[Frost__2001]

Taking a swipe at Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, Prime Minister Paul Martin said Ottawa has an active role to play in developing lucrative new markets outside of the U.S. for Alberta's oil.

Full storie here:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[greenmachine00]

f#ck that! i work hard in the oil industry and don't believe that handouts to whiners should be "right". albertans deserve it because we all sacrifice for the profit in some way or another. directly or indirectly.

[nass]

greenmachine00,Jan 30 2006, 10:01 AM Wrote:f#ck that! i work hard in the oil industry and don't believe that handouts to whiners should be "right". albertans deserve it because we all sacrifice for the profit in some way or another. directly or indirectly.
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can you explain why you say that? That's the second time you put yourself above others because you work for an oil company. I'm not trying to bust your balls here I just want to know why you feel that you are better and more important than others cause of your job.

[Flofocus]

As much as I love Alberta (I really do, my fav province by far) I have to agree with nass here. What makes you think that because your in the oil industry in Canada, the country shouldnt benefit from it?

[silvermist]

I'll tell you why........when ottawa does anything for themselves the rest of the country is sposed to take it. Quebec and Ottawa live under the empression of canada needs them but what they forget 90% percent of canada's resorces are in the western part of the country. hell they have the balls to say that the surplus of money that alberta has should be used to help toronto's debit. but if they had a surplus all they would do is give themselves raises. Don't get me started on the egos of the most of quebec. They want to leave canada but use canadain money and canadian passports and basicly keep doing what they are doing and that is WHINING AND SPONGING OFF OF THE REST OF CANADA. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all of quebecers are like this but the politisions sure the f*** are.

[nass]

got dictionary?

[meford4u]

What ya'll seem to be forgetting, and I am using the Albertan dictionary, is that Natural Resources are not sustainable in the economy.

Alberta is doing well because the price of oil is up and it makes it profitable to pull oil out of the tar fields.

In Ontario, we produce things in factories as the main source of our economy. If we are not producing, then you are not selling.

And we all take one big crapper

Hope that simplifies economics enough for ya'll Mr. Red Neck.

[darkpuppet]

silvermist,Jan 31 2006, 07:51 PM Wrote:I'll tell you why........when ottawa does anything for themselves the rest of the country is sposed to take it.  Quebec and Ottawa live under the empression of canada needs them but what they forget 90% percent of canada's resorces are in the western part of the country.  hell they have the balls to say that the surplus of money that alberta has should be used to help toronto's debit. but if they had a surplus all they would do is give themselves raises. Don't get me started on the egos of the most of quebec. They want to leave canada but use canadain money and canadian passports and basicly keep doing what they are doing and that is WHINING AND SPONGING OFF OF THE REST OF CANADA. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all of quebecers are like this but the politisions sure the f*** are.
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An interesting tidbit..

Code:

Equalization Entitlements – (2005-06)
($ millions)
PEI    NB   NL     NS    MB      QC    BC   SK  Total
277  1,348  861  1,344  1,601  4,798  590  82  10,900


($ per capita)
1,996  1,793  1,668  1,432  1,359  632  139  83  -

It appears the only 2 provinces are actually making money above the equalization median..



The fact is that Ontario is the only province to the east that makes a lot of money, and Alberta is the only province to the west that makes a helluva a lot of money... And yet both provinces think that they don't have any responsibility to the rest of the country.

*ahem* we all live in the same country!!!!

And if Harper keeps his promises, Alberta may end up once again receiving equalization payments as the oil wouldn't count towards the equalization equation.... In that case, you'll probably end up getting money from Ontario, BC and Saskatchewan, while living in the most profitable province!!! Who's thinking only for themselves?

But that's just speculation at the moment, but damn, if it does happen...

If you can post an actual link that demonstrates that Ontario gets money from Alberta, I might agree with you, but like your province, we're currently helping to payfor every other province out there.

and quebec... oh, quebec... if I went by the numbers alone, I'd say the rest of canada was paying for the privelege of your company. And you want to separate?

yeesh...

[NOS2Go4Me]

I agree with Steve completely.

