[NOS2Go4Me]

tdot-zx3,Mar 25 2004, 08:35 PM Wrote:

naz,Mar 23 2004, 02:52 AM Wrote:my only concern is that if it give you 150whp just from bolting it on to the stock motor... that's kinda close to running out of injector

Nah.. you wont....

You could beat on a JR car all day long, there systems are known to be the most bolt on streetable stable out there.

Stock though.

If i added a few mods and a pulley... THEN i would definetly look into injectors and a new cutom burnt chip.

What about the SPI? WIll it handle it? Man... I'm evil.

Actually, will the tranny handle it? And can I beef up the tranny if it won't?

I wanna be the first psycho with a S/C SPI and an auto. :ph34r:

[atomic]

none of u have any idea what you are talking about .

the quality? it consists of 2 parts . the super charger (which is made by eaton and if you're questioning their quality go back to school). the intake manifold (Which replaces your intake manifold so the s/c can mount to it and support the weight).

that's it .

so if u think that is complicated u shouldn't bother tuning.

also, the jrsc as u can tell by reading threads regarding it's "tune" is horrible. the "black box" as people refer to it... is bad . it's a pic microcontroller with a simple program that watches for boost and opens injectors . it doesn't monitor rpm, intake temp or tps. BUT for daily driver who doesn't care about power, it will keep your engine rich enough to last .

so if you are looking for a cheap solution for boost in a ZX3, i would suggest turbo because there are plenty of cheap turbo headers or kits for u to chose from. AND because the zx3 has a PCM that is flashable/chip (sct, diablo, etc) then u can modify a/f AND ignition timing . bonus!

if you have a SVT, i'd suggest either the vortech or jrsc WITH a aftermarket FMU. the Greddy EManage is one of the best (if not the best) FMU u'll find .

just remember: BOOST = BOOST no matter HOW you make it . tuning is the key!

for more information contact Cam Koole @ diablo performance. here is my car on their website: atomic's car

[Flofocus]

atomic,Mar 28 2004, 04:12 PM Wrote:none of u have any idea what you are talking about .

mmmm kay buddy!

What you put in bold was what I said in the 3rd post. :rolleyes:

Yours is an SVT and this is for the ZX3, different engine.

[atomic]

Flofocus,Mar 28 2004, 08:23 PM Wrote:

atomic,Mar 28 2004, 04:12 PM Wrote:none of u have any idea what you are talking about .

mmmm kay buddy!

What you put in bold was what I said in the 3rd post. :rolleyes:

Yours is an SVT and this is for the ZX3, different engine.

it doesn't matter zx3 or svt . what i typed still stands .

the only thing that matters is the tuning method .. on a zx3 u can tune in the ecu like stated.

zx3's are lucky.

[D-Dub]

To Atomic
Thanks for telling us stuff that we already knew :)

[atomic]

D-Dub,Mar 29 2004, 05:13 PM Wrote:To Atomic
Thanks for telling us stuff that we already knew :)

sorry to step on yoru big toes .however, what i've read from posts in the forum showed differently . i was only trying to help and save u some money . u know, instead of buying msd ignitions to replace stock ones that are capable to 300 hp *shrug* but then that's just me . i do it right the first time.

[D-Dub]

I think you should read a little more on what people have said in the past to see what goin on on this board you only have like 10 posts and most of the people are in the hundreads. The board has alot of information that has been said in the past, in this case the guy wanted some info on the SC but if you read his new posts then you would see that he is swaying towards something else.

[dad]

Quote: u know, instead of buying msd ignitions to replace stock ones that are capable to 300 hp *shrug* but then that's just me . i do it right the first time.

dude....I have one of these.....and if you think it is a waste of money...well,frankly your right and wrong.....I have posted about this more times than I can count...do a search....

your right if the perception is hp increase...absolutely wrong if you understand what it is your trying to do with it...wich is create a more linear power delivery,improved throttle response,better milage....and if your a heavily modified n/a motor it offers some spark advance / retard options, launch control for you drag guys and a hole host of other things like ignition lockout, protection from voltage swings ( will operate your ignition down to 9 volts and stay dead stable) easy hook up of aftermarket tach,rev limiter (if need be)...etc. etc.

probably one of the best mods I have done.....just not for everyone....but diffinetly not a waste of money

oh....did I mention that I DO things right

[naz]

dad,Mar 24 2004, 01:31 AM Wrote:

