+- FocusCanada Forums (//www.focuscanada.net/forum)
+-- Forum: Canadian Focus Community (//www.focuscanada.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: From the Street (//www.focuscanada.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? (/showthread.php?tid=8845)
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - Frost__2001 - 07-20-2006
Flint: Fordâs Graveyard Fills Up
Anybody makes mistakes, but so many?
by Jerry Flint
In the old days, our car companies sometimes killed model names. Fairlane went at Ford, Bel Air went at Chevy, and who has heard of the Dodge Royal Lancer? Killing actual models - not the names, the vehicles - was rare. That's because here we're talking about killing hundreds of millions of dollars of investment, in tools and dies and brand identity.
Killing a model means failure. You did it so wrong; you've got to admit it. We remember when it happens: GM kills the Camaro, Chrysler killsPlymouth.
It's a rare thing. Except at the Ford Motor Co.
Here's a list of Ford cars and trucks killed or soon to be killed. This list goes back to 1999. Look how long it is:
Taurus (to die soon)
Sable (the Mercury Taurus, dead already)
Thunderbird (The only Ford anyone turned to see, dead)
Lincoln Blackwood (Who approved this and is he still at Ford?)
Lincoln Aviator (not bad but gone anyway)
Escort (remember the Escort? 400,000 sales, dead since 2002)
Ford Contour (the $6 million baby, the failed transplant)
Mercury Mystique (the Mercury Contour)
Continental
Excursion (the bigger they comeâ¦)
Lincoln LS (this car was murdered)
Mercury Cougar
Mercury Villager
Mercury Tracer ( the Mercury Escort , dead since 1999)
That's fourteen vehicles, and I may have missed some. I've never seen anything like it. And we know there are more to come. The Ford GT is going, and I suspect the Windstar minivan and its Mercury sidekick, the Monterey, are not long for this world. When the Wixom, Mich., plant closes I suppose the Lincoln Town Car will go. And I've never been able to figure out the plan for the Ford Freestyle, which is the new crossover (though it looks just like a station wagon) built in Chicago. One day it's going to die, then it's going to live, then there's to be a Mercury version, then there's not. I've lost track and stopped trying.
Dead in its track record
Anyone can kill a model or two. But look at the list. There are so many at Ford. Is it any wonder the company's in trouble? This list says that the Ford team has had no idea of what makes a successful car and that even if they have one they don't know how to sell it or fix its problems. I would say there are examples of both in that list.
For example, look at the Blackwood, that strange Lincoln $50,000 SUV/pickup that had no four-wheel-drive and really couldn't even work as a pickup despite the big box. That should never have been built. Whose idea was this and is he still at Ford? The Contour and Mystique, Ford's world cars, didn't work here at all. Ford always had dreamed of a world car, so I suppose that no one wanted to tell the boss that they wouldn't work here.
But the Thunderbird and the Lincoln LS are examples are cars that came out with great fanfare, were hits initially, but faded because of ineptitude at the company level. Ford just failed to improve the cars or correct the problems, and when the going got tough, Ford turned quitter, who's to say where the fresh look of the current Mustangs are going.
The Taurus, once the best-selling American car, and Mercury Sable (they sold 300,000 a year!), were well accepted by the public with good quality, too. Instead of correcting the problems, Ford quit on them.
The Excursion. Okay, it was big, but there's room for a big vehicle. Look at the Suburban.
Alas, you've got to know how to sell it, or at least care. And the Escort / Tracer? Nearly 300,000 sales just seven years ago (1999). Don't even ask. The Lincoln Aviator was another that should have been more successful. Ford just seemed to stop caring about the car.
Cars and trucks, even the successful ones, do run into problems and most automakers correct the problems. At Ford when there's a problem they seem to quit, give up, and kill the car.
What is strange is that this is a company that really knew marketing and how to sell, and had great dealers, too. Somehow the men who knew how to sell were driven from the company. Those left just don't seem to have the knack.
Ford's new plan is called the "Way Forward." They might go forward by learning from the past.
Here are some suggestions:
When a vehicle line has problems, fix them. Your former top-selling vehicles like the Focus and the Ranger have problems today. They are dying out there. Don't just sit there, fix the problems!
Expand your lineups with variety. If you have a four-door sedan (like the Lincoln LS), figure out how to build an SUV/CUV/sport wagon from it, and maybe a coupe or convertible. If you've got something that sells at Ford, get a Mercury version. The Mustang sells. Where's the Mercury Capri? Mercury was never good enough for a version of the small Focus? Why not?
