[FocusGuy7476]

so looks like GM is going down. 30,000 job cuts overall and 3,900 in ontario.

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/Article...l_motors_051121

[2001 ZTS]

"This highlights again the very serious and ongoing crisis that we have in the automotive industry in North America," Hargrove warned.

Do you think he means building cars I have absolutely no interest in?

Other than the Saturn Sky, maybe some Saabs and possibly the Vibe I can't think of any other GM vehicles that I am even remotely interested in despite all the makes and models offered by the GM family.

[Frost__2001]

I agree totally with 2001ZTS, GM has been behind in the design curve for last the 25 years or so, not to mention when they bring out a totally newly styled car or even a face lift for any part of their company ( cept Saab ) it looks dated, or it's been done by everyone else like 5 years earlier.

Really it's no wonder why Ford and GM are in the same boat more or less, but it's only a matter of time before Ford will more then likely be doing the same thing.

[meford4u]

Some of the supervisors have already been told.

[CanadaSVT]

My bud's wife works at one of the Oshawa plants. She has only been there 3 years, so it looks like she will be losing her job. It's really pathetic as she is even working Saturdays to spit these GM's out. Another person making over $70K out of the work force. Another person that won't be purchasing anything from anyone here for quite some time to come. The trickle down affect is devastating once all these people lose their jobs. Thanks GM!

[NOS2Go4Me]

The funny thing is.. I don't see them merging or streamlining upper management, or re-tooling the design team. Hell no, that would make sense.

Our cars aren't selling, so let's fire the lot that make them! That will fix it!

"Quick, the shareholders are getting antsy and we're anticipating a stock slide... do something."

* NOS2Go4Me fires 30,000 people.

"Will that rectify our sliding revenues and fix our ailing product line?"

"No, but it helps our profit and sales earnings forecasts stay true to earlier estimates."

"Oh ok, but what about the workers that lost their jobs?"

"Who?"

[NefCanuck]

Y'know watching this, I really have come to the conclusion that GM is simply re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic here.

Nowhere do I see them with any sort of long term planning on how to fix this mess, it's all about "cut the jobs and let the chips fall where they may" which might please the shareholders temporarily, but does nothing to foster employee loyalty/pride in their work.

Cutting only gets you so far and then when there's nothing left to cut what do you do?

Frankly I think GM would have been better served by biting the bullet, consolidating more divisions (Bye Bye Buick?, Good bye GMC?) and buying out some dealers. Sure the dealers are independantly owned and operated but frankly its a case of too much of a good thing, too many dealers dilute the sales and while some may say "lots of dealers means lots of choice" I say bull 'cause I sure didn't stick with GM when the time came to replace the old heap.

NefCanuck

[FocusGuy7476]

its only a short term solution to the problem. GM's short term solution of laying off 30,000 workers will put a long term strain on the economy and job market. i don't know what the job market is like in ontario but now you have 3,900 people that are in need of jobs. if the market was crowded before just wait. the major problem has to be somewhere in the management of GM, they are a company that is concerned with shareholders and not the stakeholders in the company.

[Kool_ZX3]

Most of these cuts will come from attrition,early retirement etc.. Alot of the younger people might actually stay. Have to wait and see. It's sad to see but things like this have to happen to stay competitive when the buying public is blinded by import "quality" :rolleyes:

[2001 ZTS]

Quote:I Rather Push A Ford Then Drive A Chevy

So let me get this straight. Once finished pushing the Ford you follow that action by driving away in a Chevrolet? All this time I thought you were a Ford Fan Boy?

[Kool_ZX3]

Ford guys don't like chevy, you must know that. We have been at war for years, you know bowtie boys, blue oval breathe etc.... Chevy guys hate ford guys. In the end though i'd drive a chevy over any honda,toyota etc...

[P-51]

Interestingly, GM is also moving to eliminate "The Jobs Bank". That's the part where what's his name brags about getting paid 95% of his salary to not work. That will go away. It's a rediculous arrangement, and completely uncompetitive and unmatched by anything in any other industry.

GM can't afford it, and the case is simple: You let this go, or we go bankrupt, and nobody gets nothing.

Period.

So this time in the sun is soon going to be over. And all these lazy bums with no usefull skills will be on the street.

