[NOS2Go4Me]

We were out for a run today after breakfast and ended up going right past the Ford dealer. This was great, as I had just had the thought this morning - "What about a new Focus?"

Sara thought it would be a great idea (read: she likes the Focus still, even after 3 years), so we stopped in at Stockfish and took an 07 ZX5 SES out for a boot.

After driving the Focus and seeing that the great incentives on the Fusion actually made for the same monthly lease/buy payments as the Focus... I have the following conundrum: WHICH CAR???

Here are my summary impressions and observations on each car:

2007 ZX5 SES - It has the Canadian Winter Package Plus (heated seats, heated mirrors, ABS, traction control). It has a great suspension (not too far off of the S2 suspension, has front/rear anti-sways), makes decent noise and output from the 2.0L Duratec, enjoys the "pick a gear" capabilities of the shift gate and O/D select button. I find the new foglights are growing on me.

Downsides - the audio setup is pathetisad (has the duplicate controls on a stalk on the left of the column, but where has all the bass gone?), the classic 4-speed and 4-banger lack of pull (although it's admittedly snappier than the SPI, especially up top) and the fact that there still aren't rear disc brakes! The heated seats work really well, and after having tried them in the Rabbit and the Fusion, they're really growing on me. The cruise control is a welcome addition as well. Plus, 6-speed intermittent wipers (again) with pull-to-mist. The Fusion lacks those extra levels of choice.

2006 Fusion SE (2.3L, auto, alloys) - black, camel interior (perhaps it'll grow on me, it seems really, really sandy). I love the brakes (4 wheel discs with ABS) and I love the extra pull of the 2.3L Duratec with the 5-speed auto - the first two gears are nice and short and that goes a long way towards shoring up my confidence in the car's performance. The suspension (for obvious reasons) is quite a bit softer than the Focus, but the body roll is well tamed. The brake dive does seem a tad excessive, though. The stereo is good for "just" a single CD with 6 speakers. The power seat is a nice touch, and I'm actually glad the recliner is manual - that seems to break most often with power seats. The trunk is a good size and the seats still fold down.

What annoys me is the almost-unbearable growl of the 2.3L Duratec. This was my first experience with this engine and I actually find the intake/exhaust note of the 2.0L to be superior. Also, there seems to be way more "harsh" noise coming from the engine bay of the Fusion vs. what I had expected, especially after having driven the 2007 SEL V6 AWD in the same night.

So, in my mind, do I want a better-equipped Focus or a snappier-performing Fusion? They both have cruise, air, tilt/tele steering, power doors/windows/mirrors/entry/trunk, 16" wheels, front/rear anti-sways, CD/MP3 stereo, good headlights and excellent fit/finish. The ZX5 performs better overall than the SPI (but I had fun modding it!), but then again the Fusion outruns the Focus.

I'm also waiting for the catcalls about possibly abandoning the Sedan Faction. :D

Seriously, please post your good and bad experiences - let's keep the really OT stuff to a minimum, thanks.

[ZTWsquared]

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 25 2006, 01:33 PM Wrote:After driving the Focus and seeing that the great incentives on the Fusion actually made for the same monthly lease/buy payments as the Focus... I have the following conundrum: WHICH CAR???

Hey Adam ... good luck with the decision – not sure what your primary selection criteria is with the new car, but I thought I’d pipe in with some observations.

The 2006 Fusion does not have the side airbags or foglights standard as they do for ’07 – and frankly I would not buy that car without the side air bags based on what I’ve read. On the other hand I won’t buy a Focus without side air bags either.

Comparing 2007 models, there is indeed an additional $1500 delivery credit on the Fusion vs. none on Focus, which does narrow the MSRP gap to $3050 assuming you can get the whole 1500 from the dealer. They are not obligated BTW to disclose this incentive to you or give you any portion of it as it is a “dealer” incentive normally hidden from the consumer.

Accordingly, with the same 0% financing on both, the monthly payments on Fusion would have to be higher given the price disadvantage.

For a 36-month lease the Fusion does have 4 ppts residual advantage, but a lease rate disadvange (4.5% vs. 2.9% for Focus) … so again, not having done the math, my educated guess is the Fusion payment would be higher.

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 25 2006, 01:33 PM Wrote:… but then again the Fusion outruns the Focus.