If you have any belief in brand quality or brand identity, stop changing the names of the cars every minute.
And if you need more help, just ask me.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - Casper - 07-20-2006
The writer of the article is an idiot. He fails to take into account quite a few things. Evolution for one. When a model comes up for redesign, they don't always keep the name, even though the new car is by every means a successor:
The Escort was replaced with the Focus.
Aerostar-Windstar-Next minivan
Taurus-Fusion
Crown Victoria-Five Hundred
There was also the change to align the product naming with the new scheme (Cars start with F, SUV's start with E). Hence the demise of the Escort and Taurus names in favour of Focus, Fusion, Freestyle, Five Hundred. Its a clever marketing ploy to create alliteration so that the names roll off the tongue.
As for the Contour, it was, along with the Focus, an experiment. Nobody else had really brought over their Euro models and tried to sell them here (aside from the Merkurs in the 80's... that was lukewarm). The sport compact revolution was in place, and Ford wanted to see if they could cash in. Americans just cant accept a Euro American car (their loss). GM hasn't tried this... they only use Euro platforms, and put boring, crappy American bodies on them.
Other names are only resurrected for special, limited run models:
Ford GT
Thunderbird
As for anything Mercury... its now a US-only brand. It costs far too much to mantain a value-price lineup under a different marque... Ford, IMO, would be better to kill the brand completely, and simply add more trim levels to the existing Ford lineup.
Lincoln is a dying brand too. Its supposed to compete with Cadillac, but with lower quality, lower priced models. These vehicle are aimed at the Lexus-Infinity crowd. Aviator? Low sales, rebadged Explorer. Blackwood? Good attempt at cashing on in on the high truck sale volume. They found out the hard way that there isn't much demand for a luxury pickup.. people would rather spring for a King Ranch or a Harley Davidson edition F150.
In the end, there is little Ford can do to stem the losses. They're already doing better than GM, but they should also ditch Mercury, maybe Lincoln (or re-vamp it a la Cadillac) to cut costs. LESS marques is the key, not MORE like the GM menagerie. Who needs 3-4 nearly identical cars on the same platform (Cobalt/Pursuit/Ion). Bring the euro models to NA, but with some American styling cues... straight transplants don't work, but neither do NA-only models. American companies are used to paying too much to build cars stateside, and to have a larger profit margin built in to compensate. Japanese makers have perfected the art of low profit, high selling cars. Toyota and Honda make less than a grand on the Civic/Corolla/Yaris, but make up with it in volume, and customer satisfaction.
My 2c worth, at least.
PS: I've detailed, mechanic'd, and sold at car dealers before, and now I work in the leasing and financing of them (independant finance co, not business office). I was one of the first people to lobby Toyota for the Echo hactback back in 2001, years before they finally brought it over.... right when Honda killed the Civic hatch. I even suggested using the 1.5l, not the 1.0 or 1.3 used overseas....
I'm not talking out of my arse here.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - microbunny - 07-20-2006
Casper is right...
that article is stupid...obviously the guy just doesnt like Ford!
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - Crazirich - 07-21-2006
they are killing the freestar too i think... and maybe the freestyle as well.... ford will have no vans short of and Econoline
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - SVT ZX3 - 07-21-2006
Casper,Jul 19 2006, 03:21 PM Wrote:The writer of the article is an idiot. He fails to take into account quite a few things.......[right][snapback]198113[/snapback][/right]
x2, well said Casper.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - NikiterZTS - 07-21-2006
they can kill them all....but not our focus's
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - Casper - 07-22-2006
Crazirich,Jul 20 2006, 02:18 PM Wrote:they are killing the freestar too i think... and maybe the freestyle as well.... ford will have no vans short of and Econoline
[right][snapback]198240[/snapback][/right]
Ford minivans have always been decent sellers... not as popular as the Caravan, but definitely competes with the Venture.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - Frost__2001 - 07-23-2006
you know though the writer dose make a few valid points, there has been some really good models of cars from Ford, and when they started going sour Ford has let them last with minor changes to them, I really like the Taurus, it's a great car but ever since the 96 redesign blunder they styled it out better, but never really made any noticable improvements on the car, really if Ford wanted to really make a good name plate they should not have killed off the Taurus, and invested more into it like most other companys would with their flag ship name plates like the Corolla, and Accord, and so on and so forth.