Quote:my only concern is that if it give you 150whp just from bolting it on to the stock motor... that's kinda close to running out of injector

thats something I have not got a straight answer from anyone...seems to be alot of stronge opinions either way on this....

chipguy told me a while back that the MAF outputs 5V very very close to when the injectors run out of duty cycle. if i'm not mistaken the blackbox intercepts the MAF signal to keep the PCM from seeing 5V

a lot of the dynos i see of people making more than 150whp with the stock injectors the AF starts to get really lean at high rpm

not sure i'd be comfortable with that

[euro]

You got to klick on the SC to get to the info and price :lol: It's there!

[atomic]

D-Dub,Mar 29 2004, 08:38 PM Wrote:I think you should read a little more on what people have said in the past to see what goin on on this board you only have like 10 posts and most of the people are in the hundreads. The board has alot of information that has been said in the past, in this case the guy wanted some info on the SC but if you read his new posts then you would see that he is swaying towards something else.

oh. hundreds of posts? well i didn't realize that meant knowledge. here, shall i write a script to post 1,000000 kabillion times and be the smartest one on here?

i guess no one on here is willing to learn .

don't bother replying, i'm insulted by your attitudes and never returning. good luck with everything.

[Flofocus]

atomic,Mar 30 2004, 04:12 PM Wrote:

D-Dub,Mar 29 2004, 08: Wrote:I think you should read a little more on what people have said in the past to see what goin on on this board you only have like 10 posts and most of the people are in the hundreads. The board has alot of information that has been said in the past, in this case the guy wanted some info on the SC but if you read his new posts then you would see that he is swaying towards something else.

oh. hundreds of posts? well i didn't realize that meant knowledge. here, shall i write a script to post 1,000000 kabillion times and be the smartest one on here?

i guess no one on here is willing to learn .

don't bother replying, i'm insulted by your attitudes and never returning. good luck with everything.

See ya!

I was insulted with "none of you know what your talking about" anyways. :angry:

we do want to learn, but with an attitude like yours...pfft ...nevermind

Later
B)

[darkpuppet]

ah guys... c'mon.. that's #2.. not good to keep scaring these guys away you know..

Atomic, seriously too bad to see you go. You have a unique point of view, that's for sure, but in the future, the following tips might help you become accepted easier in your future endeavours.

1) don't put down people's opinions on the 1st post into a thread...especially as a new member. It raises skepticism immediately
2) your opinion is not tuning law, state your reasonings behind the solutions, and be open to other things out there.
3) Don't run away the moment someone disagrees with you. A thicker skin will protect you from the sun's harmful rays.

[naz]

steve

are you running bigger injectors with your setup ?

what was the reasoning for why or why not

probably a good idea for someone who actually HAS a SC setup to weigh in either way..

i understand atomic has a SC but he isn't really explaining himself well...

[darkpuppet]

My setup is running the 42lbers that came stock with the vortech unit. Computer duties are picked up by an autologic chip, and it utilizes the stock MAF with stock IAT location (ugh)...

Now I'm just running the stock setup, and I'm going to give EFF total credit for what I'm about to say (but I agree with him)...

These companies spend a lot of money making a stock kit that works. So long as you don't push it out of it's limits (reading the instructions will help), you should be perfectly fine and safe. People have been running JSRCs and Vortechs now for quite some miles on the included kit without any problems.

So if you buy a proven kit like JRSC and vortech, you slap it on, and you're good to go. You pay upfront for the kit, spend a bit of time installing, and save tonnes trying to make it work (like you'd be doing with a custom turbo).

One thing that is universally recommended is to get the car to a dyno after doing your FI install. $90-$100 will give you piece of mind that things are working properly, or provide hard data to return to the manufacturer to troubleshoot.

my own personal thoughts:

We all know that the JRSC makes a reliable 150 or so HP on a zetec, and close to 200 on an SVT. If you're not going to force it beyond those duties by installing smaller SC pulleys you're going to be just fine, and very happy at the end of the day. But do realize that the JRSC puts a ceiling on your FI mods. You can still gain with simple bolt ons to help the car breath/exhale better, which will lower boost, but so what, they'll respond very well to the mods.

and not confirmed with any empirical evidence yet...