"What work experience do you have?"
"I put a bolt in a hole, then I get a power tool and tighten it. Sometimes I even put the right bolt in the right hole and tighten it the right amount."

[meford4u]

P-51,Nov 26 2005, 08: Wrote:Interestingly, GM is also moving to eliminate "The Jobs Bank".  That's the part where what's his name brags about getting paid 95% of his salary to not work.  That will go away.  It's a rediculous arrangement, and completely uncompetitive and unmatched by anything in any other industry.

GM can't afford it, and the case is simple:  You let this go, or we go bankrupt, and nobody gets nothing.

Period.

So this time in the sun is soon going to be over.  And all these lazy bums with no usefull skills will be on the street.

"What work experience do you have?"
"I put a bolt in a hole, then I get a power tool and tighten it.  Sometimes I even put the right bolt in the right hole and tighten it the right amount."
[right][snapback]157770[/snapback][/right]

Is this the system where they call in to work XXX number of guys, only to sit around in Labour Relations until there is a need for them on the floor. If there is no need for them by lunch, they are sent home with pay???
Just asking because Ford wants to implement this idea.
Who wants a pt job with ft hours doing SFA?

[euro_zx5]

meford4u,Nov 26 2005, 04:17 PM Wrote:

P-51,Nov 26 2005, 08: Wrote:Interestingly, GM is also moving to eliminate "The Jobs Bank".  That's the part where what's his name brags about getting paid 95% of his salary to not work.  That will go away.  It's a rediculous arrangement, and completely uncompetitive and unmatched by anything in any other industry.

GM can't afford it, and the case is simple:  You let this go, or we go bankrupt, and nobody gets nothing.

Period.

So this time in the sun is soon going to be over.  And all these lazy bums with no usefull skills will be on the street.

"What work experience do you have?"
"I put a bolt in a hole, then I get a power tool and tighten it.  Sometimes I even put the right bolt in the right hole and tighten it the right amount."
[right][snapback]157770[/snapback][/right]

Is this the system where they call in to work XXX number of guys, only to sit around in Labour Relations until there is a need for them on the floor. If there is no need for them by lunch, they are sent home with pay???
Just asking because Ford wants to implement this idea.
Who wants a pt job with ft hours doing SFA?
[right][snapback]157797[/snapback][/right]

Well the need for those sitting ducks won't (or shouldn't) end... my dad was (retired now) a pipefitter there and sat around waiting until a job came up. Some days were super busy, others were moderate. I don't think this type of work will ever end. But the need for people on the line (bolt tighteners, etc) might end if companies shell out the dough to have machines replace all of them (highly unlikely anytime soon... slowly but surely though).

[meford4u]

euro_zx5,Nov 26 2005, 09:16 PM Wrote:

meford4u,Nov 26 2005, 04:17 PM Wrote:

P-51,Nov 26 2005, 08: Wrote:Interestingly, GM is also moving to eliminate "The Jobs Bank".  That's the part where what's his name brags about getting paid 95% of his salary to not work.  That will go away.  It's a rediculous arrangement, and completely uncompetitive and unmatched by anything in any other industry.

GM can't afford it, and the case is simple:  You let this go, or we go bankrupt, and nobody gets nothing.

Period.

So this time in the sun is soon going to be over.  And all these lazy bums with no usefull skills will be on the street.

"What work experience do you have?"
"I put a bolt in a hole, then I get a power tool and tighten it.  Sometimes I even put the right bolt in the right hole and tighten it the right amount."
[right][snapback]157770[/snapback][/right]

Is this the system where they call in to work XXX number of guys, only to sit around in Labour Relations until there is a need for them on the floor. If there is no need for them by lunch, they are sent home with pay???
Just asking because Ford wants to implement this idea.
Who wants a pt job with ft hours doing SFA?
[right][snapback]157797[/snapback][/right]

Well the need for those sitting ducks won't (or shouldn't) end... my dad was (retired now) a pipefitter there and sat around waiting until a job came up. Some days were super busy, others were moderate. I don't think this type of work will ever end. But the need for people on the line (bolt tighteners, etc) might end if companies shell out the dough to have machines replace all of them (highly unlikely anytime soon... slowly but surely though).
[right][snapback]157838[/snapback][/right]

Your dad wasn't involved like this. I know what the trades do at Ford and this is not a trades job.
Jobs on the line are actually increasing as we are moving away from machinery and back to man made production. I am seeing it in the move to the new paint shop. We now have robotics that paint inside the doors, but in the new shop, it will all be done by hand as the robotics are costly, expensive to fix ( arm alone $250k, and we brake atleast 2 a week) and have to be maintained constantly. They are adding 4 jobs for painting alone. Unfortunately they are eliminating elsewhere (that's what they think)

[P-51]

No, the jobs bank is what was negotiated by the unions in the 80's, where basically the Big 3 *could not* lay anybody off. If they eliminate a position in a plant, due to efficiencies or whatnot, you'd go into this "jobs bank" where they were technically looking for another job within the company for you.

You'd sit there, waiting the phone to ring, collecting 95% of your pay.

The same thing happens when your plant gets shut down temporarily, because the vehicles aren't selling well. Plant shuts down, they stop making cars, but everybody still gets paid 95% of their salary.

Basically, the workers are *guaranteed* a job. And this is the only industry where this happens.

So think about it. Wonder why GM and Ford give away cars? Because, if they're not selling well, they can't just shut down the plant temporarily or permanently. Because they still have to pay the workers! They still have to pay property taxes, they still have to pay to heat the place, etc...

So if they can sell a car for more than the cost of the PARTS in it, they might as well do that, because they'll be paying anyway. They'll lose less money by giving the cars away for half price, than if they just close the plant.

This is another one of the damned rediculous benefits that were negotiated by the unions, that have crippled the big 3. It's just unsupportable.

[meford4u]

Um, that is changing. And we don't get paid 95% of our wages to sit at home with a layoff. We receive UI benefits just like everyone else and at this point in time a top up to 80% of our wages. In January, that is changing to 65% of our wages.
I don't know where you get your info. from, but it is wrong. The only plant in the Ford system to receive the extra 15% top up was Oakville, and that was negotiated with the last contract only because of the plant closure at the truck plant.
Are you discussing the American plan?

[P-51]

meford4u,Nov 27 2005, 08:39 PM Wrote:Um, that is changing.  And we don't get paid 95% of our wages to sit at home with a layoff.  We receive UI benefits just like everyone else and at this point in time a top up to 80% of our wages.  In January, that is changing to 65% of our wages.
I don't know where you get your info. from, but it is wrong.  The only plant in the Ford system to receive the extra 15% top up was Oakville, and that was negotiated with the last contract only because of the plant closure at the truck plant.
Are you discussing the American plan?
[right][snapback]157888[/snapback][/right]

Yes, I'm referring to the UAW plan. I wasn't aware the CAW plan was different.

Regardless, any company "topping up" of UIC benefits is rediculous. And as you can see, it will be ending.

I'm actually happy to hear that the CAW has conceeded this, as it's a step in the right direction that they might survive.

[meford4u]

P-51,Nov 28 2005, 03: Wrote:

meford4u,Nov 27 2005, 08:39 PM Wrote:Um, that is changing.  And we don't get paid 95% of our wages to sit at home with a layoff.  We receive UI benefits just like everyone else and at this point in time a top up to 80% of our wages.  In January, that is changing to 65% of our wages.
I don't know where you get your info. from, but it is wrong.  The only plant in the Ford system to receive the extra 15% top up was Oakville, and that was negotiated with the last contract only because of the plant closure at the truck plant.
Are you discussing the American plan?
[right][snapback]157888[/snapback][/right]

Yes, I'm referring to the UAW plan. I wasn't aware the CAW plan was different.

Regardless, any company "topping up" of UIC benefits is rediculous. And as you can see, it will be ending.

I'm actually happy to hear that the CAW has conceeded this, as it's a step in the right direction that they might survive.
[right][snapback]158096[/snapback][/right]

It's not that they conceded this, we never had it. It was negotiated for Ford Oakville with the closing of the truck plant and the move to 3 shifts at the van plant. I think the dangling of some $$$$$ by the government had something to do with it.

[DD1]

I would buy teh new Z06 if the kids were out of the house