It would be nice if Ford America were to take example like other branches of the company round the globe and really keep with the name plate and work with it to make it better or as good as it used to be rather then dump it when people look badly at it, like Hyundai did with it's models, and now they have gotten into the top 4 for built quality and over all owner statsfaction.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - ZX3TUNING - 07-23-2006
i think one thing you guys all seem to be forgetting is the shear stupidity and mindlessness of the buying public out there.
what sells and what doesn't sell is pretty much directly related to promotion and endorsements with moviestars/sportsstars/etc.
ford has always had their head up their ass when it comes to doing things the right way.
when the focus first came out the promoted it like gang-busters. Sponsored lots of Drag cars aswell as tuner companies and everything was amazing... for a while. then for basically no reason and almost without warning, ford pulled the plug on all of it's Focus-based sponsorship programs and every single drag car and race car disappeared. remember the Meguiars Focus? that did what, 5 passes and then was stripped and scrapped because Ford didn't feel like promoting the product anymore. it was the fastest unit-body FWD drag car ever built at that point and it wasn't even finished!?
ford has a bad nack for doing this and will probably continue to do so untill they ultimately fail and the company goes under.
this was posted on the focusBC forum:
Quote:What the hell is Ford thinking!! They have allready gone after some of the big names first that have Mustang in their name. And.... its going to trickle down to other brand names too!! Some have allready closed shop because of it!
What I dont get is they are going after the very people that make that specific brand name more viable?! The aftermarket brings value to their brand and makes it more apealing to the tuning/aftermarket crowd! Thats what drives sales of these cars??! I just dont get it!??
See attached!
Little did Donald know when he wrote this edtiorial that it would be stirring up the Mustang world the way it has. To alleviate any questions people may have about the editorial, we now post it as it appears in the June 2006 issue of Mustang Monthly.
Some of your favorite Mustang parts companies are facing serious legal action, serious enough to possibly put some of them out of business, and it's coming from the most unlikely of sources: Ford Motor Company.
Over the past few months, a number of major Mustang parts companies have received a letter from Howard, Phillips, and Andersen, a Salt Lake City law office that represents Ford on trademark and anticybersquatting enforcement matters. Loaded with legalese, the four-page document boiled down to a couple of important demands: transfer to Ford any Internet domain name containing the word Mustang and, worse, discontinue using Mustang in the company name. In other words, many of the companies that you and I purchase Mustang parts from are being told to change their names or face a Ford-powered lawsuit seeking $100,000 in damages.
The letter also demands that the companies turn over for destruction all signs, banners, business cards, stationary, and so on, that use Mustang in the company name, along with a cashier's check for $5,000 in damages. One company was given less than two weeks to comply, and another has discontinued its advertising, a potentially devastating move for a mail-order company, until the situation is resolved.
Upon further research, it appears the matter will only be resolved when everyone--parts companies, Web sites, even magazines--stops using the Mustang name, primarily because Ford fears the usage might be construed as an affiliation with Ford. A source at Ford, who asked to remain anonymous, explained that Ford has decided to "reclaim its legacy" by protecting its trademarks and logos. "The intent is to eliminate the use of trademark names," including Mustang and Thunderbird, among others. Apparently, Ford went after companies using Ford in their name first; now it's time to clean up Mustang.
Because so many companies use Mustang as part of their names, the enforcement is being rolled out gradually to prevent overwhelming the lawyers. According to our source, companies contacted first were either high-profile, or they were not participating in or complying with Ford licensing agreements. He went on to state that every company with Mustang in its name will eventually be contacted.
We also talked to Scott Ryther, a lawyer at Howard, Phillips, and Andersen, who confirmed that companies without a current Ford trademark licensing agreement are likely to be contacted first. He declined to comment on how the trademark enforcement will proceed, but when asked if a gas station called Mustang Mart would fall into the gunsights, he replied, "If Ford finds out about it, they'll eventually be contacted."
About 10 years ago, Ford started making noise about the use of the Mustang name. As a result, some companies modified their name to include a descriptive word, such as Classic. When asked if those companies would still be targeted, our source at Ford said, "At the time, that was deemed acceptable. Ford has changed its mind."
So now companies are faced with making a name change, and it won't be as easy as replacing Mustang with Pony or Stang. According to Ryther, Ford is protecting those trademarks too. His suggestion is for companies to change their names to something generic like "Classic Car Parts," then add a tagline about specializing in Mustangs. Sounds confusing to me.
