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Police Testing (yet Again)
#41
Self-reliance, promotion by merit, etc. etc. etc. are all great things, and would be the the ideal solution in an ideal world.

It's not an ideal world. Take DP's example. "Flipping the bird" is exactly what the company did to its employees, ESPECIALLY when you consider that an agreement was made when these retirees were workers. Who enforces these agreements? The government? Please, they can's run themselves let alone someone else's business. Most of the government legislation; health and safety guidelines, vacation time, worker compensation, etc. that the general public enjoy now were a result of union action. Remember that government is on the side that has the money -- that isn't the worker.

I've worked in both union and non-union shops. I mean shops as in technical, labour-intensive work and not of the pencil-pushing variety. Non-union shops where they treated the workers like peons, poorly lit, unsafe and promotion/pay increases weren't based on merit but but how well you gargled the bosses' beans. If you're a peon running a boring mill, turret lathe, etc. and you do it well, the last thing a boss wants to do is promote you off that job; you're of most use there. Usually the time you get promoted from that is when you threaten to leave, which is in essence a 1-man strike.

I understand the downsides of the union, the slackers, and yes it's a problem; but there are slackers in every profession. Even today; I have a friend/neighbour across the street that works for Toyota in Cambridge. The system of favoritism vs. unionism is just as corrupt, just in a different form. He's not ecstatic to go to work every day (well technically, he's off work hurt, on worker's comp (meaning government (your) money) with severely reduced wages.

I understand the public frustration when they hear threats of union action to what is deemed an "essential service". But (for example, take Chad), don't even police deserve a safe workplace (at lease as safe as possible)? Or when an agreement is made as to wages/pension/benefits that their employer doesn't honour? It's always easy to sat that "it's not fair" or "they get paid too much" when you're not the one actually doing the work.

Sometimes I think people take too much for granted when it comes to civil servants. The general public usually don't realize how much these "essential services" are worth until they're withheld, or scaled back.
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#42
Actually, I've got relatives that are OPP, Toronto cops, and old friends that used to be East York Fire. Not sure if the latter stuck around years ago.

The cops don't have a "safe workplace". They're cops. They never WILL have a safe workplace so long as criminals walk the streets.

As for the guys off work... half of my freaking CPA (Computer Programmer / Analyst) class in 2000 was guys that were PAID to be there by the gov't on retraining because they had injured themselves and were "entitled" to go back and make a similar wage. Less than half of that entire class graduated. Same thing when I transferred over to Computer Systems Technician / Networking after a year of CPA. Some guys were my age and under (23), the rest were anywhere from 28-52! Out of 68-75 students in 2 classes we graduated in the 30s. Now those of us that ARE working are paying for all those tards that didn't graduate / find a job.

I STILL see one guy from my CSTN course at the mall almost every month... he tries the same old trick again and again - tries to hand me a resume, and then when I ask him how his job search is going... "I've done a bit lately, don't feel like moving, not sure I want to be tied down anywhere"...

I've seen it on both sides of the fence, although TBH I've never been employed and part of a union. I'm sure that "back in the day" they were important and helpful to the common person, regardless of their field of work or creed.

I just simply refuse to believe that unions in their current context are a "Good Thing" ™. I really do.

My cousin is actually the Manager of IT for the City of North Bay. He's a pretty cool guy, and while he's not unionized (or perhaps he still is), most of his hands-on staff are. They seem to do their job for the most part, but the lack of enthusiasm is obvious.

Our IT department, on the other hand, is rather vibrant. We're trained, largely respected and not taken for granted, and we enjoy coming to work each day. I actually look forward to work more now than when I started, and I was the typical office newb when I started.

I guess I'm just trying to say that unions are an antiquated dinosaur that a few good people still believe they need (and don't) and the rest just ride along on their coattails (and shouldn't). :)
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#43
OAC_Sparky,Feb 16 2006, 12:13 AM Wrote:I understand the downsides of the union, the slackers, and yes it's a problem; but there are slackers in every profession. Even today; I have a friend/neighbour across the street that works for Toyota in Cambridge. The system of favoritism vs. unionism is just as corrupt, just in a different form. He's not ecstatic to go to work every day (well technically, he's off work hurt, on worker's comp (meaning government (your) money) with severely reduced wages.
[right][snapback]170743[/snapback][/right]

just a little something on worker's comp, no one but the employers pays for WCB. and the government had nothing to do with it.

as for unions, they are only good to keep management in check. and if you have good management you don't need a union. if you have a union that not doing their job, you can have them removed.
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#44
Chad I watched the video... ya... similar to here... wouldnt be a problem but again im trained for this type of stuff.

When the weather gets better Ill post a video of typical training.. I think Parkour guys would make pretty damn good run and chase cops...
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#45
tdot-zx3,Feb 17 2006, 12: Wrote:Chad I watched the video... ya... similar to here... wouldnt be a problem but again im trained for this type of stuff.

When the weather gets better Ill post a video of typical training.. I think Parkour guys would make pretty damn good run and chase cops...
[right][snapback]170975[/snapback][/right]

Yeah in all honestly I'm not 'worried' at all as I've passed it twice, the first time being a week after my dad passed away so you can imagine the shape I was in then, plus I was at least 40 pounds heavier and had NO training at all. I've been in a workout routine for the past year, a routine that I would say is very intense.

I think I'm nervous because I got alot riding on the test, I mean this could determine my future career.... that's what is getting me.....

Yeah definitely looking forward to another training video from you guys. I seen the one a while back... very cool.....
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#46
OAC_Sparky,Feb 15 2006, 01:15 PM Wrote:But you see, this is where you have it backwards.

Rather than looking at the situation from "well, I don't have it, why should they?" look at it as "too bad I don't have a unified voice bargaining on my behalf to keep companies from reaping profit at the expense and sufferring of their employees (or worse yet, their retirees)". A union would have fought to keep the company from raping their retirees.

Or is IBM unprofitable?

I don't blindly agree with everything that unions do, but I'll take one over not having one.

On topic, good luck with the test.
[right][snapback]170654[/snapback][/right]

They are in the business of making money....with all the baby boomers coming up for retirement, it is actually a smart move. Chances are good that in five-10 years time, they'll re-introduce it.

Unfortunately, it's the whole marketplace, and union shops are the only ones who keep their benefits.

But can someone show me a major company that is a union shop that makes money without government funding?

I think that cops deserve better pay and pensions than garbage men and janitors.. I don't know how anyone can argue against that. I think a union has a right to negotiate their terms of employment, but I don't believe in the culture of clandestine entitlement.

I work hard, I get paid VERY well, and I have options to move if I need to.
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#47
Hear hear!

Well said, well said.
Daily driver 1: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport "S"

33" BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s, lots of Rough Country gear - bumper, 2.5" lift, swaybar disconnects, Superwinch 10,000lb winch, Detroit Locker in rear D44 axle, custom exhaust, K+N filtercharger, Superchips-tuned.

Daily driver 2: 2006 Subaru Legacy GT

COBB Stage 1+ package - AccessPort tuner, COBB intake and airbox. Stage 2 coming shortly - COBB 3" AT stainless DP and race cat, custom 3" Magnaflow-based exhaust and Stage 2 COBB tune.
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