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Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - NOS2Go4Me - 06-17-2006
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories
Now, I ask EVERYONE - Caucasian, Aboriginal, whatever... are we all Canadians and part of a world community, or does this divisiveness benefit anyone in the end?
They pass an injunction ordering the Aboriginals off the land and they flat-out ignore it, saying they respect no law but their own. That's great. I bet they wouldn't like it if such rules and interpretations were applied in the inverse - no sales to Aboriginals, no service to Aboriginals. Oh wait, we already had that towards expatriate Africans... it was called segregation and racism.
I, of all people, have come to realize that the political boundaries that exist around the globe by and large exist for one reason: ego. We're a world community now, we all interoperate globally on a daily basis. We do so at a personal, business and geopolitical (I hate the term, but it works) level. Countries that are free democracies by and large tend to have a majority of law-abiding citizens making up their populace. So, I have to ask: what gives?
In an angry, force-driven solution... Aboriginals could be made to "play by the rules". Treaties could be repealed and they would be forced to "share land" with the rest of Canada on a lot-by-lot basis... i.e. move into the communities that a lot have shunned. Repeal their tax-dodging capabilities. Repeal their fish and game exemptions. We all know this won't happen, but such a scenario would be decisive if not ugly and heavy-handed.
Realistically, we're facing yet more tension. More ugly words between "sides" when there ought not to be sides at all. I'm not saying dismantle entire countries... I'm merely saying that the entire populace of said country all need to play by the same rules. If you're collecting a CPP, if you're getting any type of medical care via OHIP, if you're collecting social assistance... you need to reciprocate in full.
This is Canada, be it good, bad or ugly. Everyone here who benfits from Canada should be either a Canadian or a contributing ex-patriate... it's as simple as that. If you enjoy the services, you pay the taxes... the same as everyone else. That's my opinion, you're free to agree or disagree as you see fit.
For a completely less-beaten path... look at the UK. For centuries there was a diverse culture of Woads, Celts, Scots, and British (I forget the earlier term... my bad). Over time, all of their cultures have been respected and maintained both by the government and the force of will of the people. Note that last part: force of will of the people. That means that on top of being (largely) productive citizens, they found the ability to preserve who they were without ignoring where they are now.
If an entire island nation (although technically, they're all islands) can still remain a tolerant, multi-cultural community while showing themselves to be quite progressive... I fail to see how such a stance can't work here in Canada. There are plenty of other examples, too. By and large, the North American treatment of Aboriginal people has been drastically over-accomodating. And it's starting to show to the rest of Canada; indeed, the world is taking notice.
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - Frost__2001 - 06-17-2006
I"m so not touching this one.
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - jen_deans - 06-17-2006
Frost__2001,Jun 16 2006, 02:53 PM Wrote:I"m so not touching this one.
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Good call!
I think it's just BS, just because your great, great, great, great grandfather was native doesn't mean you should be treated any differently.. sorry! :blink:
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - ZTWsquared - 06-17-2006
NOS2Go4Me,Jun 16 2006, 01:29 PM Wrote:http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStoriesAlthough you used some examples that I personally wouldn't have chosen ... the essential question you're asking is valid and very timely - and I've been asking the same question myself.
Now, I ask EVERYONE - Caucasian, Aboriginal, whatever... are we all Canadians ... ?[right][snapback]193483[/snapback][/right]
The sad fact is ... we are not all equal Canadians and that inequality, in favour of aboriginal people, is baked right into our beloved Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Right there in section 25 ...
Charter, Sec.25 Wrote:25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including
(a ) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and
(b ) any rights or freedoms that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.
And if that isn't enough ... when describing rights that "now exist" you have to also consider Section 35 of the Constitution Act
Section Thirty-five of the Constitution Act, Wrote:Section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 "recognizes and affirms" the "existing" aboriginal and treaty rights in Canada. These aboriginal rights protect the activities, practice, or traditions that are integral to the distinctive culture of the aboriginal peoples. The treaty rights protect and enforce agreements in between the crown and the aboriginal peoples. Section 35 also provides protection of aboriginal title which protects the use of land for traditional practices. These rights extend to people who make up the Indian, Inuit, and Métis peoples.And there's more ... but you get the idea.
So the answer to your question, sadly, is that no - all Canadians are not equal and it would appear that the aboriginal people of this country have the upper hand - constitutionally anyway.
What's more ... because the Charter actually protects these rights from being changed - there's SFA any of us can do about it.
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - Frost__2001 - 06-17-2006
I'm choosing to stay out of this one mainly because I am 1/2 Native and well my family line on my mothers side is rather stong in the Native community, and what not, not to mention I'm part of a large family that is in itself is it's own well known identidy in the who's who of the Saugeen tribe with links to most if not all reservations in North, South and Western Ontario, and Eastern Manatobia. I can say I will never meet all my relitives but I can go on any rez here in Ontario and be reffered to as cousin....
On the poilitical part of this I can agree with the Six Nations people and how this would outrage them to have their land taken away from them, Do I think they did the right thing ? No I don't, But I do agree how they took over the land again, if they didn't there would be a completed subdividion there where the land once was with now occupied homes there then a vacant space as it currently is. I don't agree with the blockades or violance that happened there, but if they didn't do anything there would be nothing left, and an even bigger problem to deal with then it currently is.
I will agree and say Canada is not a fair and equal country, but reality is when it really comes down to the basic rights of natives, they tend to be brushed aside and all the problems left in the dark untill they boil over and things happen. There are more documented abuses I can refference too, and most were towards the Natives then anyone else, and I could mention more with the mention of the head tax for the Chinese, Canada is not as equal as we'd like to think it is, but it as a country is trying to push that aside with it's conservitive views in my opinion like what the states did.
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - NOS2Go4Me - 06-18-2006
Ken - thanks for the pieces of the Constitution. I really appreciate the chance to actually read that we're nerfed in this one.
Frost - every culture is worth respecting, but not every culture needs to be treated with kids gloves 24/7. The point is that Aboriginals work in the same places any other Canadian does, the enjoy the same health benefits any other Canadian does... but when it's politically convenient or advantageous, they flout the laws of a country that the rest of us (by and large) work every day at sustaining. That's not right, no matter who the group is.
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - ZTWsquared - 06-18-2006
Frost__2001,Jun 16 2006, 10:19 PM Wrote:I will agree and say Canada is not a fair and equal country, but reality is when it really comes down to the basic rights of natives, they tend to be brushed aside and all the problems left in the dark untill they boil over and things happen. There are more documented abuses I can refference too, and most were towards the Natives then anyone else, and I could mention more with the mention of the head tax for the Chinese, Canada is not as equal as we'd like to think it is, but it as a country is trying to push that aside with it's conservitive views in my opinion like what the states did.Frost - in terms of recent history (since WWII) I don't think I totally agree with your analysis. But even if you're right and there are documented abuses, our political and judicial systems are there to protect everyone - aboriginals included.
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Considering their relatively small numbers (some 50,000 status and 200,00 non-status IIRC) aboriginal peoples have access to government funds and programs and special considerations unlike any other minority of any size. I'm not saying it isn't right that they do ... but I am saying this is not indicative at all of institutional prejudice.
The real prejudice, and yes it exists, lies within the rest of the Canadian population as individuals. But just as you say there are reasons for aboriginals feeling the way they do, there are reasons why many non-natives do not feel sympathetic to their cause. For example, the statements and actions of natives at Caledonia only reinforce the notion that natives don't believe they are Canadians and they don't feel compelled to obey Canadian law. Most Canadians really feel very uncomfortable about that ... and many think of these aboriginals as a group of law-breakers who should be charged, and question why they haven't been.
I believe aboriginals have to make a decision one way or the other and then let the rest of us decide how we feel about what they've chosen.
And if aboriginals are truly thinking about their future, their decision will be made based on the realities of the 21st century; to whit: the Europeans and other "more recent immigrants" aren't going back to where they came from.
And if the aboriginals want fairness from the 30 million + non-aboriginals who reside in Canada, they will affirm that the non-aboriginal population has a right to expect them to behave as law-abiding citizens of this country.
And to your points specifically about Caledonia -- the issue here isn't the land claim - there are plenty of processes in place to deal with them and special arms of the government tasked to do so.
The issue is that the aboriginals are not happy with the process and its outcome; and they are unwilling to let the rulings of the court apply. It is unacceptable in any other aspect of our society to ignore the ruling of a court. There is always a legal recourse. It's about time that aboriginals decide whether they want the protection of the Canadian government and/or the courts, or not. If not, I can make some suggestions for a new deal, but I guarantee the aboriginal people won't like them.
It may not be fair for all (both sides win/lose) but we're all stuck with what we have, and we can decide to work within the system we have (and accept the outcomes) or we can throw it all out.
I'd say that the aboriginals in Caledonia have decided to throw it out, and right now, given how I feel about things, I'd say go ahead and throw it out. Do that, and I know what kind of feedback I'll be giving to my MP and MPP concerning aboriginal "rights."
Ontario Buys Disputed Caledonia Land - Oscar The Grouch - 06-18-2006
What irks me the most about Caledonia is that the Barricades came up when the houses were nearly finished. Therefore, if the indians now claim ownership of the lands, they basically have received free developed houses and land.
If they were so concerned about the land and keeping the natural aspect, wouldn't they have got more involved before construction begun???
Sounds like a lot of BS if you ask me.