While some companies are breathing a sigh of relief because they decided early on not to use Mustang in their name, others are staring at financial, if not total, devastation. Many of these companies have 25-30 years invested in their name, and any marketing guru will tell you that a name change can hurt company recognition for decades. Whether or not a company decides to fight Ford in the courts or simply decides to comply with the demands, it's going to be expensive, and you can bet that the expense will be passed along to you and me in the form of higher prices for parts.
I understand that Ford has every right to protect its trademarks. But it bothers me that there is no distinction between legitimate companies, many of which have doing business with Mustang in their name for decades, and companies that might be looking to deceive or defraud by using the word. In this case, Ford is going after the very people who support Ford and its products. One of the reasons the Mustang hobby remains strong is because parts are readily available for restoration, maintenance, and performance. I have to wonder how successful the '05-'06 Mustang would be without the strong Mustang hobby that feeds off the parts supplied by manufacturers and vendors.
It's a great time to be involved in Mustangs. The new Mustang is a whopping success, prices for vintage Mustangs are strong, and restomodding has strengthened the hobby with most of the companies we talked to reporting increased sales this year. But if Ford follows through on its path for Mustang trademark enforcement, many of the people who manufacture and sell parts may be forced to find another line of work. And if they go away, then our entire hobby may be headed down the tubes.
I can only hope that Ford comes to its senses and sends this whole Mustang trademark thing down the tubes first.
Rev. Matthew C. Weyuker DBC, MBA, MA, RAS, ICADC, CADC II
http://addiction-specialists.com/mcw01.
http://www.caadac.org/memberregistry.htm
http://www.breining.edu/mweyuker.htm
it's stuff like this that is going to kill the brand, not the product. when you attack the very heart and reason why a product has so much success then you are doing nothing but stabbing yourself in the back.
Ford = brainless!
they don't want to bring the mk2 focus to NA because they think it will steal sales from Volvo or Mazda? WTF? who cares? trim each car differently and it wont hurt sales at all. the RS didn't come here because the enlightend minds at Ford didn't think there was a place for a $40k cnd Focus... but there is a place in this market for a $50k cnd Subaru or Mitsu-s***ty? to say the least i am not impressed with my moms $35k Outback and the couple of WRXs i get to play with don't have me running to the dealer to pick one up...
i can think of 5 people off the top of my head who would have bought a RS Focus for $40k over a VR6 or 1.8T Golf/Jetta which sell for anywhere from $10-17k less than what the RS would. the RS would never be a high seller with a pricetag like that in the US market, that is a given. they would never be able do to the 20-50k+/year like the STI and Evo do but then again, it's not aimed at them. at the same time, the SRT-4 blows it out of the water for power-to-dollar but then again, the SRT-4 is a shopping cart with a healthy engine powering it....
just take a look at what private owners are doing with the Zetec, the SVT version can hold over 20psi when tuned right, and the Zetec can take 12-15psi again when tuned right. why is it so hard for Ford to see this and go.... "hmmm, maybe we should offer the RS engine and trans as an option!?" i dunno about you guys but wouldn't you have flocked to the dealers to get a new focus if they suddenly started selling any model with a RS engine/trans upgrade for $3-6k ontop of the sticker? what about the new 2.3L?? FS and hiboost are getting great power out of these engines with very simple turbo kits and Cosworth has shown that 150hp is a joke for the 2.3L the. ST should have come with 200hp from the factory in NA form... hell they should have made a ST-R version with 250hp and turbo.... butFord wont do that, they are too busy with the mustang and filing suits on mustang tuners to care about anything else these days!
this is exactly why i'm not and never will be a "Ford guy". why would i support a brand when that brand wont even support what they sell?
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - meford4u - 07-23-2006
Well I can see where this is going Mitch. And I have to ask. Are you upset that a company is demanding cash for a copywrited name that they own? would you be upset if another company borrowed your idea and made $$$ off you and you got squat?
Or is the real issue here that you see one side of the coin(the parts suppliers) and I see the other(Ford truly owns the name Mustang)
I may not agree with everything that is said in that statement of facts, but remember, this information is coming to you via the internet. Don't believe everything you hear and see and read on hear. It can be damaging to your health. And cause foot in mouth disease.
And to answer your question about why Ford did what they did with the SVT. Why they didn't bring over the RS engine as an option is a given. You can't get more than 5 people on this site who love the Focus and are Focus enthusiasts to give up $3500 for a SC kit. What makes that a viable market in Canada, let alone North America?
