[darkpuppet]

It's official..

Quote:
Saturn brand meets its demise when deal with the Penske Automotive Group falls through

There was a death to report yesterday in the automotive industry.  At only 24 years of age, the Saturn brand was officially laid to rest by GM.  The brand was always one of great ups and downs, but in the end a champion to save it failed to emerge.
The Saturn brand was officially formed in 1985 and the first cars rolled off the assembly line in 1990.  The brand projected a U.S. family-friendly image and produced high quality small vehicles to compete with Nissan, Honda, and Toyota imports.  Also popular was Saturn's famous "No Haggle" price policy.

However, the expenses of the vehicles' quality and that policy left the brand relatively unprofitable.  It is unclear if even at its greatest sales year it turned a profit.  As a result, GM didn't give it the product it needed to stay fresh, and it fell behind other brands in the 90s.  At the turn of the millennium GM tried to revitalize the brand, and it seemed to be working.  Customer interest in new models like the Saturn Vue, Ion, and Sky soon rose and the brand looked poised for a comeback.  Then the recession came.

Even its new vigor was not enough to outweigh its weakness in the late 90s and Saturn found itself among the many brands on GM's chopping block, along with Saab, Hummer, Vauxhall, Opel, and Pontiac.  Under government supervision, GM worked out a sale of Saturn to the Penske Automotive Group, founded by racing legend Roger Penske.  The group already owned 310 auto retailers, so it seemed a perfect fit for the brand

The deal was almost complete, but one major aspect remained unanswered -- who would produce the vehicles.  GM agreed to temporarily take on some of the design and engineering responsibilities and transition these task to Penske.  It also agreed to produce Saturn vehicles, but only until 2011.  Penske needed someone to take over production from GM.  Reportedly, Renault Samsung Motors Co., a South Korean subsidy of France's Renault motors which doesn't currently import in the U.S., was among of those considered to take on the task of producing of Saturn-branded vehicles abroad and then shipping them to the U.S.

The Boulogne Billancourt, France-based automaker wrote, "Renault has been in contact with Penske to supply cars, parts and technology to Saturn through an OEM agreement.  The conditions for an agreement have not been found."

At the end of the day, the mystery third-party producer pulled out when its board reportedly rejected the deal to produce Saturn vehicles.  This left Penske without a producer past 2011.  Penske terminated the deal and GM terminated Saturn.

The mood was a dismal one when the brand, beloved by many, was laid to rest.  With it goes 13,000 jobs, largely in Michigan, and 350 dealerships, which have until October 2010 to close.

GM expressed its disappointment with the development, with Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson stating, "This is very disappointing news and comes after months of hard work by hundreds of dedicated employees and Saturn retailers who tried to make the new Saturn a reality."

Some analysts were shocked that GM let the deal collapse, losing the profit of the sale.  Stephen Spivey, an auto analyst with Frost & Sullivan in San Antonio, states, "I’m a little surprised that there was no plan B here.  It’s surprising to me that Penske had no idea that this might not be accepted."

Indeed, the loss could hurt GM's reputation, according to analysts.  GM also lacks a clear plan to salvage Saturn's hybrid technology and other important technologies from the brand.  For Penske it represents an embarrassing mar on the group's traditionally strong track record, which has included such successes as brokering a deal with Daimler as the exclusive import of Smart cars.

Many analysts are simply lamenting what could have been.  Rebecca Linland, an analyst at IHS Global Insight, states, "Saturn is the brand you wanted to like.  It is the little brand that could have and should have [been great]."

[mo_focus]

wow this is sad. Hated saturn until they started bringing European Opel over. Without Opel they are dead to me :)

[NikiterZTS]

mo_focus,Oct 1 2009, 06:44 PM Wrote:wow this is sad. Hated saturn until they started bringing European Opel over. Without Opel they are dead to me :)
[right][snapback]295266[/snapback][/right]

Have you driven that Astra? I just did recently Auto and 5 speed (they went on the crazy sale) and thought it was one of the most underpowered vehicles I have ever driven. It had good handeling and brake feel. Other then that it's poop.

[NefCanuck]

This "deal" to sell the Saturn brand to Penske made zero sense to me when it was announced and I'm not surprised it failed.

Penske on its own had no way to produce the cars, NVM the R&D required to update the lineup. This was a red herring that was dead from the start.

GM can't even properly sell off parts of itself :rolleyes:

NefCanuck

[02_svt_guy]

Another one bites the dust!

[Focus man. Focus.]

Just when their line up started to look interesting.

[Gabriel]

NikiterZTS,Oct 1 2009, 08:06 PM Wrote:

mo_focus,Oct 1 2009, 06:44 PM Wrote:wow this is sad. Hated saturn until they started bringing European Opel over. Without Opel they are dead to me :)
[right][snapback]295266[/snapback][/right]

Have you driven that Astra? I just did recently Auto and 5 speed (they went on the crazy sale) and thought it was one of the most underpowered vehicles I have ever driven. It had good handeling and brake feel. Other then that it's poop.
[right][snapback]295268[/snapback][/right]

NA Saturns were ugly pieces of s*** anyway . Chevrolet under diferent skin and cluster in the middle. Now Astra is another story . The engines that equipped it for North America are 1.8L as far as I know , but mated with automatic just don't work because people here are used to alot of torque . Just not enough muscle .I heard fuel economy is pretty good though . I rented an Opel Astra 1.9 CDTI (diesel 130 HP) in Germany back in 2005 and put on it about 7000 km in three weeks . Now that was a nice car , plenty of torque and very fuel efficient . Even on the autobahn , cruising at 180-200 km/h burned 7.1 l/100km , where as next year a Seat Leon 1.6L gasoline took over 10l /100km . The Astra had 6 speed , in city driving , without pushing , bumper to bumper , 6.5l/100km .
Nik , you shouldn't try an Saturn Astra when your daily driver is a WRX . There's no other way but to be disappointed . I returned to my SVT after driving an STI and it felt like a pony after riding a race horse.

[2DXTRM]

Focus man, Focus.,Oct 2 2009, 11:19 AM Wrote:Just when their line up started to look interesting.


[right][snapback]295303[/snapback][/right]

No kidding. The Pontiac G8, the newer Saturns, and the newer Saabs are all nice looking cars.

Maybe GM will rebadge some of these models under the remaining brands?

[Gabriel]

2DXTRM,Oct 2 2009, 08:47 PM Wrote:

Focus man, Focus.,Oct 2 2009, 11:19 AM Wrote:Just when their line up started to look interesting.


[right][snapback]295303[/snapback][/right]

No kidding. The Pontiac G8, the newer Saturns, and the newer Saabs are all nice looking cars.

Maybe GM will rebadge some of these models under the remaining brands?
[right][snapback]295353[/snapback][/right]

True , the G8 and Saab's are fine cars , but non american designs . I meant that were ugly the Ion , L series , the Vue , etc

[NikiterZTS]

Gabriel,Oct 2 2009, 10:30 AM Wrote:

NikiterZTS,Oct 1 2009, 08:06 PM Wrote:

mo_focus,Oct 1 2009, 06:44 PM Wrote:wow this is sad. Hated saturn until they started bringing European Opel over. Without Opel they are dead to me :)
[right][snapback]295266[/snapback][/right]

Have you driven that Astra? I just did recently Auto and 5 speed (they went on the crazy sale) and thought it was one of the most underpowered vehicles I have ever driven. It had good handeling and brake feel. Other then that it's poop.
[right][snapback]295268[/snapback][/right]

NA Saturns were ugly pieces of s*** anyway . Chevrolet under diferent skin and cluster in the middle. Now Astra is another story . The engines that equipped it for North America are 1.8L as far as I know , but mated with automatic just don't work because people here are used to alot of torque . Just not enough muscle .I heard fuel economy is pretty good though . I rented an Opel Astra 1.9 CDTI (diesel 130 HP) in Germany back in 2005 and put on it about 7000 km in three weeks . Now that was a nice car , plenty of torque and very fuel efficient . Even on the autobahn , cruising at 180-200 km/h burned 7.1 l/100km , where as next year a Seat Leon 1.6L gasoline took over 10l /100km . The Astra had 6 speed , in city driving , without pushing , bumper to bumper , 6.5l/100km .
Nik , you shouldn't try an Saturn Astra when your daily driver is a WRX . There's no other way but to be disappointed . I returned to my SVT after driving an STI and it felt like a pony after riding a race horse.
[right][snapback]295305[/snapback][/right]

I think Astras here have 2L engines IIRC.
It felt slower then my 2002 stock Focus (I still drive Focus often).

Are you planning to come to the dark side? Is that why you were testing the Subi? :)

[Gabriel]

I think Astras here have 2L engines IIRC.
It felt slower then my 2002 stock Focus (I still drive Focus often).

Are you planning to come to the dark side? Is that why you were testing the Subi? :)
[right][snapback]295388[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Unfortunately it's not in the budget . A friend had one and I had the chance to drive it . Clearly much more car than mine but I have to say without modesty that my Focus serves me well and I am very happy with it . Alot of times at the track I ask myself if I could switch cars with someone that has a more performant car but I manage to stay behind him through the turns with mine , what would it happen ?
A clear example is Ken , his car is heavier and has less power but he was faster through the turns fair and square . One thing is , I don't know what suspension setup he's got . So until I get richer , I will have to work on improving Myself .
BTW , are you coming to DDT on the 12th ?