Harper doesn't want to run Canada, he wants to suck Canada dry to feed Alberta. It's no mistake that Alberta voted completely "blue" in the last election.

The difference I'm seeing here is thus: Ontarians really don't mind footing the bill for the remainder of the country because we're Canadians first and foremost. Alberta threatens to leave, and while we're laughing (the US still doesn't want your beef!) we're secretly crying (the US STILL wants your oil/gas!). Alberta is currently acting like a spoiled Quebec.

What should be prevalent here is that we're ONE COUNTRY, and we ought to be behaving that way. A "distinict society" means you carry yourselves as responsible, evolved human beings and you don't extort funds from the government to support your own methods of racial inequality and segregation.

We're losing enough to "equality" and "racial diversity" in this country as it is, we don't need to subsidize entire provinces because we have an assmonkey at the helm named Harper.

It's not enough he called all of Canada a Eurpoean welfare state, now he wants to turn Alberta into the coddled members of said state he hates so much. What a guy.

[02ztsian]

I work for a major Canadian retailer in a logistical capacity, shipping product to Western Canada. The company's sales are as flat as Saskatchewan prarie, but the disbursements our facitilty processes (pieces shipped) are up over 2005 YTD. I see the difference a prosporous ecomony in the West makes on a national scale; we are boosting the lagging eastern sales.
Here in Alberta, we elected a government (Ralph and Co.) that promised to eliminate defict spending, cutting services and programs while we turned this province around. People whined and complained (mostly public service and government employees) but we elected him to cut spending and he did exactly what he said he would do. Now, the financial tables have turned, and we are putting money back into these programs, paid off out debt and are putting a little back into the hands of those who suffered during the lean times. I'm not here to brag, but we are running a fiscally responsible province. The reason people here get upset about other provinces wanting us to share our wealth is we worked hard and sacrificed much to get into the position we are in. Look at the above chart to see how much we contribute to the equalization formula.
Here's a suggestion to anyone out there who may be interested: move to Alberta. We are desperately short of workers, and not just burger flippers. Warehouse and dock workers have their pick of companies to work for. Short and long haul truckers, house framers, tradesmen, oil patch workers, hell even 7-Eleven pays 9.50 for night shift. Just driving around town you see sign after sign Now Hiring. Grocery stores offering to relocate employees and starting pay of 30K. You get the idea. We call it the Alberta Advantage; if you want to come out and join us you are more than welcome. Just bring your work boots!

[NOS2Go4Me]

02ztsian,Feb 1 2006, 10:36 AM Wrote:Look at the above chart to see how much we contribute to the equalization formula.
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You've balanced the budget, and that's good. But... and I really want to know, why does a single province get to decide that they're no longer part of the country and not part of "the solution"?

Ontario isn't balanced, but it's still the economic center of Canada. Nuff said. The TSX is here... Ontario is the accepted, and literal, figurehead of the country. Good, bad or otherwise we're expected to lead the way fiscally and politically. And we do.

Alberta hasn't always been balanced, but unless I'm horribly mistaken Alberta is now about to start receiving payments it no longer needs / requires. Is that true? Why does a province with a balanced budget need equalization payments? Because their one true source of income as a province is magically exempt?

What if the feds and Ontario decided that equalization payments were outdated and subsequently they were cancelled? What if we were proactive enough to correct THIS imbalance:

http://www.strongontario.ca/english/

What then?

But we won't. We're federalists and Canadians, and strongly so. We'd rather ensure the country stays in one piece while our investment opportunties are missed, crumbling infrastructure and health care institutions are stalled during development and repairs (North Bay is a shining example of the latter) while we ensure that there is a steady flow of cash to the entire country.

I'm not necessarily attacking you as I am engaging the idea that Alberta is great because it balanced provincially and now decides that its income is somehow "exempt" according to the guy they as Albertans elected.

Wanna know something even more scary? Harper was born and raised in Toronto. He then moved to the west during / after university. You guys can keep the shmuck.

[TonyDee]

Is it , need or greed?