If you can't sell us parts as our sponsor, what makes Ford so different in not bringing a product to NA that would have such a limited scope for sales that it would lose money?
And most of those changes that came about were due to a change from Jacques Nassar, the salesman and spendthrift executive to the now Bill Ford. When Bill took over we went through plant closures and tough economic times. How do you tell your employees that they have no future and no job with a company but we have a Focus that can run in the 5 seconds down the quarter mile. I realize you might care, but those of us that work there, have families to feed and couldn't give a s*** where a 5 second Focus goes. Ford needed to cut and slash and they did. And you are going to see more. I heard from a top executive just yesterday that a plant in St. Thomas and Windsor is going to get the axe.
Sorry, but your story holds little weepage for me as a man who relies on this company to make sound judgements to bring the $$$ into my pocket. And stealing the name of a long known nameplate doesn't help my situation. I think you'll see that this story you brought forth is just alot of horsefeathers.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - NOS2Go4Me - 07-24-2006
For every RS they didn't bring over, there's a hot import hatch, a SRT-4 or anything else that's NOT a Focus RS being sold right now. The Saturn Ion RedLine and Cobalt SS come to mind.
Two guys I know personally own Cobalt SSes (one being one of my cousins). I showed my cousin a pic of the Focus RS and a pic of the new ST overseas. I asked him if he would have bought either car instead (and even paid a premium). The answer? Yup!
Ford could have sold untold numbers of a true "hot hatch", sedan owners be damned. The fact alone Chevy has the new small V8 in the Impala and the Monte Carlo (a car I'd never thought I'd see a V8 in ever again. EVER.) tells us that if you're going to pay to play, at least you'll come out swinging. With Ford, the best we can hope for is some sort of Focus rebirth or a sporting Fusion.
And as for the economic "hard times"... suck it up. Ford's labour costs are astronomical vs. any import manufacturer, and even ahead of DaimlerChrysler if memory serves. When you have line workers making almost 6 figures if not 6 figures for assembling vehicles (plus the benefits and extras)... what else do you expect? They can't possibly be expected to revamp entire lineups AND support an overbearing workforce.
This'll get deleted, but I've spoken my mind.
Flint: Fordââ¬â¢s Graveyard Fills Up? - ZX3TUNING - 07-24-2006
Meford,
i can see that side of it aswell, i just do not understand why for would go after the companies that help support the product in such a way.
I'm sure most Mustang companies would be happy to work with Ford if Ford came directly to them... it just seems like this is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction by Ford in the wake of continuing slump of the company... a potential cash grab if you will.
Actually you would be surprized at what people will pay for if they find that they can factor it into the original purchase price... look at the old LX Mustangs, cheap car with a nice engine upgrade direct from the factory...
people were more than happy to pay for that upgrade because they could factor it into the cost of the right off the showroom floor.
one of the reasons why a lot of people cannot or wont get into a PW or any other FI kit is because it's not easy to pick up a small loan. it's harder for people to add an additional loan for $3k+ to the monthly bills then it is to add $3k+ to something they needed to pay for anyway. granted it would end up costing about the same in the end, people just seem to think that way. I get countless inquiries about if i do Financing or payment plans, as soon as i suggest going to the bank, people just sorta vanish even though a small loan or Line-of-credit would offer a much more favorable interest rate than any Unsecured loan i could provide through an independant finance company.
why do you think that is?
imho, it's an issue with instant gratifactions, which is why i'm trying to work with some of the local dealers to offer PW kits as an upgrade direct off the showroom floor. it's harder to convince the dealership than it is the customer oddly enough.
horsefeathers or not, why is it Ford decided to do this after all these years? if they were really so concerned about copywrite on the nameplate, wouldn't you think they would have been all over those companies decades ago if it was such a big issue? it's not like these companies in the last couple of years...
either way, Ford still hasn't figured out the market and i doubt they ever will.
maybe a 5sec focus doesn't mean anything to you and the others that work for the company, but those are the sorts of things that many perspective buyers look at. maybe not the majority of Focus owners considering i seem to see more people 35+ driving focus' than the younger crowd. BUT those that do care about the 5sec focus are the ones who would buy that RS engine/trans upgrade, an RS or a factory Turbo focus...
it's a bit of a moot point really as all we are doing is speculating on both sides. i think we all know Ford isn't going to do a damn thing to make the product better, they are just going to rebadge it and try and start off with a fresh model name when it's the brand they should be working on...