[NOS2Go4Me]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Yet again, those of us who drive this country forward are being held hostage by a few who want an entire country to grind to a halt. Once again, our security forces at all levels will do nothing to ensure they are not demonized in the process of upholding the laws of this country.

There are now over 30 million people in this country. A large majority of us drive the economy and make this country what it is. For those who do not wish to take part in the day to day activities (but still insist on handouts without holding their own people responsible for how the handouts are controlled) of this country but still wish to gripe about past wrongs... perhaps if you stopped living in a self-perceived bubble you wouldn't have a problem.

Sorry about the rant folks, but I've had enough of this domestic terrorism s***. And that's exactly what it is. Seeing as they're so efficient at flouting the laws that the rest of us follow daily, why don't they "occupy" Parliament Hill or Queen's Park and other provincial legislatures to get their story heard, to get their land claims settled?

What's happening is the routine victimization of those who are behaving in a decidedly Canadian fashion and not pushing back. They're showing patience for people who are habitually sinking back into the dark ages with their tactics.

You can go ahead and argue that the same was done to them a number of years ago, but consider two things:

- Why didn't they fight back harder? Why did they sign the treaties? Do they not then have their own leaders to blame?

- Since when do two wrongs make a right? Are we all to embrace "an eye for an eye"? If so, we all know where that philosophy is getting Israel and Palestine.

I'm sorry, but if there are massive numbers of people worldwide who insist on joining the world as it exists today I cannot accept the cries of a few aboriginals in Canada who refuse to come and sit at the same table as the rest of us, to work alongside us, to become educated alongside us and to pay the same taxes for the same services we all receive.

"We were here first" means nothing anymore. It's a cry for a handout, that's all. If you want the quality of life, the healthcare and the education, the housing and the cars and the money you should work just as hard as any other Canadian who has paid to educate themselves beyond an OSSD and who routinely pays taxes for all the things we take for granted.

I know the conditions on the reserves are s*** by and large. I know a lot have substance abuse problems. And I am not in any way denying or downplaying the religious torture they suffered at the hands of Christianity and boarding schools. But shouldn't enough be enough? Pick yourselves up and get educated. Join the rest of Canadians in the pursuit of a happy life. The tools are there, but we're not seeing a real will to use them.

I'm not saying they have to discard their heritage in order to succeed... just obey the laws and just be. The violent rhetoric solves nothing - neither does lashing out at Canadians who've been here well over 100 years in some cases who go about their business without harming a hair on anyone's heads.

[Focus man. Focus.]

I don't understand how they can get away with something like this. If anyone else were to push broken down cars into the road, set garbage cans on fire and walk around with automatic weapons the police would have the ETF their and a lot of people would be arrested. But it seems that when the Native people do it everyone just stands back and watches. I don't understand the double standards set in place by the government. This issues were settled a few years back but it seems to keep coming up. I say send in the cops arrest the people involved and teach them a lesson. But on the otherhand we keep bending over to their demands which in turn allows them to do it agian and again whenever they feel like causing more problems for the tax paying, law abiding citizens of this fine country. It disgusts me that double standards exist in situations like this.

[mo_focus]

Bring the cowboys back :D this is too much

j/k. having inside information to some of the stuff that goes on borders, these guys are getting away with murder everyday. They are abusing their powers and misusing them. Border crossings do not stop these guys and they are bringing guns/drugs and everything else everyday to this country. You will see 16 yr old kid’s driving high end SUV’s across the border every day and you know what’s inside, but unfortunately no one ca stop them.

I have no sympathy for natives; they are just digging themselves deeper and deeper with this new BS as well. Way to go. If you are trying to prove a point, this is not it obviously.

[Frost__2001]

I'm staying out of this one......

[zx5power]

I was wondering why I had to take a 3 hour detour because the 401 was closed , I say arrest the whole bunch.

[PDW]

ok, time for what seems to be the only native guy on the board to chime in.....sigh... Ill do it point form to avoid any long reads...
-treaties
- many signed under false circumstances (ie forced/tricked) and the majority of them are not followed which rasies the issues we are seeing today.
- most if not all treaties were made understanding we would SHARE land yet we are denied access constantly.
- I forget the number of treaty but healthcare was promised as was non-taxation. Pst we do not pay for and major sales made on reserves we do not pay either, yay.. that amounts to ..uhh... cheap smokes..

