[habmann]

OAC_Sparky,Mar 23 2006, 04:39 PM Wrote:

scoobasteve,Mar 23 2006, 04:31 PM Wrote:A parting gift for Nos...
[right][snapback]176621[/snapback][/right]

Oh! The debauchery!! :o
[right][snapback]176622[/snapback][/right]

Maybe Nos is boycotting FC.net because of our support of gay and lesbian marriages.

[scoobasteve]

haha. i really just wanted to push the thread over 100 replies..


Mission complete....

[Frost__2001]

ANTHONYD,Mar 23 2006, 10:24 AM Wrote:I guess Nos took a hike....again?

>_>
[right][snapback]176557[/snapback][/right]

Well I can't say I neither approve or disapprove Nos' Opinions, but it's his right to do so, and we all should respect that regardless, However I do respect him for speaking his mind. :)

I really hope he ( Nos ) might have learned something as well as everyone did from my post with History 101 and what not, but really it takes time for people read all the facts, and make a clear judgement good or bad, it's their right to do so, as we are a free country and value our consituitonal rights.

EDIT: if it really bugs people to think about gays in general, the best thing I tell them is it's Natural Population Control, as well when it comes to gay families it's good for the Kids that need a family often get adopted to good people that want them, when the parents didn't. it really helps change ones opinion rather quickly.

[Flofocus]

Frost__2001,Mar 23 2006, 06:19 PM Wrote:I really hope he ( Nos ) might have learned something...[right][snapback]176628[/snapback][/right]

He didnt learn s***. Trust me. :rolleyes:

[Oscar The Grouch]

Where have I heard this kind of talk before.... Oh yeah the movie Dogma

Quote from the movie:

Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the s*** that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, but especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.

Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?

Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.

Basically yeah I kinda agree with that statement.

HOWEVER...I do kinda agree with NOS. For those of us who do have faith, most believe that their faith is more important than the political agenda.

Remember when you die, politics mean f*** all.

To be honest, I will put my faith ahead of the political agenda of this country.

I have nothing against homosexuals. I believe they should have all of the same civil liberties and advantages ATM as normal heterosexuals and rightly deserve so as human beings.

If you think I'm an ignorant f***tard cause of this, put me on your ignore list.

[OAC_Sparky]

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 23 2006, 09:17 PM Wrote:I have nothing against homosexuals.  I believe they should have all of the same civil liberties and advantages ATM as normal heterosexuals and rightly deserve so as human beings.
[right][snapback]176672[/snapback][/right]

In the end, I think that's all we're saying.

I'm not a religious person, but if homosexuality is "wrong" in God's eyes, then that person will have to face whatever consequences they must if and when the time comes.

But I suppose that many of us will have our own things to answer for if there is indeed a higher power.

[meford4u]

OAC_Sparky,Mar 23 2006, 09:38 PM Wrote:if there is indeed a higher power.
[right][snapback]176677[/snapback][/right]

if? I am your higher power. Well, I am atleast taller than you. :lol:

[OAC_Sparky]

meford4u,Mar 23 2006, 10:15 PM Wrote:I am your higher power.  Well, I am atleast taller than you. :lol:
[right][snapback]176683[/snapback][/right]

Hell, half the world is taller than me.

But if there is a God I'd like to thank Him for levelling the playing field by endowing me with other errrr......ummm.....remarkable attributes.

:lol:

[meford4u]

OAC_Sparky,Mar 23 2006, 10:25 PM Wrote:

meford4u,Mar 23 2006, 10:15 PM Wrote:I am your higher power.  Well, I am atleast taller than you. :lol:
[right][snapback]176683[/snapback][/right]

Hell, half the world is taller than me.

But if there is a God I'd like to thank Him for levelling the playing field by endowing me with other errrr......ummm.....remarkable attributes.

