Hi, Guest
05-27-2006, 07:27 AM
*deep breath*
i hate to say it guys but having driven a few or a lot of cars with different suspensions on the street is not an accurate way to suggest one product over another.
I'd wager dollars to doughnuts that the cars you guys have driven or ridden in where not pushed anywhere close to the limits so suggesting one kit over another for "performance" is not a reliable suggestion. If you want to comment on a strictly "comfort/sporty" feel, go right ahead. :)
I'm not saying the SHM kit is or is not a nice kit, however when we had it on our Yellow ZX3 Pre and post V6 swap, the car really did not perform as well as you make it sound at the limit.
oh and for the skidpad/slolom/autoX, i'd put an H&R cup kit and H&R rear bar over pretty much any other "of the shelf" setup.
as for having to dial in suspension, that really is a comment based on bad word of mouth info.
suspension setup is not hard or some magical "black art" at the level you can buy parts at for the focus.
Coilovers are pretty easy to setup, adjust the ride height to about where you want it, get it corner weighted and you are finished. that's it, no other major adjustments need to be made. no major adjustments need to be made for the addition of other parts either; sway bars, extra camber, strut bars.
if you are getting into dampening adjustable coilovers and do not track the car seriously then you are very simply wasting your money and time. you will not be able to dial said coilovers in unless you are a very skilled and consistant driver who undertands how a little extra dampening in the back will alter the car's handling over say, more rear sway and a little extra camber.
personally for light track use and AutoX i suggest sport kits as the most important part about being fast is knowing the car and learning it's handling. sport kits do not allow any adjustments and thus make you focus on your driving without having the itch to try different settings. SEAT TIME makes you a better driver, not parts.
when it all comes down to it, TIRES are the single most important part of a suspension which is why i shake my head when i see some of you guys suggest crap like those Nexxan or BFG KDW tires as a "performance" tire. i hate to say it but a lot of you guys pass off hearsay as fact on other people, many of you have not even tried the things you suggest. there is a big difference between a "perfomance tire" and a "low profile"... most of you guys run "low profile tires." :)
simple fact, more rear bar = a more neutral handling FWD car.
this IS what you want if you are even remotely concerned with performance.
Yes, it can make the car difficult to drive at the limit which is good as it will make you a beter driver once you get it.
but then again, if you are being an asshat and driving at the limit on public roads, then maybe swaping ends into a gaurdrail might be what you need to bring you back to reality not to do such stupid things. Seriously, i mean that! do not drive like an ass on public roads!
I have driven most of the available suspensions for the Focus on the street and a lot of those same setups at the AutoX or on closed test circuits.
are there better Setups than what i have suggested? of course but for the average person in the average car you will have a hard time finding a better setup than either H&R cupkits with a H&R 24mm rear bar; both for performance handling as well as a nice smooth and comfortable ride.
i have tried 8 different suspension setups on my Silver car: H&R big drop cup kit, H&R coilovers, Eibach Pro System, Eibach Sportline system, Gossow Sport kit, FK coilovers, Intrax springs on stock shocks and the Vogtland(sp) sport kit.
the H&R cup kit was by far the nicest ride with extremely solid handling but the drop was too much for my euro bumpers.. :P
the H&R coilovers were nice but i found them to be underdampened at the limit and there was to much compliance due to softer spring rates designed for the street more than the track.
i HATED the Sportline system with a passion, i have never come across such a badly setup "matched Setup" ever. sprinsg were too soft, dampners too hard, just a bad option unless you can find a really good deal on them and are looking for that exact drop, i'd still pay for the bigdrop H&R cupkit over getting a sportline system for free!
Prokit was decent but at the limit it was not anything to rave about.
intrax sprinsg on stock shocks, this was the first setup on the car, actually came with the car and wasn't bad intill it whiped out thed shocks. needless to say, Springs on stock shocks/struts is never a good choice for "performance" driving. :)
FK coilovers, decent for the money, comparable to the H&R coilovers but more compliance at the limit and the spring rates were not balanced propperly front to rear to make them a contender at the AutoX or Track in my opinion.
Vogtland(sp) sport kit, nice it for the money, decent ride, decent in turns, defiantely not a kit designed to be drive at or near the limit in any way. good option for a street cruiser if on a budget.
and finally the Gossow Sport kit, one of 3 in exsistance in NA which replaced the Intrax kit and which always seems to make it back onto my car.
this is the hardest, most perfomance oriented sport kit i have come across to date, and one of the reasons why it always makes it back on to my car after each suspension i have tested. not the smoothest kit by any means but that was not the selling point to this kit. Designed originally as a Track-based sport kit, it has near perfectly matches springs rates front and rear and the dampening is also matched perfectly to each srping rate respectively.
this sport kit with an Eibach rear bar, Kumho V700 tires, Quaife LSD and 4.06 final drive lead me to the 2nd in FSP and 3rd in rookie standings. very neutral with off-throttle overstear available upon command which was clean and controlable becasue of the springs rates and dampening and the LSD allowed power to be apllied to drag the car back online without fail. same setup pulled .98g combind both ways around a 100ft skidpad and would pull 1.05g on track.
i have tested with more than a few different setups, front bars are a WASTE of money unless: A.) you like it when a car plows through corners at or near the limit. B.) have HUGE rear bar and track the car seriously. C.) enjoy talking about driving your car more than actually driving said car! D.) bragging online about how you have front and rear sway bars! ;) :P
Running the Eibach front and rear bars added almost 2 seconds or more to my times while AutoXing and 3-5 seconds to my average lap times over just the rear bar on the same setup.
take it for what it's worth...
i hate to say it guys but having driven a few or a lot of cars with different suspensions on the street is not an accurate way to suggest one product over another.
