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StreetEdition,Apr 26 2009, 08:50 AM Wrote:

Scorcher000,Apr 23 2009, 01:52 PM Wrote:I mostly use the Orbital to do big flat surfaces that why you would have no swirl marks from the buffer. It does take a little longer but You would have to use a more liquid compound instead of a paste.
I do have a Orbital that cost me about $280 3 years ago and it's a 2 stage motor but I rarely use it. I have about 5 Buffers 2 for Metal, 2 Paint and 1 for other/Back up.
Using the right tools will get the job done quicker but you can use what ever you got to get it done. Just like the term/saying "Get er Done".
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its good to see lively discussion on the subject... im not really convinced that i *need* a porter cable (or makita).. isn't it the product that i am applying that makes the difference?
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Product has a lot to do with it, but so does the type of buffing pad applying the product. That is why I said, 'it must take you 4 days to do a compound'

There is several different levels of agressiveness with proper pads, some are recommened with a 2000 grit polish, some are recommended for Waxing purposes only since they have no 'cutting' power at all.

These $20 buffers come with a white microfiber cloth that goes over the buffer area...you are not getting ANY cutting power out of this and depending on the product only to give you that shine.

IMO - much faster ways to do it, but it requires the right tools. ;)

[Scourge]

Is there any way to get the "good" types of pads for a cheap buffer? I've got one of the simoniz ones but I've always prefered waxing by hand to using it. The terry bonnets never seem to do a good job.

-George

[Flofocus]

I dont think so, even with the porter cable, you have to buy a special peice to velcro the pads onto it. that special peice is specifically made for these 'high end' buffers and wouldn't move to these cheapy ones.

[Scorcher000]

Search up "Buff n Shine" Pads You would want a 6.5" buffer adapter disk and the type of pad is a 12" 100% Wool either double sidded or single sided. Don't waste your money on the self centering pads because you can just stick you finger threw the hole and find the center. ;)

[StreetEdition]

cdn tire has a simoniz 12in random orbital buffer on sale for 29.99 (50% off) .. im definately debating picking it up..

i want to make this summer a project to try and remove the swirl marks on my zx5.. ive got the meguiars swirl remover (#9) which I think would do the trick.

sigh, i dunno.

[Scorcher000]

Sounds like a good deal. Get some Terry cloth bonnets for the majority of the work then pick some Microfibre bonnets up for the finish work on it.

[Flofocus]

post up you're results when you are done, I'll come by and go over it again to show the difference. :P :lol:

[ANTHONYD]

You can't compare a 20 dollar Ken and Barbie polisher to a professional P&C or Makita.

You need RPMs to generate heat, which equals a proper cut.

I think I saw some shine n' go in the bargain bin at the dollar store if anyone is interested.

[ZTWsquared]

ANTHONYD,Apr 28 2009, 11:10 AM Wrote:You can't compare a 20 dollar Ken and Barbie polisher to a professional P&C or Makita.

You need RPMs to generate heat, which equals a proper cut.

I think I saw some shine n' go in the bargain bin at the dollar store if anyone is interested.
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I understand that there are functional, quality and reliability differences between an expensive good brand and a cheap no-name brand buffer.

But assuming the same skilled person uses the same bonnet and the same product, exactly what differences are there that would significantly impact the quality of the results ... you mention RPMs - what is the ideal RPM, and for example how would 3200 RPM on the cheap machine be inferior to 3200 RPM on the expensive one.

BTW - not being argumentative here, but I haven't yet seen a post that offers a quantifiable or qualitative difference in terms of how good a job an expensive machine does vs. the cheap one.

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ZTWsquared,Apr 28 2009, 12:53 PM Wrote:

ANTHONYD,Apr 28 2009, 11:10 AM Wrote:You can't compare a 20 dollar Ken and Barbie polisher to a professional P&C or Makita.

You need RPMs to generate heat, which equals a proper cut.

I think I saw some shine n' go in the bargain bin at the dollar store if anyone is interested.
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I understand that there are functional, quality and reliability differences between an expensive good brand and a cheap no-name brand buffer.

But assuming the same skilled person uses the same bonnet and the same product, exactly what differences are there that would significantly impact the quality of the results ... you mention RPMs - what is the ideal RPM, and for example how would 3200 RPM on the cheap machine be inferior to 3200 RPM on the expensive one.

