[Flofocus]

Hey guys - I'm going to get started on finishing my last major reno on the house. And that is to put a 3rd washroom in the basement.

The floor is going to be slate tile, a section of it is going to be heated (30 sq/ft)

What i was wondering is if I should be putting some sort of sub flooring down ontop of the concrete before appling my heated mats, thinset, mud and tile...

From what I've read, some say to put subflooring to ensure the floor is level, and others say you can level out anything with the thinset/mud anyways.

What have you guys done in the pass?

[NefCanuck]

I know someone who installs the heated mats for a living and his choice is always install the subfloor to even things out if the customer is willing to pay for it.

His reasoning is that although you can "even things out" with the thinset / mud, that means that any shifting of the materials due to shrinkage / warping and you're tearing things up all over again to fix it.

NefCanuck

[Flofocus]

Thats good to know...

Now, do I install the subfloor where my shower is going? or keep the shower base as bare concrete?

[ANTHONYD]

PM Meford.

Oh... right. Don't.

[meford4u]

I am renoing my own basement bathroom right now and I have to disagree with Nef's guy about laying a leveling subfloor. The floor in a basement is set to slope toward a drain for a purpose. Flooding. I would not and will not put down a leveling compound on a cement floor in a basement. If you want to use the ditra/Kerdi system on you floor to help with shifting of the slab and possible cracking of the tile in the future, that I would recommend. In terms of what to do in the shower, your wasting time and money leveling the shower base. I don't know if your buying a kit to install or installing a tile based shower, but a Kerdi system is self explanitory and a worthwhile investment. You can buy the kits in different sizes and they come with a DVD to show you how to install the kit.

[hardk0re]

I myself would just put the tile directly onto the cement floor. As for the shower should you decide to use a subfloor like meford said theres no point in it. If your doing an old school shower your going to need to slope the bed anyway. If your doing new school (Schluter Kerdi) then you do infact need a somewhat level surface but the kit itself takes care of all this as the base is set into cement so you level at this point.

I myself like to mix the kerdi + old school way (make my own mud base) becuse it cuts about 400 off the cost of the shower, but adds complexity and margin of error.

[mo_focus]

I wish i had heated floors in the basement. So freaking cold in there! What ever you do, get the heated elements installed!

Meford: how much would it cost me to install heated floor in the basement? its about 350 sf. Consists of bathroom and kitchen area.

[Tiketz]

What is your budget? Thats what should be answered first.....I hope you are just heating the washroom with the electrical wire and not the whole basement with that because that can get very expensive.....My suggestion is if you ever put tiles down in your basement or basement washroom you shoud put a subfloor down... this is especially good for the winter months.....

Next, make sure the walls are all insulated with a vapour barrier.... its a clear plastic with drywall on top of course.....For the shower, if your building it and doing the tiling yourself you need a shower liner sometimes called (membrain or Aqua proof) put this down with the sides folded up not more than 1' foot or 12" inches high....What this does is drains any water to the drain if water ever gets under the tiles or drywall and trust me it will grout cracks fast.

When installing fiber glass showers, silicon and wood shims are your best friend, remember your standing on the base so make sure there are wood shims underneath, you don't want movement. Make sure everything is clean and dry before adding mildew resistant silicon. Don't forget the exhaust fan and if you don't mind spending a bit of money, put a rain shower head in the center of the ceiling or a water proof light (your choice). I would also suggest putting a shower bar as well. You going with a pedistal sink or vanity?....

Ok enough free info for everybody just hire me to do the work lol!

[hardk0re]

Tiketz,Jan 18 2010, 10:09 PM Wrote:For the shower, if your building it and doing the tiling yourself you need a shower liner sometimes called (membrain or Aqua proof) put this down with the sides folded up not more than 1' foot or 12" inches high....What this does is drains any water to the drain if water ever gets under the tiles or drywall and trust me it will grout cracks fast.[right][snapback]299787[/snapback][/right]

You forgot a PRESLOPE under the membrain if you do it with a membrain!

Nate, I don't want to take you away from this site, but for ANYTHING tile related including the right way to build a shower old school or new school ways visit these guys.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/foru...ay.php?f=1

[drunkinmonkey]

pick up mike holmes book...nufff said

[meford4u]

mo_focus,Jan 18 2010, 06:23 PM Wrote:I wish i had heated floors in the basement. So freaking cold in there! What ever you do, get the heated elements installed!

Meford: how much would it cost me to install heated floor in the basement? its about 350 sf. Consists of bathroom and kitchen area.
[right][snapback]299781[/snapback][/right]

You'll have to ask someone who has the time to do it.

I am swamped sorry.

[j3rt]

mo_focus,Jan 18 2010, 07:23 PM Wrote:I wish i had heated floors in the basement. So freaking cold in there! What ever you do, get the heated elements installed!