I’m kind of surprised to read this … I know it’s got an extra cog in the slushbox but the Fusion weighs 30% more than the Focus (800 lbs!) but comes with only 18% additional hp and torque. Having said that I couldn’t find any 0-60 or ¼ mile info to compare so I stand to be corrected.

I have all the Ford spreadsheets for comparing monthly payments; feel free to send me the info if you'd like a financial comparison.

Cheers

[NOS2Go4Me]

Hey Ken, thanks for weighing in!

I can certainly vouch for the fact that the needle does indeed make it to 100 KM/H faster in the Fusion. I didn't stopwatch it but I made some pretty similar runs (same location, same conditions) and the Fusion definitely seemed to sweep to 100 faster.

Now, with that said... I honestly don't know if it has the side airbags or not. I believe so, but I'll need to wait till Monday to find out (unless I swing by after hockey practice).

I'm not sure if I'm being duped on the payments, but they're buying out my current car (lien) and according to them they're applying those incentives to balance out the remainder of what they aren't giving me. I think they're really lowering the Fusion because they're pushing so hard on them.

OTOH my payout easily shows on the Focus paperwork. I just need to make sure all their numbers add up for the final to-be-financed amount. I still think the Focus should be coming in about 20-30/mo cheaper on both financing and leasing, but again... I'll hammer all that out Monday with my main sales guy.

At this point, after another lengthy round of discussions with my wife... we both feel we'd be happiest with the Focus. It has the most bang for the buck. Plus, you can't beat their 0% financing and low lease rates. I think the 0% also applies to the Fusion financing currently. Sara also says she'd rather keep the "easy to handle / fun to drive" Focus over the Fusion and it's larger-car characteristics.

With cruise and all the other amenities of the Fusion, plus a few more the Fusion SE lacks... we'll eat the one cog deficit and enjoy everything else the Focus has to offer.

I'd still like current 05-07 owners to weigh in with their observations and comments too!

Thanks guys

Adam :)

EDIT - Daniel/Nef, do you have a shot of the underside of your car with the MBRP installed? I don't like the waffling the guys at MBRP were doing when they were talking to Ken about the GB and install. If we can see yours, we might be able to "remind them" about the work they did for you.

[Frost__2001]

Just Keep in mind Adam that you can have the dealership order you a Focus or Fusion with what you want in it regardless, if anything you could get the new ST Focus and it with have the disk brakes and a better sound system then that of the ZX5 if you have not had the chance to test one yet. Plus by the sounds of it the radio in the Focus you took out sounds like a base model, more then likely it lacks the AVC function. Fusions are good, but really as what Ken pointed out I agree with him on the is it really worth the extra $3050 & higher % rates on your monthly payments?

My Advice is to keep looking around and if you are thinking of another Focus, remember to look at your Current Focus's Flaws like if you are having any currently like lack of space for things in your trunk etc.... and check out and compair the complete focus Range and what model comes with what and what you can live with or live with out. who know you might like the added ponys of the ST and realize it's a better choice for you and your family as it has more features as standard equipment as part of the basic model rather then adding on the extra options to the more basic focus.

[GFX 1]

I tried out both but got a hell of a deal on my -06gfx added some mods and there here u go checked out the fusion but no insentives

[Frost__2001]

what's with the tripple post & IP thing?

[habmann]

The IP thing I've seen before on other forums. The triple post, well he's new maybe he just wants to be noticed :lol:

[Drivesthebeast]

Stockfish is pretty decent people...

I was dealing with Dave McKenzie a few weeks ago...almost bought the Silver Lincoln LSV8 that's there on their lot (O3 Ultimate with chrome rims)....

Good luck with your decision...

Also, with the 07's, the 4cyl models can come with the performance appearance package (black chrome instead of polished chrome), and a few other things. YOu can get a lot of parts for that engine, as it's the same engine from the Focus and Mazda3...

I like the AWD SEL V6 Fusion the best....came close to buying one of those not too long ago...

[NOS2Go4Me]

Unless things really go south (which I doubt), I find it likely that we'll just snag the 07 ZX5 they have on the lot. I've been trying to find an 06 because of the crazy incentives, but I haven't had much luck.

The only real downside is that the only Focus you can get 4-wheel disc brakes on is the ST. That's good for ST owners, but bad for the rest of us. Although, since they increased the diameter of the front brakes on the Focus, it definitely feels "grabbier" compared to our sedan.