:lol:
[right][snapback]176685[/snapback][/right]

we'll let frost deal with that issue kthnxbye

[OAC_Sparky]

meford4u,Mar 23 2006, 10:35 PM Wrote:we'll let frost deal with that issue kthnxbye
[right][snapback]176690[/snapback][/right]

Why would Frost be interested in my keen intellect?

OHHHH You thought I meant THAT!! :o

I see you were talking to my wife. :lol:

[ANTHONYD]

Has this thread run it's course fellas?

[darkpuppet]

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 23 2006, 09:17 PM Wrote:Basically yeah I kinda agree with that statement.

HOWEVER...I do kinda agree with NOS.  For those of us who do have faith, most believe that their faith is more important than the political agenda. 

Remember when you die, politics mean f*** all.

To be honest, I will put my faith ahead of the political agenda of this country.

I have nothing against homosexuals.  I believe they should have all of the same civil liberties and advantages ATM as normal heterosexuals and rightly deserve so as human beings.

If you think I'm an ignorant f***tard cause of this, put me on your ignore list.
[right][snapback]176672[/snapback][/right]

I have faith as well, but the fact remains that faith isn't always right. .. especially when it comes to homosexuality.

The church is againts it, why? It's not like homosexuality was written about in the bible. Homosexuality wasn't even a word until the 19th century, and it was introduced as a concept by the Germans. So how the hell did it get into the new testament as some churches like to teach it? Jesus never talked about it, there weren't even any words in the Hebrew language that could describe it.

So homosexuality didn't come from the bible. It was explicitly added by religious figures as interpreted from the bible to fit within their own beliefs. Man put prejudice against homosexuality into religion, not God, not Jesus, regular people like my mom, myself, Nos, and Anthony.

Regular also makes laws, it's really no different than religion. Religion sets a set of rules to live by to get into heavenve a better life... Laws are rules made to govern society. And like law, not all religious dogma is altruistic because it was made by man with their own biases, beliefs, and interests.

So while people made gay rights a religious matter, it probably shouldn't even be there... Christian religions should be teaching the life of Christ, and his undying love for everyone equally.

The religious prejudice against homosexuality is really hypocritical IMO, and like a lot of things that bother me about religion, it centers around 'selective' respect and love of your fellow man.

[Oscar The Grouch]

darkpuppet,Mar 24 2006, 09:50 AM Wrote:

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 23 2006, 09:17 PM Wrote:Basically yeah I kinda agree with that statement.

HOWEVER...I do kinda agree with NOS.  For those of us who do have faith, most believe that their faith is more important than the political agenda. 

Remember when you die, politics mean f*** all.

To be honest, I will put my faith ahead of the political agenda of this country.

I have nothing against homosexuals.  I believe they should have all of the same civil liberties and advantages ATM as normal heterosexuals and rightly deserve so as human beings.

If you think I'm an ignorant f***tard cause of this, put me on your ignore list.
[right][snapback]176672[/snapback][/right]

I have faith as well, but the fact remains that faith isn't always right. .. especially when it comes to homosexuality.

The church is againts it, why? It's not like homosexuality was written about in the bible. Homosexuality wasn't even a word until the 19th century, and it was introduced as a concept by the Germans. So how the hell did it get into the new testament as some churches like to teach it? Jesus never talked about it, there weren't even any words in the Hebrew language that could describe it.

So homosexuality didn't come from the bible. It was explicitly added by religious figures as interpreted from the bible to fit within their own beliefs. Man put prejudice against homosexuality into religion, not God, not Jesus, regular people like my mom, myself, Nos, and Anthony.

Regular also makes laws, it's really no different than religion. Religion sets a set of rules to live by to get into heavenve a better life... Laws are rules made to govern society. And like law, not all religious dogma is altruistic because it was made by man with their own biases, beliefs, and interests.

So while people made gay rights a religious matter, it probably shouldn't even be there... Christian religions should be teaching the life of Christ, and his undying love for everyone equally.