BTW - not being argumentative here, but I haven't yet seen a post that offers a quantifiable or qualitative difference in terms of how good a job an expensive machine does vs. the cheap one.
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With a skilled person that knows what there doing...You'll get the same results I'm sure of that. It will take you a hell of a lot longer though...

Even with a PT, that FX35 I did took me 13 hours. I wouldnt even try that with a cheapy buffer, it would take me litteraly 4 days to get the same results, screw that, my time is worth more than that.

again - its not all product, its also the cut of the pad, and I dont think (even after searching buff nshine like scorcher said to do) that you can switch the buffing pads on these simoniz buffers. You can switch between terry clotch and microfiber, but like I said, thats just a waste of time.

[Flofocus]

..and Ken, any skilled person will tell you to stay away from these cheap buffers and go with a porper setup once and for all. lol

Any 'pro' would never recommend a cheap buffer over a PT. :rolleyes:

[Scorcher000]

Nice shot....
Ask NefCannuk what I did last night with 1min from my hand to the scratch on the rear quarter panel of his car.

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Scorcher000,Apr 28 2009, 01:30 PM Wrote:Nice shot....
Ask NefCannuk what I did last night with 1min from my hand to the scratch on the rear quarter panel of his car.
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Not trying to take shots, but if you're trying to say that you're 1 min job equals what i do with a buffer....yeah, then i give up. :rolleyes:

[NefCanuck]

Scorcher000,Apr 28 2009, 12:30 PM Wrote:Nice shot....
Ask NefCannuk what I did last night with 1min from my hand to the scratch on the rear quarter panel of his car.
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Again, materials have a lot to do with it ;)

Obviously the stuff I used was crapola, but I'm no expert when it comes to paint finishes (Hell, my 'wax' of choice is Turtle Wax ICE because it's the only stuff I can work with that doesn't leave me high & dry :ph34r:)

I'll be curious to see if you can get rid of those scratches altogther with the right equipment as well (white scratches on black paint = PITA)

NefCanuck

[ANTHONYD]

I should have elaborated on my statement. my bad... :(

I was trying to say that based on the amount of time it would take to do a car using a cheaper alternative, as apposed to a big money machine (that yes has the right cut and RPMs) would be apples to oranges.

I'm sure with enough bonnets, the right amount of product and an endless weekend, you could achieve the same results with a smaller cheaper machine. The question really is.... how valuable is your time?

[StreetEdition]

sooooo, the simoniz buffer lists 2600 OPM.. is that not enough? you guys with the PC buffer talk about 3200 OPM

i was just lurking on the meguairs site reading the forums about swirl marks .. they're pimping ScratchX and I watched a video of it being used by hand... I might just go this route instead

[reldridge]

StreetEdition,Apr 29 2009, 05:06 AM Wrote:sooooo, the simoniz buffer lists 2600 OPM.. is that not enough?  you guys with the PC buffer talk about 3200 OPM

i was just lurking on the meguairs site reading the forums about swirl marks .. they're pimping ScratchX and I watched a video of it being used by hand... I might just go this route instead
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It's not so much the OPM... The OPM rated is with no load. Once you put some friction to it, your OPM drops big time. It's the amperage that makes a difference.

ScratchX will do some work, but your shoulders will be dead! :)

[Flofocus]

Sratch X works really well by hand....even better with a buffer!

I use scratch X by hand for the tough to reach spots like under door handles, under spoilers, etc.

the only reason why i dont like using scratch X is because it s a fawkin pain to remove...

[ZTWsquared]

reldridge,Apr 29 2009, 08:03 AM Wrote:It's not so much the OPM... The OPM rated is with no load. Once you put some friction to it, your OPM drops big time. It's the amperage that makes a difference.

ScratchX will do some work, but your shoulders will be dead! :)
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Okay - now we're getting somewhere - - - - amperage and OPM under load ... what's the amperage of the high-end buffers and what is the ideal OPM under load to get the job done well?

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ZTWsquared,Apr 29 2009, 09:55 AM Wrote:

reldridge,Apr 29 2009, 08:03 AM Wrote:It's not so much the OPM... The OPM rated is with no load. Once you put some friction to it, your OPM drops big time. It's the amperage that makes a difference.

ScratchX will do some work, but your shoulders will be dead! :)
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Okay - now we're getting somewhere [right][snapback]286101[/snapback][/right]

<_<

Experience > this technical crap.

:lol: