[cornflakes]

So i was watching the news and they were talking about how GM is coming out with some amazing hybrid cars...the best one called the "Volt". It is going to be N. America's most fuel efficient car.

But then they shared a bit of the history of hybrid technology and how Japanese automakers have taken over the USA big 3, and a big part of that has to do with the hybrid technology they BOUGHT off GM.

Japanese cars have been selling hybrid cars for 10 years now and have gained the image of "innovators" and "leading-edge" but in fact it was GM automakers that invented the hybrid technology but sold it to Japanese automakers cuz they thought there was no future in it.


Well now GM is pumping out hybrid cars only 2-3 years....much later than the 10 years Japanese cars have been out.

It must suck having to fight against your opponents while they wield your own technology against you that you sold to them.

[Scorcher000]

It's ok all this electric crap is no worth it. Wait untill the Hydrogen cars reach here. Those engines have huge possibilties in power.

[OAC_Sparky]

One of the most commonly held misconceptions is that the Big 3 gave/sold hybrid technology to the Japs.

The truth is that all manufacturers exchange patent rights because there are a lot of overlap and similarity between systems developed seperately; so much so that its safer to exchange rights than run the risk of being sued.

One example that comes to mind is Ford receiving hybrid tech in exchange for diesel tech. Of course, the media spins it as Ford's Hybrid system was developed by Toyota when in fact that is not true.

[DD1]

Scorcher000,Jan 15 2009, 07:02 PM Wrote:It's ok all this electric crap is no worth it. Wait untill the Hydrogen cars reach here. Those engines have huge possibilties in power.
[right][snapback]279609[/snapback][/right]

You will never get teh TQ out of anything like you can a DC motor... Hydrogen....Hmmmm Zeppelin ring a bell

[crazikev]

Scorcher000,Jan 15 2009, 07:02 PM Wrote:It's ok all this electric crap is no worth it. Wait untill the Hydrogen cars reach here. Those engines have huge possibilties in power.
[right][snapback]279609[/snapback][/right]

What are you talking about?

As a matter of fact I just saw a 670241 HP electric motor today. Of course it was acting the opposite of a motor when I saw it, or i would be dead. lol

[Spinal]

only prob with the electric cars is having enough juice to last, not that they cant make power.

[crazikev]

Spinal,Jan 15 2009, 10:26 PM Wrote:only prob with the electric cars is having enough juice to last, not that they cant make power.
[right][snapback]279622[/snapback][/right]

The solution to that is to fill the trunk with coal to feed the electric motor.

[NOS2Go4Me]

The main problem with hydrogen is that when it is maintained in a state that allows it to be used as fuel, it is MUCH more dangerous than say, a propane-powered vehicle. You'd need something more than standard propane-type fuel cell protection for a hydrogen-powered vehicle and that's what keeping them off the roads right now. Well, that and the near-total absence of filling stations.

[Frost__2001]

the thing is though GM's hybrid system is a 2 mode and only comes into use when the car reaches a certen speed or consistent rev. it's similar to what BMW & Mercedes are developing for their RWD cars.

[mo_focus]

Frost__2001,Jan 16 2009, 02:43 PM Wrote:the thing is though GM's hybrid system is a  2 mode and only comes into use when the car reaches a certen speed or consistent rev. it's similar to what BMW & Mercedes are developing for their RWD cars.
[right][snapback]279642[/snapback][/right]

yeah the new insigh Hybird is like that as well. There is an interesting article about Diesel vs. this type of Hybirds. They did a cost comparision for driving both vehicles.

I've still go with diesel just bc of my driving requirements at this time. if i were to get a job lets say downtown toronto then i would go with something that will allow me to travell on battery power first and then when its needed turn on the gas. I think the new Prius is set for this as of 2009. Its a plug in car that will drive for 80-100km without the need of gas. similar to GM's Volt.

[darkpuppet]

All this excitement over hybrids that still can't beat a VW Polo Diesel for mileage.

And that's even with the hybrids getting a 'cheating chance' with the EPA. I don't know of too many people driving priuses and insights that got better mileage than my focus did... I say drop the cost of hybrid tech, and put in smart engine stop/start and variable displacement and you'd get just as good mileage as a hybrid.

BTW.. the plug-in hybrids would do great in a city because they consume little power when stopped... .of course, I'm not sure how that'll hold up in canada as battery efficiency drops in cold weather and you'd need a way to keep the passengers warm as well.

