[nass]

I just noticed an interesting article on the MSN Today page... worth a read if you haven't already.

Clicky

Quote:One of the amazing things about this whole principle is how personal it really is. Car makers have tried over the years to tap into this culture, offering factory-built hotrods like the Ford Focus SVT and Honda Civic SiR.

They've died on the vine.

:)

[euro_zx5]

Yeah, I read this earlier... interesting read indeed. Although, I do sort of disagree with some of his points... factory built 'tuner' type cars are hot, they always will be imo. Take the GTI and SVT models for example, and sadly enough, even the ss line GM is trying to keep alive by slapping on various cars of importance or not (SS Cobalt for example, being a naturally aspirated 2.4 or a supercharged 2.4) Nice read non the less.

[SVT ZX3]

As soon as I seen it was by Jim Kenzie I knew what to expect....factory hot rods have died on the vine eh? Better tell VW that the GTI that has been selling here for 25 years isn't popular, or what about that STI Impreza? I hear they have a hard time selling those too. :rolleyes: Guess those SRT-4's and RSX-S' didn't do very well either....what a tool. The SiR just missed the mark with performance enthusiasts and a variety of reasons conspired to kill the SVTF. Two poor examples of the success of factory hot rods IMHO.

[mo_focus]

Well with all these new rules and regulations about modifying your car these days, they best would be a Factory hot rod. This way if you ever get a ticket for your car not being legal/loud/ or whatever you can just take it to court and tell them its just stock. If they have any problems with it just take it to the manufacturers.

I think personally new hotrods are the next best thing and it will get more popular over time. As for the SVT and SiR, they weren’t really a pocket rocket. Bring the euro WRC focus and see the line up at the dealerships.

[NOS2Go4Me]

The thing about factory hot rods is they (the manufacturers) have a chance with each new offering to sell as many as they could ever make, simply by pricing them effectively and affordably. Instead, they do their best to create niche markets by pricing the "top" or elite models well above what they should be. I'll never knock the SVT Focus, but the pricing scheme alone for the SVT allowed them to price the 05-07 ST way above what was reasonable, just because it was the "sport" model with a few more horses. In the SVT's defence, there's a 40BHP gap between it and the "normal" ZETEC motor. There's not even 20BHP between Ford's tuning of the 2L and 2.3L Duratecs.

Back in "tha day", when you shelled out big bucks for the performance variants of a car, you got performance. Now, you get stickers, maybe a new exhaust and a higher tune of an existing motor that was really never meant as a performance offering to begin with.

As we all can't afford the lastest Porsche, Corvette and other hotrods... we're forced to take other avenues. If you have the knowledge and skills to make your own (or pay someone to do the labour), what's wrong with that?

Personally, I think Jim Kenzie's preaching to the wrong choir. We can't hear him over our rap.

[02_svt_guy]

good read...

expecially the part with jrp which basically defines the difference between a tuner and a ricer

[Flofocus]

NOS2Go4Me,Aug 11 2006, 09:25 AM Wrote:Back in "tha day", when you shelled out big bucks for the performance variants of a car, you got performance. Now, you get stickers, maybe a new exhaust and a higher tune of an existing motor that was really never meant as a performance offering to begin with.
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Theres plenty of 190+ HP spcom's out here, but that goes back to your other point.....

Civic SI...all said and done....30K <_<

[darkpuppet]

"You don't need more car – you need more driver. Take your next thousand bucks and spend it on a good racing school."

great quote!

I agree with the article. As for SVT and SiR dying on the vine... well, I don't recall either selling enough to make a positive impact on their respective manufacturers.

However, there are companies that have done it better more recently... doesn't make that statement untrue.

[NefCanuck]

darkpuppet,Aug 11 2006, 09:27 AM Wrote:"You don't need more car – you need more driver. Take your next thousand bucks and spend it on a good racing school."

great quote!

I agree with the article.  As for SVT and SiR dying on the vine... well, I don't recall either selling enough to make a positive impact on their respective manufacturers.

However, there are companies that have done it better more recently... doesn't make that statement untrue.
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The problem when it comes to "factory" sport compacts is one of volume. The manufacturers have to make enough coin producing these speciality cars that they don't actually lose $ on the sale of them.

