[naz]

i've been shopping around for brake pads for my sube, so i thought i would i would share some of the tech i've gleaned from nasioc and corner-carvers.com, as well as my own experiences

spreadsheet that calculates brake torque changes from modifications

thread that talks about how brake mods affect stopping distance

if you read through all of that stuff you would find the following key takeaways

the number 1 best mod for decreasing your stopping distance is sticker tires

this is so important, let's read it again to make sure we all understand

the number 1 best mod for decreasing your stopping distance is sticker tires

basically, the stock brakes can lockup the tires in the dry, so no matter what else you do to the brakes, you aren't stopping shorter, because ultimately, brake performance is limited by tire traction

so if i were to stick on a stoptech big brake kit or sti brakes onto my wrx and i used the same tires, i would not be stopping any shorter.. i would have for sure stopped shorter if i just threw r comps on the car

for a first time track user, i highly recommend keeping the brakes stock the first time out. flush the brake system with some new OE brake fluid (ford HD brake fluid is great stuff) and you are good to go.

hope this helps! more to come if there's interest

EDIT: the key thing you are buying with bigger rotors is increased heat capacity, and that's why you should go to the track stock first.. to find out if you in fact NEED the increased heat capacity

[Mike]

all very true , the stock brakes and pad just go away too fast though , a few stops and i was in the mush, and boiling the brakes would happen fairly quickly with some spirited driving and slightly grippier than stock tires ..... The car NEEDS bake cooling , ducts , but i never figured out a good way to get it around the transmission......

Higher performance pads, rotors, ss brake lines, and castrol SRF and of course good tires are a must for track day usage on this car .... stock brakes do not cut it on the track or even for spirited driving ....and brake cooling is also a must ....

[darkpuppet]

haven't followed the links yet, but I recall SCC publishing an article to this effect as well. They demonstrated that a big brake kit on project RSX actually encreased (more is bad) stopping distances.

A lot of thought goes into most stock braking designs -- stability under braking is one of them, and upgrading to a poorly engineered system can harm your car's handling.

[naz]

Mike,Mar 31 2008, 06:29 AM Wrote:all very true , the stock brakes and pad just go away too fast though , a few stops and i was in the mush, and boiling the brakes would happen fairly quickly with some spirited driving and slightly grippier than stock tires .
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how often do you bleed/replace the brake fluid? if you've left it in too long that could very well explain what you experienced

i wish P51 would chime in on this thread.. i recall he once posted that the stock brakes on his turbo zx3 were sufficient for track use, but i don't recall if it was 100% stock down to the pad material or if he just meant that he kept the stock rotors and calipers


about pad material.. the stoptech website has a lot of interesting white papers on the subject

here is a link about pad bed-in that is very informative. at the very bottom of the page is has a chart that buckets pads into street, 'club race' and 'full race' categories. it looks like the 'street' pads have a MOT of 750F, 'club race' are 1000F and full race are '1300ish F)

the ferodo ds2500 pad is very interesting because its operating range is ambient to 1000F, which suggests it is a decent choice for a 'crossover' street/track pad

another pad that isn't listed that i think is worth looking at is carbotech panther plus. its operating range is 150F to 1300F, but it supposedly is very rotor friendly even when cold, so it is streetable if you don't mind the dusting and noise.

i'm shopping for a set of panther plus at the moment, and i'll post a review as soon as i get them on the car

[naz]

so why would you want to change brake components anyway

1) increased heat capacity (larger rotors, higher temp pads, higher temp brake fluid)
2) better feel / modulation (different caliper, SS lines, different pads)
3) show points (its RED... MaddD poiNtz y0)
4) increase rearward brake bias (larger rear rotors, multiple piston front calipers with smaller overall piston area)

i really wanna drop $$$.. what's a good mod path for brakes?

0) regularly flush (once a year minimum) the brake fluid. you don't need to spend a ton of $$ here..ford heavy duty DOT 3 is awesome stuff (dry boiling point of 550F) and is stupid cheap. personally, i think ATE super blue is a good compromise because it absorbs water more slowly, and also has a high dry boiling point... don't bother with stupid expensive stuff like castrol SRF

1) r compound tires (best) or (more realistic) aggressive street tire like bridgestone RE-01R

2) brake pads with higher friction coefficient and higher MOT (example: ferodo DS2500, carbotech panther plus) (note: the more aggressive you go, the more dust/noise you should expect) also, be VERY CAREFUL when choosing an aggressive brake pad. hawk blue 9012 for example, will eat rotors like a portable brake lathe when cold. read lots to make sure others have used the pad on the street for many thousands of miles if you are planning to use them on the street too

3) OE blank rotors... some ppl who keep the stock caliper typically end up going back to the OE rotors

[ZED_not_zee]

did we forget brake fade..? sure go to the track with oe brakes first to experience this phenomena known as "way to hot into turn one off the straight and now my car needs to cool for a good hour"...

bigger brakes=beter cooling = consistent performance


I'm no racing instructor nor pro car builder so I'll stop there.

[darkpuppet]

ZED_not_zee,Mar 31 2008, 06:08 PM Wrote:did we forget brake fade..?  sure go to the track with oe brakes first to experience this phenomena known as "way to hot into turn one off the straight and now my car needs to cool for a good hour"...

bigger brakes=beter cooling = consistent performance


I'm no racing instructor nor pro car builder so I'll stop there.
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I think he addressed that with point #1.

and I'd rather have brake fade at the track than having cold/useless brakes on the 400 when the traffic comes to a sudden standstill.

[naz]

ZED_not_zee,Mar 31 2008, 10:08 PM Wrote:did we forget brake fade..?  sure go to the track with oe brakes first to experience this phenomena known as "way to hot into turn one off the straight and now my car needs to cool for a good hour"...
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yup.. i still think a stock zx3 would be able to do a HPDE event bone stock. if i still had a focus i'd try to prove it :)

but yea.. i think my mod path of fluid flush, tires, ferodo DS2500 / carbotech panther plus front pads and OE rotors would be great for a first time user who wanted to drop some $$ before an event

[naz]

interesting article from June '08 Grassroots motorsports magazine