I like the Fusion, I do... but the nosedive under braking and the amount of squat under acceleration is just too much for me now that I'm used to the stiff suspension of the S2. The stock SES suspension is much closer than that of the Fusion to what I have now.

Both the 2.0 and the 2.3 engines have great modding capacity. Plus, after having driven the Focus equivalent of a diesel for 3 years (5900 RPM redline anyways and revving over 5K gets really strained), the willingness of the 2.0L Duratec is a welcome addition. Plus, the 2.0L Duratec really lives up to the sounds I've heard on the Net (FJ, FF). The 2.3L in the Fusion pulls nice too, but the sounds coming out of that engine bay... ick. I've driven a 4-cyl several times and I just can't bring myself to like it.

Now, the lease / finance rates on the Focus are lower... the lease is for sure. However, the lack of incentives means the cost difference to pay off the lien isn't hidden. In any case, they cost the same per month. Hence, that's why I was trying to find an 06 or 06 with GFX.

I'm not getting the total amount I initially wanted for the Focus, but really at this point... I'm fine with that. As I think I noted earlier, at least Ford is willing to finance everything in either scenario, unlike VW. The guys at VW are great to deal with, but Ford's willingness to "play ball" scores them some major points with me.

More to come tomorrow. Keep those evaluations of the 2005-07 coming guys!

EDIT - Frost, it does have the AVC in the headunit (Sara kept playing with it!)... maybe the fact I forgot to bring some serious tunes was the reason I figured it sucked. When we check it out again this week, I'll throw some serious music at it.

I just checked the MSRP for the 07 GFX ZX5 SES with Auto... it's 21,400 after their e-Bonus. I figure we'll try to get one of those, and failing that we'll get the red 07 ZX5 SES they have on the lot. I know the 07 colour is Vermillion, but it looks closer to Infra-Red. I just love the GFX look, tho. Plus, the DRF mod is the first thing that would be done to the damn thing, lease or not :D

[NOS2Go4Me]

I just got back from checking out that car at the dealer - it's definitely a 2007 ZX5 SES in Infra Red. :blink: Infra Red was supposed to be replaced with Vermillion Red, but the sticker says the former. Neat!

Also, there's no note on the sticker of an upgraded sound system, but the dual audio controls are there.

Plus, Sara just vetoed the GFX package. So tomorrow should be just about working out the final numbers and deciding on a delivery date. I've also gotten the "golden go-ahead" for intake and exhaust, plus consideration on Roush parts as Stockfish is now the only Roush dealer for the entire region :D

[ANTHONYD]

I'm suprised you found the Fusion so desireable. You're a lot like me Adam when it comes to pickiness in a car and the Fusion for me was almost embarassing. It felt cheap, rattled and squeeked it's way to Tim Hortons and the fit and finish in Fusion was horrible. I've seen nicer knobs and seems in a Kia. :blink: I told the dealer that the Fusion was VERY disappointing. Not only did it handle like a waterbed, but it aged me 10 years in the process.

Have fun with that Gramps. (if you go for it)

But ny reading your last post you're gonna lock up a new Focus. nice!

Don't pay too much! They're not worth more than they charge! (But I'm jades so meh...take it for what it's worth.)

[NOS2Go4Me]

Yup, we're going to go after a new Focus bud. If the damn Fusion didn't sound like a tractor under full load, it would have been a different story. But, I don't think I could have listened to that sound for the next 5 years.

[ZX5chica]

When I was buying my focus, my oldest brother kept telling me to look into the Fusion... now I know that this might upset some of you on here, but I found the fusion to be similar to an oldsmobile... as in, it reminded me of my grandfathers' car.

Saying that, after I bought my focus, he went out and bought a Fusion of his own. Admittedly, after seeing it, I have to compromise and say that the styling isn't that bad (I didn't get to drive it), but I still prefer the styling of the Focus.

I've got a 2006 ZX5 SES with the GFX, 6 disc mp3 and sunroof, and from what I know, he's still paying a heck of a lot more than I am to finance his, so I might advise you re-check your dealership on those numbers he provided you.

As well, as a previous Focus owner, you know how much fun they are to dirve, so after all is said and done, I vote you get the new Focus.

[NOS2Go4Me]

I'm getting rid of our current Focus, which still has a lien against it. I don't have the whole amount by far to finish paying it out, so the dealer is. What they're offering is less than the lien, so I guess I'm re-financing accordingly. The good part is that the financing they're offering is 0%, so aside from a higher-than-usual payment for the new Focus it's business-as-usual with no extra interest accrued.

