[Canadian ST]

Well it seems I have lost my job as well as 2100 others.


By Rob DelaneyMarch 3 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Steel Corp., the largest U.S.- based steelmaker by sales, is idling most of its operations in Canada and laying off 1,500 workers because of falling demand.

Production will be halted within “weeks” at facilities in Hamilton and Nanticoke, Ontario, the company said today in a statement. Some of the work will be transferred to plants in Pennsylvania, Indiana and Alabama, U.S. Steel said.

Steel prices have plunged by more than half from a record $1,068 a ton in July as the slowing global economy reduced demand for automobiles, appliances and homes. Pittsburgh-based U.S. Steel has joined competitors including Nucor Corp. and Steel Dynamics Inc. in slashing production since the fourth quarter.

“The difficult decision to continue to temporarily consolidate our production, we believe, is a necessary response to current market conditions,” Chief Executive Officer John Surma said in the statement.

U.S. Steel acquired the plants in 2007 when it bought Stelco Inc. for $1.1 billion, marking the sale of the last Canadian- owned, integrated steel mill. The two plants are U.S. Steel’s only facilities in Canada.

In November, U.S. Steel announced 177 workers will be fired at the company’s Hamilton and Nanticoke plants. The terminations announced today are in addition to the earlier ones, Erin DiPietro, a company spokeswoman, said in a telephone interview.

The average price of hot-rolled steel sheet, the benchmark product used in cars and appliances, dropped to $499 a ton last month from $514 in January, Purchasing Magazine said Feb. 27. Cold-rolled sheet fell to $588 a ton from $607.

The statement was released after the close of regular trading on the New York Stock Exchange, where U.S. Steel rose 33 cents, or 2 percent, to $17.21 at 4:15 p.m. The shares have fallen 54 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Rob Delaney in Toronto at robdelaney@bloomberg.net. [/I][/I]

[Oscar The Grouch]

That's so BS. Really sorry that you are in the laid off mode for a while. I was there for a bit, 2 months, and it is the s***ty time.

Hopefully the economy picks back up soon enough and these job losses come back.

[ZTWsquared]

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 3 2009, 09:06 PM Wrote:That's so BS.  Really sorry that you are in the laid off mode for a while.  I was there for a bit, 2 months, and it is the s***ty time.

Hopefully the economy picks back up soon enough and these job losses come back.
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Sorry to hear about your job Nathan, and I agree this really sucks and it smacks of US politics too ... I can't imagine that the newer of your plants has a greater cost of production vs. the US plants - - especially considering the exchange right now.

Next time a US company tries to buy a Canadian business in a critical industry like steel production, we should all remember to call our MPs and tell them what we think of it.

[Canadian ST]

Thanks for the support guys!

Its really fawked up because the mill I work (worked) at has always been one of the worlds most efficiently run steel mills. Since its opening 30 years ago not a single employee has been laid off, now plants that cost 2x as much per ton are running at 100% capacity.?

Oh well time to think about going back to school.

[ZTWsugardaddy]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but count me in (misery loves company). I also lost my job (225 jobs eliminated February 18). The U.S. owned corporation I worked for called me at home to tell me my position was eliminated effective immediately. The stock went from a 52 week high of $42 to closing today at $1.09.

The media isn't helping by telling people to tighten their belts, reduce costs and spending. What we need is more spending. Without any spending, everything is slowly grinding to a halt.

[Canadian ST]

^^Yah these are hard times, I almost went out and bought some new speakers today...Very glad I didn't.

I hope eveything turns around this year, I guess only time will tell. On a postive note now I have time to fix a leak in the foundation.

[NefCanuck]

Damn... sorry to hear about this...

We're hearing all sorts of bad omens even in my sector (Legal Aid) but it begs the question, they carve us up where will people go to get help?

Right now I'm so busy fielding calls I hardly know whether I'm coming or going :ph34r:

NefCanuck

[ZTWsugardaddy]

Canadian ST,Mar 4 2009, 03:33 AM Wrote:^^Yah these are hard times, I almost went out and bought some new speakers today...Very glad I didn't.

You should have bought the speakers to help the economy.
Spend! Spend! Spend! :D

[NOS2Go4Me]

Not spending during a recession is a logical response by people clearly concerned about their short-term cash flow. I'll even admit to putting a LOT of gratutious purchasing on hold right now because I just don't want to spend frivolously during a recession. As shown in a plethora of articles around the world/web, infrastructure spending and easing of interest rates to encourage spending are two major avenues governments and top-tier, state-run banks can take to spur the economy on... and so far they're doing that.

Sorry to hear about your job, Nathan. :( Same to you sugardaddy. This is inherently what happens when outside corporations are allowed to take big footholds in Canada and then they're not compelled to stay and preserve even a small fraction of what remains as a "consolation prize".