While many say that Ford overpriced the Focus SVT for example, are people saying that Ford has to produce the things at a loss to a smaller market just because people want them? If I'm the car makerI either try to skimp on the car, or not bother. Hence the result was the "under powered" Focus SVT that was killed when it didn't sell enough to justify the extra expense.

I doubt DC produced the Neon SRT's at a loss and the same with the Cobalt SS now. If manufacturers lose money playing the game, they get out of the game, no shame in that.

NefCanuck

[SVT ZX3]

darkpuppet,Aug 11 2006, 08:27 AM Wrote:As for SVT and SiR dying on the vine... well, I don't recall either selling enough to make a positive impact on their respective manufacturers.

However, there are companies that have done it better more recently... doesn't make that statement untrue.
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The statement he made about those 2 particular cars was true yes, but using those 2 cars to illustrate how the entire industry has failed at making factory hot rods appealing to the sport compact crowd just seems way off to me.

[darkpuppet]

SVT ZX3,Aug 11 2006, 11:30 AM Wrote:The statement he made about those 2 particular cars was true yes, but using those 2 cars to illustrate how the entire industry has failed at making factory hot rods appealing to the sport compact crowd just seems way off to me.
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but is that what he's saying? that the entire industry has failed at making factory hot rods? not really in my opinion. He is providing an explanation for the existence of the majority of the current modding community, since the article is about responsible modding, not the failure of the auto industry to appeal to the modding crowd.

[SVT ZX3]

darkpuppet,Aug 11 2006, 11:09 AM Wrote:

SVT ZX3,Aug 11 2006, 11:30 AM Wrote:The statement he made about those 2 particular cars was true yes, but using those 2 cars to illustrate how the entire industry has failed at making factory hot rods appealing to the sport compact crowd just seems way off to me.
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but is that what he's saying? that the entire industry has failed at making factory hot rods? not really in my opinion. He is providing an explanation for the existence of the majority of the current modding community, since the article is about responsible modding, not the failure of the auto industry to appeal to the modding crowd.
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Quote JK
"One of the amazing things about this whole principle is how personal it really is. Car makers have tried over the years to tap into this culture, offering factory-built hotrods like, the Ford Focus SVT and Honda Civic SiR.

They've died on the vine."

To me, although he uses these 2 cars as particular examples, he is not just referring to Ford and Honda but to Car makers as a whole and saying that they have failed to make factory hot rods appealing to the modding community (not failing at making them all together) and thats why there are so many "tuners" out there now. I just plain disagree with this, but maybe I am just interpreting the words differently?

[darkpuppet]

thing is, even if you consider the current 'factory hotrods'.. it's still a highly personalize thing as even owners of those factory hotrods go about modifying them.

So yeah, car companies keep trying to appeal to the demographic, and some have died on the vine, some haven't really died, but they don't stop the modding community either.

[SVT ZX3]

True.

[Drivesthebeast]

Companies like Ford are always going to be concered with the bottom line at the moment, not longterm. They don't seem to take risks.

Companies like Honda and Toyota build "Niche" vehicles that perhaps don't sell so well, but they DO get the longterm enthusiast or fanbase, and build a reputation for those Niche Vehicles. The vehicles gain popularity by word of mouth advertising, etc. Take for example the Civic in the 1980's...the normal civics were deemed peices of junk, but the CRX and Si versions kept people interested. They had a huge following, and because Honda gave the customers what they wanted then, they have infused similar build and design features/characteristics of the original CRX and Si's into ALL of the Civic models. By building small numbers of what people wanted first, and get a good rep for them, they were able to sell a lot more of them LATER on.

So what I mean is, Ford and GM needs to sell the hi-po cars again, and more often, but they also need to sell them for less profit NOW, so that they can regain it or improve on it over the LONGTERM.

I apologize for saying this (FOMOCO employees on here...), but the "Beancounting" has to stop.

Refference the automakers failing at participating in the Sport compact revolution? I don't think so. They did the SAME thing with muscle cars in the 60's and 70's....some were hits, lots were misses. The SRT's, Cobalt SS, etc...are all great attempts at building the public what THEY want, not what the company wants.

Does any of this make sense to anyone? Looking at the big picture...

[naz]

factory sport compacts only fail if they suck. integra R was most def a success, so are the EVO and STi, and i still see people paying top dollar for old VW Rabbit GTi