[Scorcher000]

NOS2Go4Me,Jan 16 2009, 07:20 AM Wrote:The main problem with hydrogen is that when it is maintained in a state that allows it to be used as fuel, it is MUCH more dangerous than say, a propane-powered vehicle. You'd need something more than standard propane-type fuel cell protection for a hydrogen-powered vehicle and that's what keeping them off the roads right now. Well, that and the near-total absence of filling stations.
[right][snapback]279634[/snapback][/right]

Not to be a know it all. I was watching the last episode of TopGear in season 12 ( http://www.hessmo.com ) and they have Hydrogen cars in the state of California and the shell stations provide the fuel and it cost about the same as Gas. Yes they would need a bit more care at the pumps to prevent fires but you listen to how much electricity one cube of Hydrogen can produce when they speel out the details of it.

[Frost__2001]

darkpuppet,Jan 16 2009, 12:06 PM Wrote:All this excitement over hybrids that still can't beat a VW Polo Diesel for mileage. 

And that's even with the hybrids getting a 'cheating chance' with the EPA.  I don't know of too many people driving priuses and insights that got better mileage than my focus did... I say drop the cost of hybrid tech, and put in smart engine stop/start and variable displacement and you'd get just as good mileage as a hybrid.

BTW.. the plug-in hybrids would do great in a city because they consume little power when stopped... .of course, I'm not sure how that'll hold up in canada as battery efficiency drops in cold weather and you'd need a way to keep the passengers warm as well.
[right][snapback]279660[/snapback][/right]

that's true, I think on top gear they compaired the Prius, and the Polo and the polo got 71.8 MPG where the Prius could never make it past 47. I men heck I'd love to have a diesel focus as I know the milage would be better then anything hybrid on the market, I'm kinda disapointed as VW dropped their diesel hybrid program, as they deemed it non profitable to them. So far from what I've read and seen no other car company has really tried to venture in to that devlopment.

[NOS2Go4Me]

The scary thing is that one day, mind you not anytime terribly soon, all dino oil WILL RUN OUT. Truly synthetic lubricants will need to be found by then, and that's not even speaking to crude oil as a power source for mobile and stationary powerplants.

[FocusGuy7476]

the main problem with hydrogen as a fuel, is that it is not worth it to extract hydrogen. Economically, there is the huge cost of producing enough hydrogen to supply everyone in the world with a viable fuel. The energy needed to produced it is greater than the net energy received from the activity. That and hydrogen fuel cells create electricity that is used to drive an electric motor.

[Frost__2001]

NOS2Go4Me,Jan 16 2009, 02:08 PM Wrote:The scary thing is that one day, mind you not anytime terribly soon, all dino oil WILL RUN OUT. Truly synthetic lubricants will need to be found by then, and that's not even speaking to crude oil as a power source for mobile and stationary powerplants.
[right][snapback]279685[/snapback][/right]

True, & not true yes we will eventually run out of oil at some point and will rely on synthethics, but did you know Originally the Diesel motor was developed to run strickly on peanut oil, and the only reason why it runs on fossil feul is because at the time there was not enough peanut oil at that time (going back over a century) it's why today you can run a diesel running car, truck, or what not, on any used cooking oils really, as it's more abundant now.

[mo_focus]

Frost__2001,Jan 17 2009, 07:27 AM Wrote:

NOS2Go4Me,Jan 16 2009, 02:08 PM Wrote:The scary thing is that one day, mind you not anytime terribly soon, all dino oil WILL RUN OUT. Truly synthetic lubricants will need to be found by then, and that's not even speaking to crude oil as a power source for mobile and stationary powerplants.
[right][snapback]279685[/snapback][/right]

True, & not true yes we will eventually run out of oil at some point and will rely on synthethics, but did you know Originally the Diesel motor was developed to run strickly on peanut oil, and the only reason why it runs on fossil feul is because at the time there was not enough peanut oil at that time (going back over a century) it's why today you can run a diesel running car, truck, or what not, on any used cooking oils really, as it's more abundant now.
[right][snapback]279719[/snapback][/right]

very true. So thats why i still think diesel is the way to go. Even when you run out of oil, you can just use vegatable oil and i guess instead of farmers growing the E85 crap they can just grow sunflowers :)

[ZTWsugardaddy]

cornflakes,Jan 15 2009, 10:10 PM Wrote:It must suck having to fight against your opponents while they wield your own technology against you that you sold to them.
[right][snapback]279601[/snapback][/right]

This has happened before. The VCR was developed in North America and sold to the Japanese.