[NikiterZTS]

Unlikely that I will go to the track this month. Looking to buy bigger intercooler + then it needs to go back for a retune. Also having hard time to find rims for my track tires. It seems that I'm done for this season unless magic happenes.

Gabriel,Oct 3 2009, 05:57 PM Wrote:I think Astras here have 2L engines IIRC.
It felt slower then my 2002 stock Focus (I still drive Focus often).

Are you planning to come to the dark side? Is that why you were testing the Subi? :)
[right][snapback]295388[/snapback][/right]

Unfortunately it's not in the budget . A friend had one and I had the chance to drive it . Clearly much more car than mine but I have to say without modesty that my Focus serves me well and I am very happy with it . Alot of times at the track I ask myself if I could switch cars with someone that has a more performant car but I manage to stay behind him through the turns with mine , what would it happen ?
A clear example is Ken , his car is heavier and has less power but he was faster through the turns fair and square . One thing is , I don't know what suspension setup he's got . So until I get richer , I will have to work on improving Myself .
BTW , are you coming to DDT on the 12th ?
[right][snapback]295395[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[Gabriel]

How much power do you hope to squeeze out of it ?

[NikiterZTS]

Gabriel,Oct 4 2009, 09:57 AM Wrote:How much power do you hope to squeeze out of it ?
[right][snapback]295426[/snapback][/right]

maybe 225whp on the mustang dyno

stock '08 STi did 198whp on that same dyno.

[Gabriel]

NikiterZTS,Oct 4 2009, 04:29 PM Wrote:

Gabriel,Oct 4 2009, 09:57 AM Wrote:How much power do you hope to squeeze out of it ?
[right][snapback]295426[/snapback][/right]

maybe 225whp on the mustang dyno

stock '08 STi did 198whp on that same dyno.
[right][snapback]295433[/snapback][/right]

Wow , that's going to be one quick car ! Is the STI losing so much power from the crank to the wheels , 100 HP ? So you'll add over 100 HP on top of your factory output ? If my info is correct a WRX has 227 HP at the crank

[NikiterZTS]

Gabriel,Oct 4 2009, 04:56 PM Wrote:

NikiterZTS,Oct 4 2009, 04:29 PM Wrote:

Gabriel,Oct 4 2009, 09:57 AM Wrote:How much power do you hope to squeeze out of it ?
[right][snapback]295426[/snapback][/right]

maybe 225whp on the mustang dyno

stock '08 STi did 198whp on that same dyno.
[right][snapback]295433[/snapback][/right]

Wow , that's going to be one quick car ! Is the STI losing so much power from the crank to the wheels , 100 HP ? So you'll add over 100 HP on top of your factory output ? If my info is correct a WRX has 227 HP at the crank
[right][snapback]295441[/snapback][/right]

2.5L wrx's do 230bhp.
227bhp are 2.0L ones.

On Regular dyno a stock STi does somewhere 230- 245whp to all 4. You add turbo back + slight tune and your over 300whp/330wtq

[Gabriel]

NikiterZTS,Oct 4 2009, 06:17 PM Wrote:

Gabriel,Oct 4 2009, 04:56 PM Wrote:

NikiterZTS,Oct 4 2009, 04:29 PM Wrote:

Gabriel,Oct 4 2009, 09:57 AM Wrote:How much power do you hope to squeeze out of it ?
[right][snapback]295426[/snapback][/right]

maybe 225whp on the mustang dyno

stock '08 STi did 198whp on that same dyno.
[right][snapback]295433[/snapback][/right]

Wow , that's going to be one quick car ! Is the STI losing so much power from the crank to the wheels , 100 HP ? So you'll add over 100 HP on top of your factory output ? If my info is correct a WRX has 227 HP at the crank
[right][snapback]295441[/snapback][/right]

2.5L wrx's do 230bhp.
227bhp are 2.0L ones.

On Regular dyno a stock STi does somewhere 230- 245whp to all 4. You add turbo back + slight tune and your over 300whp/330wtq
[right][snapback]295442[/snapback][/right]

Holy s*** !!! That's alot of ponies . What can i say , great stuff , but still not in the budget :(
In what year did they change from 2.0 to 2.5 L ?

[NikiterZTS]

STi's started to have 2.5L in 2004 (USDM)
WRX's started to have 2.5L in 2006. They produce much bigger amount of torque.