Border crossing
- we haev the right to move back and fourth freely between the u.s and canada due to a treaty agreement
- we WILL need passports once that goes into place.
- we DO get pulled over and searched, NAtive people brigning drugs and weapons is a sterotype as many non natrives do the same thing. I have been pulled over MANY times, it seems almost 1 in 6 trips I get pulled over and my car searched.

protests
- everyone in canada has the constitutional right to protest.
- the highway incident was a peaceful demonstration, however the guy comeenting on guns was way out of hand and uneeded.
- there was a better way to go about it, and troubling the general population was not it. Why not line the highways with signs rather than shut it down, then people may have been more open to the issues rather than what we have here is people just pissed at indians.
- as far as OKA goes which seems to have been hinted at it wasa very violent conflict which started with violent acts against the band there with the rock throwing incident where the non natives dropped and threw rocks from and overpass at a bus full of elders, women and children who were leaving the reserve for safety.

personally
-I dont mind paying taxes that I do since I take advantage of the health care system even though it was promised
- residential schools have taken a part of my life and culture that I am working hard at getting back, even with funding that has been promised recvently revoked by the harper gonvernment.
- I still feel like the last safe racism in canada is against my people and it kind of lets me down everytime I see how easily peoples opinions are swayed against our fights.
- I am let down by the acts of the people who shut down the highway, not a good thing to do on a weekend people look forward to. Harper is probably laughing himself to sleep now knowing he has more of the public in his side. but this is the point. the governmetn wont listen unless we trouble the public then it becomes their problem, but troubling the public causes us more problems in the long run. Conservatives country wide are laughing....(i say this because they have the worst track record regarding native rights throughout history and currently)


recommended
- familiarize yourself with treaties and treaty making process throughout our history with Native people. and treaties that exisit for that matter.
- also legislation created to contain the "native problem" in the royal proclamation, BNA act, the white paper, and constituion. it would shock and surprise you to see some of the stuff that is in those documents.
- discover the RCMP's true purpose as a native task force, and the wonders of on reserve "Idnian agents" whose purpose was to make sure no indians left the reserve without a pass card and controlled band money. It is where many of canadas wealthy got their start...

Im not pro native, go home whitey kind of guy. Im pro we can co-exist. but both sides need to understand more about wehre the other is coming from. the anger you see by our people is there because many non natives just jump to conclusions. you say get educated alongside you, well, I have. and it irks me to see that the majority of the population bases their opinions on assumptions, and not educated conclusions. The governemnt loves this and so does the media. you may not notcie a sympathitic story closed by a "will cost tax payers millions" or a sotry of a native leader followed by a beer commercial but it happens often.

in sum I agree, many of the actions taken are extreme and sometimes directed at the wrong people. but also you have to agree that the mentality of many canadians is terrbile towards natives and more often than not its worse than the things we do or say.

and sorry it turned out to be a long read... I tried..

[NOS2Go4Me]

I'm glad you took the time to post, PDW. I found what you posted to be quite informative. Thank you. :) - I genuinely mean that.

I do agree that a lot of natives need their quality of life improved. But, at the same time, they insist on having reserve lands to live on and they stay there. Perhaps more education is needed that they could make the move to any city in Canada and start fresh.

I really do try not to judge folks, native or not, but in reality when you drive past the "Native Friendship Centre" here in town and you know the kids outside are just waiting to get to a house party or to sell drugs... my patience for them kind of weakens, you know?

How do I know these things? My wife hung out with the native crowd all through high school here in North Bay. I've been told point blank how quite a few of "her" generation spent a lot of their time. It's not good. The bottom line is that they just don't care because noone has taught them how to care. Of course, that pertains directly to North Bay... but I'm sure there's a common thread happening here.

I really don't mind that natives get access to healthcare. I don't even mind that they pay less taxes. What I do mind is when the sum total of their day doesn't even amount to part time work and then they complain about the state of the housing and living environment on their reserve.

OKA - that was a disgusting set of acts committed by all sides, particularly non-natives. For all my skepticism, I've never "hated" anyone in that fashion before and I'll do my part to ensure that I never will.

I acknowledge everyone in Canada has the right to protest, but I cannot agree with illegal acts such as highway closures. There's protesting and then there's militant action bordering on domestic terrorism. I may come off as a little anti-Native in my commentary, but that's due to the fact that there currently is a double-standard for policing and law enforcement in this country, and indeed this province, when blatantly illegal acts are committed by natives and by "everyone else".

On a side note, and I'm treading on thin ice here, I'm glad you chose to "get educated". Knowledge is power. I don't know you (nor have we met), but your frankness is appreciated.