Meford: how much would it cost me to install heated floor in the basement? its about 350 sf. Consists of bathroom and kitchen area.
[right][snapback]299781[/snapback][/right]

Mo, my buddies basement was always cold, he put down the 2x2 tile subfloor (chipboard with eggcrate underside). Reinstalled carpet and underpad. It's made a huge difference. He's only done the rec room and main hall, might be worth checking out.

[meford4u]

j3rt,Jan 19 2010, 07:46 AM Wrote:

mo_focus,Jan 18 2010, 07:23 PM Wrote:I wish i had heated floors in the basement. So freaking cold in there! What ever you do, get the heated elements installed!

Meford: how much would it cost me to install heated floor in the basement? its about 350 sf. Consists of bathroom and kitchen area.
[right][snapback]299781[/snapback][/right]

Mo, my buddies basement was always cold, he put down the 2x2 tile subfloor (chipboard with eggcrate underside). Reinstalled carpet and underpad. It's made a huge difference. He's only done the rec room and main hall, might be worth checking out.
[right][snapback]299795[/snapback][/right]

I really have to disagree with doing this. First off, Mo is looking at a tile floor and you can't lay tile over this subfloor. But the main reason i disagree with doing this is the subfloor is sold to be a waterproof system in the case of a small flood. If you were to get less than an inch of water into your basement, that's all fine and dandy. But what do you think happens to the water that doesn't go into a drain once the issue is resolved? Mold? Yep. I've seen it. And it's nasty. A cold floor in a basement is the result of the slab cooling from poor insulation in the walls and your vapour barrier not being sealed(accoustical sealant) floor and ceiling. I have personally had spray foam thoughout the basement in my home and I keep only 2 vents open during the winter(out of the 8 installed) as it actually gets too warm in the basement. Just my opinion.

[ZTWsquared]

meford4u,Jan 19 2010, 02:47 PM Wrote:  A cold floor in a basement is the result of the slab cooling from poor insulation in the walls and your vapour barrier not being sealed(accoustical sealant) floor and ceiling.  I have personally had spray foam thoughout the basement in my home and I keep only 2 vents open during the winter(out of the 8 installed) as it actually gets too warm in the basement.  Just my opinion.
[right][snapback]299809[/snapback][/right]

Builders are famous for not doing a good job with basement vapour barrier and sealing the rim joist ... Bryan ... a couple of questions if I may ...

Is your spray foam rim to slab or just half way like the builders do the bats

Did you frame first

Did you do it yourself?

[meford4u]

ZTWsquared,Jan 19 2010, 04:03 PM Wrote:

meford4u,Jan 19 2010, 02:47 PM Wrote:  A cold floor in a basement is the result of the slab cooling from poor insulation in the walls and your vapour barrier not being sealed(accoustical sealant) floor and ceiling.  I have personally had spray foam thoughout the basement in my home and I keep only 2 vents open during the winter(out of the 8 installed) as it actually gets too warm in the basement.  Just my opinion.
[right][snapback]299809[/snapback][/right]

Builders are famous for not doing a good job with basement vapour barrier and sealing the rim joist ... Bryan ... a couple of questions if I may ...

Is your spray foam rim to slab or just half way like the builders do the bats

Did you frame first

Did you do it yourself?
[right][snapback]299821[/snapback][/right]

The builder did the spray foam for 80% of the basement as per the writtne contract I included and had them insulate floor to ceiling and all rim joists.

You frame the walls first leaving a minimum of 1/2" spacing from the wall for a continuous vapour barrier.

I did not spray the walls myself. I have a local contractor fot that. There is a government rebate program in effect that allows rebates for all types of insulation. It cost me out of pocket $1300 for the 20% of the basement that I had to finish with spray foam and I get back $1800 from the government. Crazy but true. I also installed a tankless water heater and that cost me $200 and an extra $10/month for the rental but I have had it in for 9 months now and I save more than the extra cost of the water heater rental. Oh, and I get $800 from the government for that too. There are other incentives beyond insulation(like windows/doors/furnace/A/C units). If you guys want more information, I'll post the link.

If you do anything in a basement, spray foam it. It makes it so comfortable and livable in a space that is often cold and damp.

[ZX3_2NV]

Yaa Post up the link we did some reno's and want to see if there good for a rebate.

[meford4u]

ZX3_2NV,Jan 20 2010, 09:17 AM Wrote:Yaa Post up the link we did some reno's and want to see if there good for a rebate.
[right][snapback]299853[/snapback][/right]

You have to have the audit done before you do any reno's. What you need to do is take off all existing insulation(such as the R12 batting that builders put in basements) to get full credit. They will give you some of the credit if there is existing insulation. In an attic, in new homes, the insulation is R40 and if you upgrade to R55 to get credits.
I do realize if you've done the work and completely finished the space your not going to be ripping stuff down. If your space can be upgraded for insulation(an unfinished basement) then this is the way to go. You have 18 months from the time of your audit to complete all work.
http://www.homeperformance.com/ontario-reb...-energy-rebates