[Flofocus]

02ztsian,Feb 1 2006, 11:36 AM Wrote:We call it the Alberta Advantage; if you want to come out and join us you are more than welcome. Just bring your work boots!
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I've been in talks with my boss to see if I can get an exec position with Bell West. Were liked a lot more out there, Telus is the Bell here in Ontario, everybody hates us. :D :lol:

[02ztsian]

I love Alberta, but firstly I am Canadian. No interest in seperating from Canada, unlike the seperatists in Quebec. Not a shot at Quebec, only those who openly push for the breakup of confederation.
As far as transfer payments, well I really won't see it on my paycheque so I don't think much about it. I leave that to the politicians. All I know is I earn what I work for and thats good enough for me. I have always cheered for the Leafs, since the days of Palmateer and Turnbull and Ballard (whatever happened to Potvin?). And, I would have done the same thing that bike courier did. That guy was a complete a$$ and only confronted her because she was a she. A big man would have beat him down if he tried that crap on him. Peace all.

[darkpuppet]

Please don't think I'm bashing Alberta.

I'm just bashing the thought that Ontario is greedy and wants everything for itself over any other province.. it's just not the case..

sure every province wants something for itself, and I think Alberta should be able to keep a good portion of the money they have ... they'll need it in the future, so spend it wisely now! So in that respect I don't really need Ottawa to steel Alberta's money.. I'll get mine as a booming economy will reflect across the nation. But also, as a prosperous province, don't play off like you're the poor that keeps getting robbed.

That's the eastern provinces god given right, because the money literally never makes it past quebec.

[NOS2Go4Me]

darkpuppet,Feb 1 2006, 02:48 PM Wrote:That's the eastern provinces god given right, because the money literally never makes it past quebec.
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Queue the ominous music and blatant denials from everywhere between Ottawa and the NB border. Also, you just attacked their "distinct society"... prepare for some visiting friends from the FLQ.

[greenmachine00]

Ok! here it is for the one final time! it has nothing to do with the actual people of eastern canada!it has to do with the liberals and conservatives. when the liberals were in power western canada was never a priority to them. Ralph, along with the conservative ideal, pretty much said fu prime minister, well take care of ourselves. so we did. we made ourselves debt free, and loaded to the brim. if the "canadian government" the last few years actually gave a damn about the west things would most likely be different. but liberal power is criminal and and we don't want to put up with the bullsh#t from the east. liberals suck balls and that what it comes down to. if you guys cared( this only concerns you if you are liberal) about alberta or the west when we we not as prosperous, other then seeing green when we do prosper. you'd have something better over there. so you know what... who really are the greedy ones? not us. we rolling in dough. all albertans are great, and equal. so just stop your whining and grow up. blame your nearest representative and do something about your own situation so that if we get them again in october, which we may, us albertan don't have to hear all the crying.

[meford4u]

And you think it's any different in Ontario?

We all want the Federal government to take care of us, but that's why we now have equalization payments.

So I'll ask again, what gives you and your high and mighty province the right to lay claim to a natural resource? Shouldn't we all benefit from something that has speculative ownership?

[ZTWsquared]

meford4u,Feb 5 2006, 08:14 AM Wrote:Shouldn't we all benefit from something that has speculative ownership?
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I think if you look at things on balance ... we do. In the same way that the whole country benefits when BC sells lumber or the mines of Ontario export their product. And whether that resource be above the ground, below the ground, preening its fur in the forest, or walking the streets, the fruit of its exploitation should be treated the same.

Yes, the province of Alberta is getting a windfall in taxes and other economic activity associated with the high cost of gas and oil; but that's not to say that the federal government isn't experiencing its own little windfall -- it is.

IMO telling Alberta that it has to share that windfall is the same as New Brunswick telling Ontario that it has to share the wealth generated from the export of cars and auto parts.

The fact is we already do ... federal taxes and equalization payments take care of that, and it's the same IMO for Alberta.

The surest way for you to get a piece of the action Meford is to move just a bit further west. :D

[meford4u]

it was more of an "explain your point" than a gripe of mine about sharing resources.

i don't expect the feds to hand me money/nor take it away