I'd wager dollars to doughnuts that the cars you guys have driven or ridden in where not pushed anywhere close to the limits so suggesting one kit over another for "performance" is not a reliable suggestion. If you want to comment on a strictly "comfort/sporty" feel, go right ahead. :)
I'm not saying the SHM kit is or is not a nice kit, however when we had it on our Yellow ZX3 Pre and post V6 swap, the car really did not perform as well as you make it sound at the limit.
oh and for the skidpad/slolom/autoX, i'd put an H&R cup kit and H&R rear bar over pretty much any other "of the shelf" setup.
as for having to dial in suspension, that really is a comment based on bad word of mouth info.
suspension setup is not hard or some magical "black art" at the level you can buy parts at for the focus.
Coilovers are pretty easy to setup, adjust the ride height to about where you want it, get it corner weighted and you are finished. that's it, no other major adjustments need to be made. no major adjustments need to be made for the addition of other parts either; sway bars, extra camber, strut bars.
if you are getting into dampening adjustable coilovers and do not track the car seriously then you are very simply wasting your money and time. you will not be able to dial said coilovers in unless you are a very skilled and consistant driver who undertands how a little extra dampening in the back will alter the car's handling over say, more rear sway and a little extra camber.
personally for light track use and AutoX i suggest sport kits as the most important part about being fast is knowing the car and learning it's handling. sport kits do not allow any adjustments and thus make you focus on your driving without having the itch to try different settings. SEAT TIME makes you a better driver, not parts.
when it all comes down to it, TIRES are the single most important part of a suspension which is why i shake my head when i see some of you guys suggest crap like those Nexxan or BFG KDW tires as a "performance" tire. i hate to say it but a lot of you guys pass off hearsay as fact on other people, many of you have not even tried the things you suggest. there is a big difference between a "perfomance tire" and a "low profile"... most of you guys run "low profile tires." :)
simple fact, more rear bar = a more neutral handling FWD car.
this IS what you want if you are even remotely concerned with performance.
Yes, it can make the car difficult to drive at the limit which is good as it will make you a beter driver once you get it.
but then again, if you are being an asshat and driving at the limit on public roads, then maybe swaping ends into a gaurdrail might be what you need to bring you back to reality not to do such stupid things. Seriously, i mean that! do not drive like an ass on public roads!
I have driven most of the available suspensions for the Focus on the street and a lot of those same setups at the AutoX or on closed test circuits.
are there better Setups than what i have suggested? of course but for the average person in the average car you will have a hard time finding a better setup than either H&R cupkits with a H&R 24mm rear bar; both for performance handling as well as a nice smooth and comfortable ride.
i have tried 8 different suspension setups on my Silver car: H&R big drop cup kit, H&R coilovers, Eibach Pro System, Eibach Sportline system, Gossow Sport kit, FK coilovers, Intrax springs on stock shocks and the Vogtland(sp) sport kit.
the H&R cup kit was by far the nicest ride with extremely solid handling but the drop was too much for my euro bumpers.. :P
the H&R coilovers were nice but i found them to be underdampened at the limit and there was to much compliance due to softer spring rates designed for the street more than the track.
i HATED the Sportline system with a passion, i have never come across such a badly setup "matched Setup" ever. sprinsg were too soft, dampners too hard, just a bad option unless you can find a really good deal on them and are looking for that exact drop, i'd still pay for the bigdrop H&R cupkit over getting a sportline system for free!
Prokit was decent but at the limit it was not anything to rave about.
intrax sprinsg on stock shocks, this was the first setup on the car, actually came with the car and wasn't bad intill it whiped out thed shocks. needless to say, Springs on stock shocks/struts is never a good choice for "performance" driving. :)
FK coilovers, decent for the money, comparable to the H&R coilovers but more compliance at the limit and the spring rates were not balanced propperly front to rear to make them a contender at the AutoX or Track in my opinion.
Vogtland(sp) sport kit, nice it for the money, decent ride, decent in turns, defiantely not a kit designed to be drive at or near the limit in any way. good option for a street cruiser if on a budget.
and finally the Gossow Sport kit, one of 3 in exsistance in NA which replaced the Intrax kit and which always seems to make it back onto my car.
this is the hardest, most perfomance oriented sport kit i have come across to date, and one of the reasons why it always makes it back on to my car after each suspension i have tested. not the smoothest kit by any means but that was not the selling point to this kit. Designed originally as a Track-based sport kit, it has near perfectly matches springs rates front and rear and the dampening is also matched perfectly to each srping rate respectively.
this sport kit with an Eibach rear bar, Kumho V700 tires, Quaife LSD and 4.06 final drive lead me to the 2nd in FSP and 3rd in rookie standings. very neutral with off-throttle overstear available upon command which was clean and controlable becasue of the springs rates and dampening and the LSD allowed power to be apllied to drag the car back online without fail. same setup pulled .98g combind both ways around a 100ft skidpad and would pull 1.05g on track.
i have tested with more than a few different setups, front bars are a WASTE of money unless: A.) you like it when a car plows through corners at or near the limit. B.) have HUGE rear bar and track the car seriously. C.) enjoy talking about driving your car more than actually driving said car! D.) bragging online about how you have front and rear sway bars! ;) :P
Running the Eibach front and rear bars added almost 2 seconds or more to my times while AutoXing and 3-5 seconds to my average lap times over just the rear bar on the same setup.
take it for what it's worth...