wrote:i wonder though how much easier a supercharger is to install..
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Your right, actually, the intake manifold is much more of a PITA to take off than the exhaust manifold. Theyre probably the same now that I think about it....
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Yeah exacly caus i had a hard time taking off my intake mani.. i mean just all the sensors and reaching the bolts.. and in the case where you use the stock exhaust manifold, you dont even need to take it off..
What's Better? - kamilk69 - 10-05-2006
turbo all the way, especially if your using the stock headers, turbo is soo much more. easier to upgrage especially if you use all t3 generic flanges, and for turbo its free power, superchargers take power to make power. and for cost i paid 800$ for my kit, of course it was a junkyard turbo but it still pushed around 180 - 200hp at 6-7psi, for 800$ u couldnt ask for more.
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
kamilk69,Oct 4 2006, 11:29 AM Wrote:turbo all the way, especially if your using the stock headers, turbo is soo much more. easier to upgrage especially if you use all t3 generic flanges, and for turbo its free power, superchargers take power to make power. and for cost i paid 800$ for my kit, of course it was a junkyard turbo but it still pushed around 180 - 200hp at 6-7psi, for 800$ u couldnt ask for more.
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Your more likely pushing 160-170 whp at that psi. Especially with what your trapping at the track
What's Better? - kamilk69 - 10-05-2006
Flofocus,Oct 4 2006, 03:35 PM Wrote:kamilk69,Oct 4 2006, 11:29 AM Wrote:turbo all the way, especially if your using the stock headers, turbo is soo much more. easier to upgrage especially if you use all t3 generic flanges, and for turbo its free power, superchargers take power to make power. and for cost i paid 800$ for my kit, of course it was a junkyard turbo but it still pushed around 180 - 200hp at 6-7psi, for 800$ u couldnt ask for more.
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Your more likely pushing 160-170 whp at that psi. Especially with what your trapping at the track
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nope the traping at the track, was becuase of the street tires, and that was my first time at the track, and i took the car on dyno without adjusting the cams and i have 184hp, 192trq then i adjusted the cams so the car drove better, but never got a dyno run for it
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
Something doesnt make sense then.
Dynojet Dyno?
Mustnag Dyno?
I put down 158Whp, 180wtrq, 2.6 60ft, 14.8 @ 98mph, last year, s***ty tune. Thats at 10psi on a td05 turbo. Street tires, not winters.
And yes, I know your turbo is bigger than mine, but if your putting down that kind of power, which was obviously more than me, you should be getting better times than that.
What's Better? - BerinG - 10-05-2006
Flofocus,Oct 4 2006, 11:45 AM Wrote:Something doesnt make sense then.
Dynojet Dyno?
Mustnag Dyno?
I put down 158Whp, 180wtrq, 2.6 60ft, 14.8 @ 98mph, last year, s***ty tune. Thats at 10psi on a td05 turbo. Street tires, not winters.
And yes, I know your turbo is bigger than mine, but if your putting down that kind of power, which was obviously more than me, you should be getting better times than that.
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what times did you get? mph ?
I did 14.7 @ 95mph at ~7psi 2.3 60 feet, no idea how much power im putting down.. this is with a t25.. not very big
What's Better? - Flofocus - 10-05-2006
in Kamils video he did 14.8@89mph.
What's Better? - NikiterZTS - 10-05-2006
if i wanna buy a used supercharger for my focus what things should i be looking at?
for exp. Powerworks
What's Better? - BerinG - 10-05-2006
Flofocus,Oct 4 2006, 12:29 PM Wrote:in Kamils video he did 14.8@89mph.
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oh ok.. yeah thats pretty low.. i remember at 5psi i went on a 40*C+ day to luskville and did 15.3 at 89mph..
What's Better? - kamilk69 - 10-05-2006
i did a 14.7 with one of the worst reaction times ive ever seen.
heres a high quallity pic
![[Image: scan0001-1.jpg]](http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h98/kamilk69/scan0001-1.jpg)
What's Better? - hardk0re - 10-05-2006
I put snows on my car and spun all the way down the rack, went back and put on my street tires and ran way way better times.
If your looking at ease of install, i'd say the roush turbo is probably easiest to install out of any boost options, and its going to give decent power.
Unfortunatly only thing that comes with a tune and supports auto is the power works kit, so just get that because its a great setup. The install however if 10 is hardest and 1 is easiest is probably a 8. Just because the intake manifold is a pain.
My s/c install was simple as pie but i had to remove the front axle to tap my oil return line :P
What's Better? - ZX3TUNING - 10-05-2006
LOL!
always fun to come into a one sided conversation newar then end.
I'm not sure what is special about running high 14s with a turbo...?
i cracked into the 14s back in `00 while NA and with less than 150fwhp and 145lb/ft.
Easy of install of any kit is all the in the kit.
a PWSC takes abour 14-18hours first time, i do it in about 10hours now.
JRSC's claim 10hours but usually it takes 12-14hours.
Vortech claimed 17hours but takes more like 30hours unless you have installed a ton of them.
Most turbo kits take about 14hours according to most sites.
there are always varriables to consider; broken parts, rusted bolts/nuts, retapping threads/holes.
As for performance, it's always interesting to see Turbo guys tout turbo's being easier to upgrade and have a higher limit.
Not always the truth.
with any system you will outgrow components and there is always a limit for how much boost a engine will take, turbo or SC.
simple facts are at about 250fwhp you are reaching the "safe" limits of wehat a Stock Zetec can hold. tuning aside, more than 250 and you are pushing your luck and that goes for turbo or NA.
"well with a Turbo it's easier to get more power and for cheaper, you just have to flip a switch or turn a nob and turn up the boost!"
while this is true, to a point, it also is not true.
flipping said switch or turning a nob only works if the tuning is there first. tuning for a dual level boost costs more and needs to be done BEFORE you turn up the boost.
with the PWSC, we are getting 250fwhp and 210lb/ft with a full exhaust (like you would have with a turbo), our cams and a retune on the stock PW 12psi pully with more power left on tap with a more agressive tune. without the retune we were seeing 10lb/ft less on stock PW tuning.... Pretty simple power.
"oh but your SC will max out before my Turbo!"
the M62 blower in the PWSC and SVT JRSC will push 18psi, however the JRSC wont do it well without intercooling.
18psi on a built motor, the right internals and a good tune will see 300+fwhp out of a PWSC.
with a T25, you are going to be maxing out your turbo at around 240-260fwhp.
i'm not familiar enough with the td05 to be able to comment on it...
the average turbo that works well with the focus in street trim will peak out at about 250-280fwhp, a few will push 300 and very few will push up to 350, well atleast that come with off "KITS".
i still fail to see the vailidity to the whole "turbos are easier to upgrade" arguement... and turbos + stock header = junk!
My $0.02