The religious prejudice against homosexuality is really hypocritical IMO, and like a lot of things that bother me about religion, it centers around 'selective' respect and love of your fellow man.
[right][snapback]176715[/snapback][/right]

I'm not contesting homosexuality. Live and let live.

But isn't it in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman?

[ANTHONYD]

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 24 2006, 10:44 AM Wrote:

darkpuppet,Mar 24 2006, 09:50 AM Wrote:

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 23 2006, 09:17 PM Wrote:Basically yeah I kinda agree with that statement.

HOWEVER...I do kinda agree with NOS.  For those of us who do have faith, most believe that their faith is more important than the political agenda. 

Remember when you die, politics mean f*** all.

To be honest, I will put my faith ahead of the political agenda of this country.

I have nothing against homosexuals.  I believe they should have all of the same civil liberties and advantages ATM as normal heterosexuals and rightly deserve so as human beings.

If you think I'm an ignorant f***tard cause of this, put me on your ignore list.
[right][snapback]176672[/snapback][/right]

I have faith as well, but the fact remains that faith isn't always right. .. especially when it comes to homosexuality.

The church is againts it, why? It's not like homosexuality was written about in the bible. Homosexuality wasn't even a word until the 19th century, and it was introduced as a concept by the Germans. So how the hell did it get into the new testament as some churches like to teach it? Jesus never talked about it, there weren't even any words in the Hebrew language that could describe it.

So homosexuality didn't come from the bible. It was explicitly added by religious figures as interpreted from the bible to fit within their own beliefs. Man put prejudice against homosexuality into religion, not God, not Jesus, regular people like my mom, myself, Nos, and Anthony.

Regular also makes laws, it's really no different than religion. Religion sets a set of rules to live by to get into heavenve a better life... Laws are rules made to govern society. And like law, not all religious dogma is altruistic because it was made by man with their own biases, beliefs, and interests.

So while people made gay rights a religious matter, it probably shouldn't even be there... Christian religions should be teaching the life of Christ, and his undying love for everyone equally.

The religious prejudice against homosexuality is really hypocritical IMO, and like a lot of things that bother me about religion, it centers around 'selective' respect and love of your fellow man.
[right][snapback]176715[/snapback][/right]

I'm not contesting homosexuality. Live and let live.

But isn't it in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman?
[right][snapback]176720[/snapback][/right]

Why should we follow the bible? Because someone tells us too?

[Oscar The Grouch]

ANTHONYD,Mar 24 2006, 10:49 AM Wrote:Why should we follow the bible? Because someone tells us too?
[right][snapback]176722[/snapback][/right]

Its just an opinion. Doesn't mean you have to follow it. Same vice versa.

Like I said before, my faith comes before my country. When I die, politics won't save my ass from going to hell.

That's why I won't support homosexual marriage. If you can't respect that, then ban me.

[darkpuppet]

The bible says that marriage is a life-long commitment with absolutely no provisions for divorce.

The bible also has verse against sodomites, and other immoral behaviour, and that's where the interpretation opens up against gay marriages. But to accept that, you have to accept that homosexuality is an immoral behaviour, and not a genetic predisposition.

And on the other hand, the bible preaches acceptance of those with abnormal sexual qualities such as atypical genitalia. That judgement of people of atypical sexual types is akin to idolatry and a sin.

The thing is that the church didn't understand homosexuality back then, yet refuse to change now. Whereas, they've given provisions to allow for divorces and annulments so you can get out of that life-long binding contract of marriage.

in order of how the christian church's belief of marriage evolved:
- marriage is between man and woman
- marriage is a life long contract
- people of atypical sexuality shall not be judged against.
- marriage is for creating children, to not do so is a sin.
- (200 years later) - we'll start regulating and officiating marriages
- marriage is ok without children
- divorce is allowed--hell, we'll pretend te marriage didn't even exist in the eys of God

and in the eye of all the research that illustrates that homosexuality is not an immoral behaviour, but a genetic predisposition of 10% of any animal population, why does the church still judge against homosexuality and deny them the right to share a recognized loving relationship with each other?

granted, I don't care if a church makes up it's own rules that disallow gay marriages... I don't think it's right, but it's their perrogative, and my choice not to accept that teaching.