I'll start digging for more treaty info, but web-links would be greatly appreciated. :) I have absolutely no problem with this discussion turning into a mass-education tool for the members here.

[PDW]

NOS2Go4Me,Jun 29 2007, 03:09 AM Wrote:http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

There are now over 30 million people in this country. A large majority of us drive the economy and make this country what it is. For those who do not wish to take part in the day to day activities (but still insist on handouts without holding their own people responsible for how the handouts are controlled) of this country but still wish to gripe about past wrongs... perhaps if you stopped living in a self-perceived bubble you wouldn't have a problem.

You can go ahead and argue that the same was done to them a number of years ago, but consider two things:

- Why didn't they fight back harder?

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had to add...

Living in the past ? well why do we celebrate canada day, black history month, remeberance day. these too are past events.. should we stop living in the past and forget about it ? our fistory is not nearly as much of a cause to celebrate it so we are trying to correct some wrongs and slowly it is happening. VERY slowly....


fight back harder.... well disease played a part. as did military tactics which prevented fish from travelling down river to deplete an important food source. overhunting other food sources also played a major role. So did battles which were settled and then the army turned around and killed the band they just reached an agreement with.

I dont mean to insult you because otherwise you seem like a nice guy. But this is a perfect example of someone knowing a little bit of something and assuming the rest. Real history is crazy. I realize that NAtive history is a little biased the same way Non native history is biased, although non native tends to hide a little more. But I have come to see that I need to know both sides, I just wish everyone else felt the same way.

edit- I just read your response... and will add that I agree that there are alot of problems but keep in mind we are a small population so things stand out more.. friendship centres to me stand out no more than shelters in major cities. each have crowds outside, but you seem to notice friendship centres.

and wanting to keep our lands has more to do with making a living than being lazy. we want the land for more oppurtunity to do positive things with it as some reserves have done by making spas, (sterotype) casinos, hotels, landmarks. EUropeans came to the americas for land and opprtunity rights? well all alot of NAtive people want is that same chance. But at the same time some lands are considered to be sacred to us the same way golgatha would be looked at by christians. places where we believe the creator or other spirits have walked te earth, or even burial grounds such.

I am in ottawa right now, suprisingly celebrating canada day. I was also detoured by the roadblock. but if you want I can post some links when I get home. I have lots.

I have edited thins like 8 times now lol.. but for the most part we are looking for oppurtunity, not handouts. living conditions sucks but we have little chance to change it. We can move that is easy but we would also be leaving our lands and homes and in treaties it is said that once we did that we lose all rights to that land and we lose our rights as native people. There are bad seeds that want a handout, but there are people like that in every culture.

and a side note here is that even though we have reserve lands we only have legal rights to the top 6 feet of land. meaning we cannot beenfit from any batural resources which may lay underneath. so that chance to make something is immediately lost.

[zx5power]

All I gotta say is people were seriously hurt over that Roadblock , travelling through a country road that the limit should be about 50 km with hundreds of tractor trailers going about 140 km trying to keep up with there time due to the detour. I witnessed a car cut in half and a tractor trailer in the swamp and im sure there was more judging on how they were driving.
If it was any other people other than natives the police would have gathered them up and took them to jail . Its ok to protest but you dont do it to affect the general public and cause havoc burning things and what not . Go to the parliament building with signs and stay there all day .
Thats my opinion on it

[NOS2Go4Me]

I had a nice response to your response, PDW... but my in-laws crappy wireless ate it somehow, I s*** you not.

I firmly believe then, based on everything you've "said" just now that natives need to renegotiate the entire deal... let them move off the treaty land without losing it to afford themselves the chance to better themselves without a downside. On a related note, I'm all for satellite internet feeds to allow distance learning (on the government's dime, no less) to allow more native youth to complete their OSSD and take remote post-secondary learning opportunities.

The difference between shelters and friendship centres is that a shelter is non-denominational and for the homeless and downtrodden to get a night's sleep, and (to my admittedly limited knowledge) a friendship centre is for learning, conveyance of resources and a non-judgemental place for natives and indeed non-natives to congregate socially. Please correct me if I am wrong on the friendship centre.

I want to see everyone succeed in this country. I hate poverty and I hate seeing people suffer. However, I'm of the mind that occupations of disputed lands and indeed the attacking of established infrastructure is not the way to go about things. It wouldn't be tolerated if it was done by white, black, asian or asian indian folks. It shouldn't be tolerated when done by natives, either.

