[ZX3TUNR]

I hate paddle shift.

I tried paddle shifting in the Benz SL500 a few times and BLAH!!!!! I found doing it auto way faster. I cant remember if Jarrod used paddle shift when he took it out.

LOL I had some fun with that car. Nothing like letting your freind let you bag her $150,000 SL500..

[dBlast]

As far as shifting is concerned, nothing beats the feel and sound of entering hot into a corner and executing a perfect couple of heel and toe downshifts (with smooth rev matching) hitting the apex, and then exiting the corner with wide open throttle and quick smooth upshifts, all perfectly choreograghed with the use of all three pedals, shifter, wheel, all at the same time.

The paddle shifter equipped car would be like driving a psuedo automatic.

I don't know if any of you have the video of the motegi battle of the super cars (was floating aroung on FJ a few months ago.) They had in car views with closeups of the pedals. The drivers in the with the fully manual shifted cars were working it around the track. The driver in the paddle shift Ferrari looked like he was on a Sunday afternoon cruise (la di da.)

Check out the in car shots of the NSX:

Motegi battle

[dad]

Marction,Dec 1 2004, 08:23 PM Wrote:I've always mentally associated paddle shifting with cars where keeping both hands on the wheel at all times is probably a really good idea (ie. a very powerful car). 

It would seem kind of funny on a Focus  ^_^

I guess the AutoX guys would love it though?
[right][snapback]72407[/snapback][/right]

you should have both hands on there anyway.......

[Euro Ford Fan]

dad,Dec 2 2004, 07:10 AM Wrote:

Marction,Dec 1 2004, 08:23 PM Wrote:I guess the AutoX guys would love it though?
[right][snapback]72407[/snapback][/right]

you should have both hands on there anyway.......
[right][snapback]72449[/snapback][/right]

LOL that's what I was going to say. But if you’re so out of control that you need to keep both hands on the steering wheel 100% of the time maybe it's time to learn to drive. You don't shift mid corner, you shift at corner entry and or exit so why would being able to keep both hands on the steering wheel 100% of the time be helpful?

I'm just never going to agree that any technical gadget wither it be a full sequential or semi sequential gear box, traction control, stability control or ABS enhances the driving experience. IMHO most drivers want and need to feel what the car is doing all these things do is dumb the experience.

(At no point am I considering race cars but production street cars only.)

[ANTHONYD]

I would think that it's important to experience driving in it's FULLEST element.

Besides....I'm not too sure the Focus is a good car to have a paddle shifter on.

I man sheesh, it's a Focus. who are we kidding? :lol:

[naz]

SMG makes you 'feel' like such a super star.. perfectly revmatching downshifts.. 'launch control' to get you the perfect launch every time.. next thing you know they'll have tracks preprogrammed into the car so all you have to do is turn the thing on and press 'go' and sit back and take a nice amusement park ride around the track while the car drives for you.

[ANTHONYD]

naz,Dec 2 2004, 09:45 AM Wrote:SMG makes you 'feel' like such a super star.. perfectly revmatching downshifts.. 'launch control' to get you the perfect launch every time..  next thing you know they'll have tracks preprogrammed into the car so all you have to do is turn the thing on and press 'go' and sit back and take a nice amusement park ride around the track while the car drives for you.
[right][snapback]72463[/snapback][/right]

Nice, then I can program my route to work into it and make my drive downtown toronto smooth like buhtah.

[tdot-zx3]

ZX3TUNING,Dec 2 2004, 06:51 AM Wrote:Dan,
i didn't say the speed sucked i said the overall enjoyment and engagement of the drive is what sucked.

No you said the system sucked. And it is far from sucking. Unless your a skilled driver and even that that your going to have to work hard to keep up with a computer controled car like that.

Im not arguing driver experience at all. Im just pointing out what you said that was incorrect.

[01-yellow-ZX3]

ZX3TUNING,Dec 2 2004, 12:51 AM Wrote:Dan,
i didn't say the speed sucked i said the overall enjoyment and engagement of the drive is what sucked.
i have driven the every car in the BMW line up. the M3 SMG and the 645 SMG are nothing to rave about as far as i'm concerned. The Audi TT tranny is even worse, btw! the SMG might be quick but speed of the shift means nothing if it's all automatic. downsifting in the SMG is 100% computer controlled... wow!? where is the fun and skill in that?

"Paddle shifters are like putting your dick in a milking machine - it's more efficient but just not as much fun."

Marction,Dec 1 2004, 09:20 PM Wrote:I know some people will disagree...but sometimes faster just isn't worth it. 

Shifting is an integral part of the driving experience for me...I wouldn't give it up for what amounts to maybe a few tenths off at the track ;)
[right][snapback]72429[/snapback][/right]

couldn't have said it better myself.

the thing i like about terry's system is that it reatins the use of the clutch if you choose and you can set the speed of the shifts to your preference.

what i would really like to see is a high based short shifter that actually completely changes the geometry pf the shifting and puts the shift knob up closer to the steering wheel.
[right][snapback]72434[/snapback][/right]

I take it you've driven both vehicles with these tranny's, right? :rolleyes:

[Marction]

dad,Dec 2 2004, 07:10 AM Wrote:

Marction,Dec 1 2004, 08:23 PM Wrote:I've always mentally associated paddle shifting with cars where keeping both hands on the wheel at all times is probably a really good idea (ie. a very powerful car). 