How do you find your 6-disc stereo? I take it you have the lefthand side stalk for volume as well?

[Drivesthebeast]

I've recently had some experience with the CD6 in my friends 05 ZXW SES, and it works pretty good. Kinda clunky sounding mechanically (when it's sorting the trays and loading/unloading the discs), but performance wise, it seems to be a great rig...it certainly blows away the "Monsoon" stereo his sunfire had.

Also the Shaker 500 CD6 in the New Stang's is pretty friggin impressive...sounds VERY decent for a stock stereo, and it plays a fair bit of undistorted bass, and decent volume levels...very nice peice of kit overall, and makes one a lot more heisitant to replace it with aftermarket stuff so hastily...

[Oscar The Grouch]

dammit you finalized the deal?

Do I still have a shot at the UDP and fogs???

[ZTWsquared]

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 26 2006, 05:26 PM Wrote:I'm getting rid of our current Focus, which still has a lien against it. I don't have the whole amount by far to finish paying it out, so the dealer is. What they're offering is less than the lien, so I guess I'm re-financing accordingly. The good part is that the financing they're offering is 0%, so aside from a higher-than-usual payment for the new Focus it's business-as-usual with no extra interest accrued.
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Adam … for the purpose of comparison, below is the deal that my dealer would give you on a 2007 Focus ZX5 SES with automatic. It is based on dealer cost, plus a small profit and plus a 300 admin fee.

Obviously purchasing in Cambridge is not an option for you, but armed with these numbers you will at least have a chance to really determine how good a deal you’re being offered. Alternately, you can use these numbers to determine exactly what they are truly giving you for your trade.

You won’t find too many dealers willing to just give you this number without negotiating, but since you’re a bit upside down on your trade it’s probably worth doing, and frankly at this time of year I wouldn’t pay much more for this car.

2007 Focus ZX5 SES P36/700A
Base MSRP = 18,899
Delivery = 1,100
Air tax = 100
Auto = 1,120
TOTAL MSRP = 21,219

Less Incentives / discounts
E-bonus = (500)
Ridgehill net discount = (736)

NET ACQ COST = 19,983
GST = 1,199
PST = 1,599

TOTAL ACQ = 22,781

MONTHLY PAYMENT (60 months @ 0% PAPR) = 380 *

* For every $100 of net loan payout added to your deal, add about $1.70 per month to your payments (ie: if payout is $1000 more than your trade, then your payments would be about 397)

Good luck.

[ZX5chica]

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 26 2006, 04:26 PM Wrote:How do you find your 6-disc stereo? I take it you have the lefthand side stalk for volume as well?
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I like it alot... quite useful, other than the fact that it is a bit *mechanical* sounding when the disk slots are being changed. A nice point is that the 6-disc is mp3 compatible... I actually just burned my first mp3 cd last night, put it in this morning, and was pleasantly surprised that the mp3 capability actually worked! And yes, the steering mounted volume control is there... however, I'm used to using the face of the stereo, so I don't use the steering mount as much as I should.

Good choice on the infra red!! I'm finding it really really easy to keep clean, and other than the occasional paint chips above my wheel wells, it seems to be standing up just fine.

[NOS2Go4Me]

I've never suffered paint chips over the wheel wells with the sedan... the hood is another story entirely however :rolleyes: I'll keep that in mind as we progress with the new car.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear! THANK YOU!

Keep 'em coming, boys and girls!

[NefCanuck]

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 26 2006, 01:47 PM Wrote:Also, there's no note on the sticker of an upgraded sound system, but the dual audio controls are there.

Plus, Sara just vetoed the GFX package. So tomorrow should be just about working out the final numbers and deciding on a delivery date. I've also gotten the "golden go-ahead" for intake and exhaust, plus consideration on Roush parts as Stockfish is now the only Roush dealer for the entire region :D
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I took the hit and got Ford to install the upgraded stereo after I bought the car. The changer mechanism sounds "agricultural" but since I've burned everything to mp3 CD's I don't hear the "whirr whack clunk" all that often.

Ah, your wife did you a favour the GFX package might look "cool" now but I'm willing to bet will age badly style wise. Yeah the dual controls are part of the SES package regardless of the system you have installed. I've even discovered a few things about the duplicate controls that arn't in the manual at all :blink:

NefCanuck