I don't want another Ipperwash or Oka. At the same time, I don't want another Caledonia or Deseronto. I don't pretend to have all the facts on the last two disputes in question (or even the first two). What I do know is that because of an agreement that may or may have not taken place, the people living in Caledonia right now are subject to fear and uncertainty every day.

Violence is not the answer, and neither is violent occupation, What if a group of white Canadians (or black Canadians) decided that a piece of land that was currently a reserve really shouldn't be because the land was lett to them by their settler forefathers? Can you imagine the rioting and bloodshed from an ensuing "occupation"? I'd also imagine that they'd be carted away by the OPP or the RCMP for their actions within hours or days at the most.

Again, I really do thank you for the frank and honest discussion. I hope you can make it to the BBQ so we can actually meet and have a great discussion about whatever crosses your mind. :)

I'd also love to see that car of yours!

Adam

[meford4u]

The idians lost the war. White man won. Case closed.

Why do we, the white man, have to keep paying for it?

You'll never get me to understand why we, the taxpayer, don't have the same rights as indians. We are law abiding citizens and live by the rules of this country. The indians want their own rules and their own country.

That would take another fight.

You would lose again.

[PDW]

meford4u,Jul 1 2007, 11:05 PM Wrote:The idians lost the war.  White man won.  Case closed.

Why do we, the white man, have to keep paying for it?

You'll never get me to understand why we, the taxpayer, don't have the same rights as indians.  We are law abiding citizens and live by the rules of this country.  The indians want their own rules and their own country.

That would take another fight. 

You would lose again.
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ummm, treaties..... but otherwise just wow....I dont even know what to say to this post. Totally clueless/Undeniably Conservative I guess are two things that come to mind....\

Quick history lesson....
First of all there were never really any wars. And the battles that did take place Native people usually had the upper hand due to the extreme enviornment and Europeans not being in their element. They quickly realised this and immediately started peace agreements and this is how the treaty making process began. It was not Native people who started these types of agreements it was Europeans, because they did not want to lose numbers and seens it as any eay way to manipulate Native people which they did.

who even says its taxpayers money that goes towards anything First Nations related... Look into treaties and youll see the money actually comes from a very small percentage of natural resource sales, and land use costs, which was part of treatie agreements. You want to get mad at someone get mad at your all powerful "White Man" for making those treaties and having to live up to them. It has nothing to do with handouts, but everything to do with living up to agreements made. Tax money has little to do with anything but thats what everyone wants you to think.

You still want to beleive its solely taxpayers money then why not get mad that churches are not taxed and still receive all benefits.? Why not hate on kids who decide the cost of a box of condoms is more than having 3 babies in their teenage years and you the taxpayer having to pay for their lives? Or government funding for shelters or soup kitchens in major urban areas ? These are pure tax dollars, but you can reason with those decisions somehow.

And again, who says we dont pay tax. Im fully taxed at my job, and I pay GST on all purchases. The only place we dont pay any taxes at all are employment, and sales made ON reserves and like I have said that equal cheap smokes and the majority of the cheap smoke buyers are not native, so its not like were hording this "privelage" from anyone else..

So you can say "F'em, they are stupid enough to sign those treaties, I dont want to pay for stupid Indians whose ancestors made poor decisions by signing them" think again.. It was also yours who signed them and all we are trying to do is make sure the agreements are lived up to. You want to think its your tax dollars that go into First Nations money thats your choice but its a choice made out of pure ignorance.

[D-Dub]

I dunno what to really write, but I have a couple of things to say.

I understand that there were treaties signed many years back that gave you rights in exchange for the land.

What I dont understand is if you want better living conditions build a better house and if you dont have the money get a job, build your credit up an eventually take a mortgage out. You need money if you want to do anything, what else can you do?, go into the forest and chop some trees down and bust out a house?.

The reason the reserves are suffering so much is that there is no business, which in turn means no money. I think one problem is that the reserves are located in places that are not close to major populations. If you think about it you cant build a best buy on the reserve and expect people to drive 30kms or more to shop there. This is something where the Natives need to start talking to each other and create a plan, then propose it to the Guv and ask for certain grants.

"Promises are promises", your dealing with politicians, how many times have they said they would cut pst, but havent?. You dont see me marching down the highway with a group of people. Get a better leader to represent you and take the fight to Parliament.