It would seem kind of funny on a Focus  ^_^

I guess the AutoX guys would love it though?
[right][snapback]72407[/snapback][/right]

you should have both hands on there anyway.......
[right][snapback]72449[/snapback][/right]

oh come on, you know what I mean ;)

someone would have to be reckless to lose control of a Focus...with the power on tap with an M5, or an F1 car, I'd suggest that it's much easier to f**k up.

For a pure race/course setup on a highly modified car, maybe it could be useful...on a daily driven factory Focus, what's the point?

[BerinG]

Road Race.. nuff said ;)

[ZX3TUNING]

tdot-zx3,Dec 2 2004, 07: Wrote:No you said the system sucked. And it is far from sucking. Unless your a skilled driver and even that that your going to have to work hard to keep up with a computer controled car like that.

Im not arguing driver experience at all. Im just pointing out what you said that was incorrect.
[right][snapback]72487[/snapback][/right]

fair enough, but to me, anytime ther driver looses control of an aspect of controlling the car it sucks! ;) :P that is what i meant, obviosuly, not what i typed.

01-yellow-ZX3,Dec 2 2004 Wrote:I take it you've driven both vehicles with these tranny's, right?  :rolleyes:
[right][snapback]72498[/snapback][/right]

Actually i have.
i've driven them back to back, have you? :rolleyes:
went from a SMG M3 to a Manual M3 and then a Manual 645 to a SMG 645, one right after another. after lunch, i also abused a new Manual 545, Manual 02 M5 and an auto 01 745 all in the same day. gotta love it when your dad is friends with the owner of one of the biggest BMW dealerships in Western Canada and invites your dad(and you) out to a test drive day on a closed course.

or were you speaking about terry's system?
well, i haven't driven terry's system because it has not yet been released.

[Flofocus]

ZX3TUNING,Dec 3 2004, 07:29 PM Wrote:gotta love it when your dad is friends with the owner of one of the biggest BMW dealerships in Western Canada and invites your dad(and you) out to a test drive day on a closed course.
[right][snapback]72732[/snapback][/right]

Yes, I would love that.

[01-yellow-ZX3]

ZX3TUNING,Dec 3 2004, 05:29 PM Wrote:

tdot-zx3,Dec 2 2004, 07: Wrote:No you said the system sucked. And it is far from sucking. Unless your a skilled driver and even that that your going to have to work hard to keep up with a computer controled car like that.

Im not arguing driver experience at all. Im just pointing out what you said that was incorrect.
[right][snapback]72487[/snapback][/right]

fair enough, but to me, anytime ther driver looses control of an aspect of controlling the car it sucks! ;) :P that is what i meant, obviosuly, not what i typed.

01-yellow-ZX3,Dec 2 2004 Wrote:I take it you've driven both vehicles with these tranny's, right?  :rolleyes:
[right][snapback]72498[/snapback][/right]

Actually i have.
i've driven them back to back, have you? :rolleyes:
went from a SMG M3 to a Manual M3 and then a Manual 645 to a SMG 645, one right after another. after lunch, i also abused a new Manual 545, Manual 02 M5 and an auto 01 745 all in the same day. gotta love it when your dad is friends with the owner of one of the biggest BMW dealerships in Western Canada and invites your dad(and you) out to a test drive day on a closed course.

or were you speaking about terry's system?
well, i haven't driven terry's system because it has not yet been released.
[right][snapback]72732[/snapback][/right]

And the Audi tranny?

[ZX3TUNING]

which one?
you mean the tranny in the new S4, TT or the V6 TT?

the S4 and TT have the same old shitty tiptronic as was released 5+ years ago.
the V6 TT has the new new tiptronic(forget what it's called) and was awful to drive. the shifts were not crisp although decently quick, downshifting was a waste of time and effort and the overall feel of the car was once again nothing compaired to the same car in manual.
the V6 TT shifting system while an improvement over the standard tiptronic still didn't win me over and my dad, who is not much of a "driver", even noted he thought the V6 TT was more fun in full Auto that in tiptronic.

you don't have to agree with me.
i'm just giving you my opinion on how i thought the cars stacked up.

out of the entire Audi line-up, the new V8 S4 with the 6-speed is an absolute amazing car!
optioned out for $15-20,000cnd less than the M3 in comparable trim, i'd take the S4 over the M3 even if it was $20,000cnd more! power in the new S4 is seamless and right from idle-on. the M3 while blazing quick is only fun to drive in the top half of the power band. i dunno about you but needing to rev a car to redline to make it fun is not a car i would buy... probably why i didn't get a SiR or ITR when i bought my focus!

on a side note:
if one were to buy a new S4, a nice set of coilovers, intake, race headers, high flow cats and a nice free flowing exhaust would be awsome! they sound just amazing stock, free up that beautiful V8 and you would have a car to cream your pants over! :blink:

[Marction]

I'd love to drive the S4...a friend is thinking of trading in his TT for one, so maybe I'll get the chance sometime :)

I sat in one at the car show this year...beautiful car...I like the understated, almost sleeper look.