[D-Dub]

I graduate in school in 5 weeks. We used to have a board full of jobs to apply to when we receive our diploma......now we only have two.

[ZTWsquared]

NOS2Go4Me,Mar 4 2009, 10:43 AM Wrote:Not spending during a recession is a logical response by people clearly concerned about their short-term cash flow. I'll even admit to putting a LOT of gratutious purchasing on hold right now because I just don't want to spend frivolously during a recession. As shown in a plethora of articles around the world/web, infrastructure spending and easing of interest rates to encourage spending are two major avenues governments and top-tier, state-run banks can take to spur the economy on... and so far they're doing that.

Sorry to hear about your job, Nathan. :( Same to you sugardaddy. This is inherently what happens when outside corporations are allowed to take big footholds in Canada and then they're not compelled to stay and preserve even a small fraction of what remains as a "consolation prize".
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Fortunately my business gets busier during tough times like these -- lots of bad news that client corporations need strategic communications help with -- the down side is there is a lot of pressure on fees and so although I'm busier the revenue doesn't necessarily increase at the same rate.

Having said that, I've been doing my part in spending into a slowing consumer economy, but just as with my fees I'm looking for downward pressure on prices ... and so I've purchased a dozen or so items for the Fusion and scored what I think are unprecedented deals -- including an amazing discount on Magnaflow which I've never heard of before - - details to come in a more positive thread. Look out Daniel, the Fusionator's got competition.

Good luck to all those who find themselves job hunting - - happy to check out your resumes if you want an experienced second set of eyes on them.

Edit: and Adam I concur 100% - - I don't know what mechanisms are in place to deal with foreign ownership these days, but even in a global economy there has to be some accountability for maintaining jobs in an economy that they sell into ... I hope to hell we aren't now importing steel from US Steel that's made in American factories.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Hey Ken,

Just like we get conned into paying 25% more per L than the US for gas because we're a net exporter of oil (and don't keep some for ourselves to make and sell cheaply, something clearly within our capacity to do with our current refinery infrastructure), I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new autos produced in Canada going forward were made with 100% US-made steel.

[NefCanuck]

Thing is that Canada in recognition of signing the original Free Trade Agreement and NAFTA after that and being a signatory to the WTO agreements has basically laid the groundwork for where we are now.

We are as a country still a resource based economy for the most part, despite those glimmers like RIM where we have proven to be able to compete and excel in.

If the world economy cannot afford our products versus product produced by other countries with either less cost or more government support (wether that support is legal or otherwise) we lose and there is nothing we can do to protect our own industries.

P.S. Ken - How do you spin "We're screwed" anyways? :huh: :lol:

NefCanuck

[FocusGuy7476]

NOS2Go4Me,Mar 4 2009, 05:37 PM Wrote:Just like we get conned into paying 25% more per L than the US for gas because we're a net exporter of oil (and don't keep some for ourselves to make and sell cheaply, something clearly within our capacity to do with our current refinery infrastructure), I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new autos produced in Canada going forward were made with 100% US-made steel.
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actually I've been trying to figure out if the price of oil and price of gas are related at all, and have come to the conclusion that they are not really. So the price of a barrel of crude oil has only a minor impact on the overall price of gas, it all goes back to a basic supply and demand schedule for each good. There is too much supply of oil in reserves of major countries like the US, which drove the price of oil down dramatically. Now with gas, it all comes down to refinery capacity to transform crude oil into a usable fuel for cars, and trucks. Once that supply of capacity is used up for the demand of fuel, the price of fuel will fluctuate either up or down, and it creates an excess supply of oil that need to be refined. Hope everyone understands that.

[habmann]

FocusGuy7476,Mar 4 2009, 03:18 PM Wrote:

NOS2Go4Me,Mar 4 2009, 05:37 PM Wrote:Just like we get conned into paying 25% more per L than the US for gas because we're a net exporter of oil (and don't keep some for ourselves to make and sell cheaply, something clearly within our capacity to do with our current refinery infrastructure), I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new autos produced in Canada going forward were made with 100% US-made steel.
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actually I've been trying to figure out if the price of oil and price of gas are related at all, and have come to the conclusion that they are not really. So the price of a barrel of crude oil has only a minor impact on the overall price of gas, it all goes back to a basic supply and demand schedule for each good. There is too much supply of oil in reserves of major countries like the US, which drove the price of oil down dramatically. Now with gas, it all comes down to refinery capacity to transform crude oil into a usable fuel for cars, and trucks. Once that supply of capacity is used up for the demand of fuel, the price of fuel will fluctuate either up or down, and it creates an excess supply of oil that need to be refined. Hope everyone understands that.
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You honestly believe that in that one simple paragraph you've explained the relationship or as you claim lack of relationship between the price of oil and gasoline?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[FocusGuy7476]

habmann,Mar 4 2009, 08:30 PM Wrote:You honestly believe that in that one simple paragraph you've explained the relationship or as you claim lack of relationship between the price of oil and gasoline?