You have equal opportunity in this country if not more then anyone that lives here, to say the government is cutting back and preventing you from getting anywhere in life is bulls*** (sorry). Ill tell you why:

My parents came to this country with $200 bucks in there pocket, no english skills and I was wrapped in a blanket. They lived in the projects for 3 years, took english school and went on to college. The only thing they had paid was the housing an the english. Lucky? no, cause I know half of my friends parents did the same thing. Now I have 1 aunt here that arrived 8 years after us and the rest of my family is in Europe, so no family external family support. One thing I learned is if you speak the language and you have some common sense you can do anything thing here.

Times are changing if you dont want to get with the future by all means build a wall around your land and chill there for the rest of your life. Its time to get on and enjoy your life and stop dwelling about the past.

Im half German you dont me walking up to every Jew and saying sorry??

This isn't a slam against you, but there are many things you can do in this world, and this country is seriously good to do them in.

[PDW]

I think the main problem here is people assume to much. Ya d-dub its easy to say all that stuff too but in reality if you dont really know the issues its hard to judge, and based off you argument, you really dont know the issues. Ya past is past, but thats quite the BS argument you have. If thats the case all peace agreements, treaties, legislation and our own constitution are utter crap, because what are they really but promises or agreements between two or more sovereign bodies that were made in the past. Provinces are crap too since they are invisible borders agreed upon in the past. Health care, taxes, everything.... Basically all I am trying to say is that our lives are based off these types of agreements, to say the ones ragarding First NAtions people should be null and void is quite a statement....

Second, I am first to agree that the people that get media coverage are the wrong people. We do need better leaders that get the attention of the media.. But wait, we do have those....Its just the radicals get more viewers, they are what people really want to see... Ipperwash had people try to get attention before the whole george incident, Kasechewan (spelled wrong, sorry) had people trying to get attention from the government years ago. Oka wasnt recognized until a blockade.. THe problem is that people only know of two types of Indian... The noble savage who loves nature, or the hot blooded warrior.. There is no room for the Intellectual Indian. Trust me, I spent a year studying this phenomenon.....

[ZTWsquared]

So what's the answer?

It seems to me that you're saying the first nations don't believe that the Canadian government has lived up to any of its agreements and that the courts are in collusion with them and first nations can't win ... and furthermore that if only the treaties and agreements had been honoured in the way that first nation's interpret them, all native problems would have been avoided and that all concerns with poverty, drugs, suicide, unemployment and the associated run ins with the law would be no different than the rest of Canadian society?

Sorry ... I just have a lot of trouble accepting that. There's got to be more to it than that.

IIRC there are some first nations that have won settlements from various governments worth tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Has that solved all the problems in those communities?

And what of the possibility that the first nations' interpretation of a treaty or an agreement is in fact wrong ... if first nations can't or won't trust the Canadian courts to be impartial and fair the alternative is anarchy ... and IMO we're close to that now.

How do you propose that the majority of Canadian society respond to a relatively small group that doesn't defer to the same authority structure as the rest of us?

How does saying "we don't trust or respect your judicial system unless it agrees with us" come anywhere close to creating an environment conducive to a lasting resolution?

I for one want nothing more than the relationship between first nations and the rest of Canadian society to be resolved peacefully and fairly ... to all parties ... and I'm prepared to support some significant compromises if an impartial and fair arbiter says they are warranted.

But I'll be damned if I'll do so with even a figurative gun to my head ... and my advice to anyone in our government who will listen, is to stop talking until the blackmail and the greymail ends.

I'm sorry if the first nations' believe that the Canadian system of justice isn't their system and won't in fact give them a just decision. But IMO there is no honourable alternative that doesn't either come out of the ballot box or out of a courtroom ... and native people have the same access to both as I do.

PDW,Jul 5 2007, 09:08 PM Wrote:I think the main problem here is people assume to much. Ya d-dub its easy to say all that stuff too but in reality if you dont really know the issues its hard to judge, and based off you argument, you really dont know the issues. Ya past is past, but thats quite the BS argument you have. If thats the case all peace agreements, treaties, legislation and our own constitution are utter crap, because what are they really but promises or agreements between two or more sovereign bodies that were made in the past. Provinces are crap too since they are invisible borders agreed upon in the past. Health care, taxes, everything.... Basically all I am trying to say is that our lives are based off these types of agreements, to say the ones ragarding First NAtions people should be null and void is quite a statement....