However, there is no excuse to prohibit it by law because the johnny-come-lately thinks it harms society despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[darkpuppet]

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 24 2006, 09:58 AM Wrote:Its just an opinion.  Doesn't mean you have to follow it.  Same vice versa.

Like I said before, my faith comes before my country.  When I die, politics won't save my ass from going to hell.

That's why I won't support homosexual marriage.  If you can't respect that, then ban me.
[right][snapback]176723[/snapback][/right]

faith doesn't replace personal choice and judgement. When you hit the gates of heaven, and St. Peter asks you what the hell you were thinking when you did something, you can't just say, "because the church told me so".

By denying gay marriage, you're accepting the doctrine that homosexuality is an immoral behaviour, and that those people are not deserving of a life-long loving relationship.

And if you accept that, then you are passing judgement of your fellow man, and in the eys of god, according to Jesus' teachings, that's idolatry.

I don't argue that there's a merit to not supporting something that is against one's moral beliefs, but in light of all the evidence that a homosexual relationship is not immoral, why deny them the right to marriage?

And why should it be law, when the churches had no say for the majority of history?

P.S. I'm not going to ban you because of your beliefs. But consider the following:
your argument comes down to a couple lines in a book over 2 centuries old and a blind acceptance to the centuries old understanding.
The arguments made against your view take an almagamation of history, current scientific understanding and a willing to listen to all arguments.

can you, or anyone provide evidence that being a homosexual is immoral?

[darkpuppet]

p.s. another personal gripe..

respect is brought up, and i've tried to be very understanding through all of this, but being called 'special ed' and basically talked to in a condescending manner in response to my arguments and beliefs deserves no respect.

[Oscar The Grouch]

darkpuppet,Mar 24 2006, 11:19 AM Wrote:- marriage is for creating children, to not do so is a sin.

[right][snapback]176725[/snapback][/right]

Arg. Again, puppet I HAVE NO PROBLEM AGAINST GAY PEOPLE, no immoral issues or noghting.

However, if you're gay, you can't have children naturally. Therefore indirectly, gay marriage produces a sin.

[darkpuppet]

Oscar The Grouch,Mar 24 2006, 10:50 AM Wrote:

darkpuppet,Mar 24 2006, 11:19 AM Wrote:- marriage is for creating children, to not do so is a sin.

[right][snapback]176725[/snapback][/right]

Arg. Again, puppet I HAVE NO PROBLEM AGAINST GAY PEOPLE, no immoral issues or noghting.

However, if you're gay, you can't have children naturally. Therefore indirectly, gay marriage produces a sin.
[right][snapback]176734[/snapback][/right]

it's an old doctrine that the church doesn't really follow any longer, it was something that brought up an old teaching from Constantine and/or some other historical figure. It's to illustrate the point that the church changes.

They accept childrenless marriages (something enstated that didn't exist in original bible text)
They accept divorces/annulments (something written in the bible, but good enough to work around in the church's eye)

now connect that with the homosexual activity not being accepted because it was thought to be immoral. But we know better now, yet the church refuses to acknowledge that.. yet divorces and breaking the lifelong commitment is immoral, yet acceptable.

I'm trying to illustrate the hypocracy in the churche's policies regarding homosexuals, as an illustration that there's no reason they shouldn't be able to adapt their policies, much less affect non-secular law.

in fact, the only reason it's not accepted is because it is considered immoral, and that is the one biggest argument the AFA makes. You cannot accept the church's teachings banning homosexual marriage as immoral if you don't accept the fact that homosexuality is immoral.