Another reason I think the JRSC is a safe solution is that it pushes a fixed amount of airflow. Adding other mods should only increase the efficiency of the engine, and not force it beyond what the supplied kit can handle in the way of fuel..because only so much air is going to go through a JRSC.

Unlike the Vortech, which builds boost to about 3-4k RPM, and then bleeds off excess... a better breathing engine, is going to allow a lot more air through beyond where the boost was originally capped off, and that could put strain on injector sizings because you would flow more air at higher RPMs... so vortech users may want to be careful of the mods they put on...


I'm not sure how much of that makes sense, but that's me weighing in on the JRSC and the injector question....

[dad]

Quote:1) don't put down people's opinions on the 1st post into a thread...especially as a new member. It raises skepticism immediately

Quote:2) your opinion is not tuning law, state your reasonings behind the solutions, and be open to other things out there

Quote:3) Don't run away the moment someone disagrees with you. A thicker skin will protect you from the sun's harmful rays

well said....we all do have our opinions it is how you express them that makes them woth the read or not

[naz]

darkpuppet,Mar 30 2004, 09:46 PM Wrote:My setup is running the 42lbers that came stock with the vortech unit. Computer duties are picked up by an autologic chip, and it utilizes the stock MAF with stock IAT location (ugh)...

if you are using the stock MAF, has it been recalibrated? or does that autologic chip have different tables than the stock PCM that are populated for MAF signal values greater than 5V

[darkpuppet]

naz,Mar 30 2004, 10:59 PM Wrote:if you are using the stock MAF, has it been recalibrated? or does that autologic chip have different tables than the stock PCM that are populated for MAF signal values greater than 5V

The MAF is not re-calibrated...it's pure stock MAF.

but that's a very good question... as far as i know, since the autologic chip is a piggy back, it probably sees the 5 volt cutoff, and then switches to pre-determined RPM/Fuel tables... or that's what I would lead myself to believe.

Are MAFs capable of sending a higher voltage than 5V? I haven't read how the actual sensor works, but I got the impression that it works like O2 sensors... which are limited to the signal they send because the way the sensor works.

If the stock MAF can send over 5V, could a computer (be it autologic or SCT) transform the values over 5V with tuning? in which case me buying an SCT chip doesn't require a new MAF?

I get the feeling that 0-5V is the optimum operating range of a MAF regardless, and the SCT's ability to work with a non-calibrated MAF was due to the fact that you could transform those values below 5V properly, but still work under the 5V cap.

This bears some researching...

[naz]

steve.. i obviously don't know the answer for sure...

but i believe our cars use a hot wire type MAF.. and yes i believe you are right that they do have an range of output voltage that is limited by the MAF's design

another thing though that chipguy showed me is that the tables in the PCM that only go up to 5V MAF signal.. and as far as i know chips can only repopulate the tables with new values, they can't extend the tables... that is the reason for using a recalibrated MAF in the first place.. to get the signal in a range that is allowable in the PCM tables... its possible to recalibrate a stock focus MAF.. but the cost is almost the same as using a recalibrated cobra MAF, so it makes sense to use the bigger unit

what else did your vortech kit come with? i'm thinking there is something in there that is intercepting and transforming the MAF output before it gets to the PCM, and the autologic chip is handling the timing, load stuff and the fuel trim

i'm not sure how exactly the SCT chips work.. but i'm pretty sure the autologic chips just let you get at the EEC-V system and fiddle with everything that the ford engineers can and store different values for the existing tables.. and the EEC-V doesn't have the ability to transform MAF signals....

let us know how your research goes... this is interesting stuff

[darkpuppet]

There doesn't appear to be anything else in the mix, other than the autologic unit.. you can check out the full parts list in the vortech install manual.

I bet dollars to doughnuts (hmmmm... doughnuts....), it's acting very similarily to the JRSC black box, but with larger injectors, it has a slightly bigger margin for mapping... but beyond a certain point, I doubt it's relying on the MAF.

I really want to know how the stock MAF works now. If the 5V limitation is a limitation of the computer, and the MAF does read higher, a simple inline resistor can be used to calibrate it (imagine a $0.75 part instead of $200+)... However, if the inbound voltage to the MAF is also capped, that could be a source of it's limitation as well.... which would require more modification to 'calibrate' it...and do it without burning it out.

I'll let you know what I find.