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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tried to simplify things as much as possible, in 10mins, that I could. Its a very strange relationship that fuel and oil have. feel free to summarize it better if you would like.

[euro_zx5]

All the best to you in whatever you decide to do! I too was shocked to hear about this.

[NOS2Go4Me]

FocusGuy7476,Mar 4 2009, 08:44 PM Wrote:

habmann,Mar 4 2009, 08:30 PM Wrote:You honestly believe that in that one simple paragraph you've explained the relationship or as you claim lack of relationship between the price of oil and gasoline?

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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tried to simplify things as much as possible, in 10mins, that I could. Its a very strange relationship that fuel and oil have. feel free to summarize it better if you would like.
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All I have to say is bunk. Sorry man. If that were true, the base price of a barrel of light sweet crude would have MUCH less weight on the gasoline retail market than it does right now. If that were true, the price of gas would drop as fast as it rises. Obviously, that's very rarely the case.

I use http://www.oil-price.net/ for my historical oil price list and then plot that against the historical (yet anecdotal at bast) cost of gas, both in Toronto and in North Bay (Toronto being the largest retail gas market in Canada, North Bay being an obvious choice). I get my historical gas price data from ontariogasprices.com.

Of course, OntarioGasPrices.com is hardly a statistical or scientific source with checks and balances. However, common trends appear and can be verified against the North Bay prices and their expected mean spread from the Toronto average prices.

The bottom line is that it's an oligopoly. Nothing forces the hand of any other station around a particular station to raise their prices, other than greed.

On one hand, gas station operators historically don't make THAT much on gas sales. They depend on confectionery, car supplies, car washes and other revenue streams to generate a profit. On the other hand, I've heard a lot of bitching over the years from gas station attendants and owners who don't understand why they're the target of car drivers' ire. It's simple - you're the person they're handing the cash to when they buy their gas. You're the one who rolled the cost of a litre of gas up by 10 cents a litre or more as they were pulling in. That's $8 more than they planned on spending on 80 litres of gas! It's no wonder we breathed a sigh of relief as gas fell down to the 70-79 cent range. As it stands, North Bay averages 87.5 cents / L tonight.

Gas pricing is one of the worst, if not THE worst form of opportunism that exists today that is also legal to practice. Hike the cost of a loaf of bread by 50% because of war in the Middle East and I guarantee you people will riot. The government will step in and legislate the cost of bread after conducting a large and expensive audit of the situation.

Why doesn't the government complain about it themselves? They say it's a "free market", plus they get two levels of taxation from the sale of a litre of gas (GST and "gas tax"). So, the higher the cost of gas, the more taxes they rake in on each sale. Besides, do you really think civil servants give a s*** when they have to fill government-leased/owned vehicles? Of course not! They're not paying for it!

Gasoline is extortion. We have no real viable alternatives to bridge short, medium and long-distance transportation seamlessly in this country while affording ourselves even a fraction of the convenience of owning a vehicle of our own.

Here's a hint: the automakers aren't the ones stalling green power rollouts, major fuel economy increases in vehicles (a lot of tech is FINALLY coming online in the next 5 years) or the advent of electric vehicles / hydrogen vehicles.

And... I've officially shat all over Nathan's thread.

Sorry Nathan :(

[CanadaSVT]

Canadian ST,Mar 3 2009, 09:23 PM Wrote:Thanks for the support guys!

Its really fawked up because the mill I work (worked) at has always been one of the worlds most efficiently run steel mills.
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Felt a shiver on the back of my neck when I heard the news. Many friends have worked there over the years. Very bad news.

[2001 ZTS]

US Steel has also idled there Lorain Ohio plant (~600 people). ArcellorMiltal is laying off its Cleveland plant (~1000 people). ArcellorMittal is also the parent of Dofasco in Hamilton the past few years and that location remains open so it goes both ways across the border.

As big as we in North America think these places are Hamilton, Nanticoke and all the entire US rust belt are very minor parts. Production efficiency is one thing but scale is another and then there is the overhead that comes with North American labour. Not saying its a bad thing because the rest of the world should "catch up" but they haven't, probably won't and it is such a huge factor.

Related to the theme of the thread I will be running three less ships than last year, 16 instead of 19, since we carry the iron ore and coal to these places. Good thing is that people still need to eat grain, burn coal for electricity, put salt on roads and make concrete. We thankfully have a pretty diverse customer base so aren't tied to these ups and downs as much as some other companies but even we are calling for a slow year and a 35% drop in movements.