Second, I am first to agree that the people that get media coverage are the wrong people. We do need better leaders that get the attention of the media.. But wait, we do have those....Its just the radicals get more viewers, they are what people really want to see... Ipperwash had people try to get attention before the whole george incident, Kasechewan (spelled wrong, sorry) had people trying to get attention from the government years ago. Oka wasnt recognized until a blockade..  THe problem is that people only know of two types of Indian... The noble savage who loves nature, or the hot blooded warrior.. There is no room for the Intellectual Indian. Trust me, I spent a year studying this phenomenon.....
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[ZED_not_zee]

I don't care who you are if you have a problem in this country puting wrecked cars on railroad tracks and puting peoples lives in danger is wrong... back up any groups reason for doing so with a library of facts, it still does not make it right... and the ofending group should be severaly punished.

[PDW]

ZED_not_zee,Jul 8 2007, 03:13 PM Wrote:I don't care who you are if you have a problem in this country puting wrecked cars on railroad tracks and puting peoples lives in danger is wrong... back up any groups reason for doing so with a library of facts,  it still does not make it right...  and the ofending group should be severaly punished.
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I dont actually think the put cars on the railroad, only a bus on the highway

[NOS2Go4Me]

Actually it was a decrepit bus across the tracks in Deseronto, if that's the siutuation that's being referred to here.

I guess my point is why can't more natives just take the education that is being freely given to them? I put myself over $20,000 in debt to educate myself beyond a secondary school level and any aboriginal citizen has access to that same education for free!

If knowledge is power, why aren't more natives empowering themselves? If addiction and over-eating are elective disorders, why are those who are becoming addicted not shouldering the responsibility in removing themselves from the same problems that other willing individuals already do?

I'm reminded of the ruling out in BC last week about the banning of ice cream trucks from a reservation. Why ban the trucks and not smoking or drinking? Why not educate folks on proper portion sizes and responsbile diets? Eating ice cream is a choice, not a forced activity. If you can't keep yourself from eating massive amounts of ice cream, the "white man" is not to blame for that. But, in that ban of ice cream trucks... they are effectively saying that the dietary responsibility of aboriginals falls to non-natives and not the natives themselves.

So now, when we're faced with ugly precedents like that... how are the majority of skeptical Canadians supposed to see aboriginals and their claims of hardship and inequality?

[PDW]

NOS2Go4Me,Jul 10 2007, 03:54 PM Wrote:I guess my point is why can't more natives just take the education that is being freely given to them?  I put myself over $20,000 in debt to educate myself beyond a secondary school level and any aboriginal citizen has access to that same education for free!

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Its not free. Bands disperse their funding, which is a product of treaties and not taxpayers money, as much as they can. Eduaction takes a large chunk of that but they cant afford to fund everyone to go to school. Some people are put on a waiting list and some as long a 5+ years. Osap is not readily available since we are eligble for alternate funding. Sometimes happens that oosap needs a letter from the band stating that they cannot afford to fund a student and this somehow launches an audit on the reserve, so its a pain in the ass for them and they often say yes the student will get funding just not right now...

[PDW]

NOS2Go4Me,Jul 10 2007, 03:54 PM Wrote:If knowledge is power, why aren't more natives empowering themselves? If addiction and over-eating are elective disorders, why are those who are becoming addicted not shouldering the responsibility in removing themselves from the same problems that other willing individuals already do?

I'm reminded of the ruling out in BC last week about the banning of ice cream trucks from a reservation. Why ban the trucks and not smoking or drinking? Why not educate folks on proper portion sizes and responsbile diets? Eating ice cream is a choice, not a forced activity. If you can't keep yourself from eating massive amounts of ice cream, the "white man" is not to blame for that. But, in that ban of ice cream trucks... they are effectively saying that the dietary responsibility of aboriginals falls to non-natives and not the natives themselves.

So now, when we're faced with ugly precedents like that... how are the majority of skeptical Canadians supposed to see aboriginals and their claims of hardship and inequality?
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First of all I never heard of this ban and will havee to look into it....
but...
No offense here but you kind of just contradicted yourself a bit...
Why not shoulder the responsibility ?... seems like they have and took action and "removed the problem"

Why Band ice cream and not smoking or drinking? You say eating ice cream is a choice, arent smoking or drinking choices ? addictive choices yes but people can be addicted to food as well.. and we have a higher disposition to food related illness such as diabetes..

Banning the ice cream trucks hardly says white man is to blame rather than we see a problem and are taking steps to prevent it... "taking esponsibility" as you put it... much like smoking bans in cities..

and then

Quote:So now, when we're faced with ugly precedents like that... how are the majority of skeptical Canadians supposed to see aboriginals and their claims of hardship and inequality

well again, no offense here... but it seems like your searching for something to complain about