Hi, Guest
I'm still stupified.
I'll try to keep this short. But it's long... but you'll want to read it, it's amazing.
I bought a WRX because when I worked at Dana, they had a car allowance, but I had to have a car worth at least $22kUS. Now that I don't work there anymore and I have to make the payments myself, I just find it's not worth it for a daily driver. It's just too much.
So I want out, and I really like a ZX5 with the GFX package. I like the way they drive, and they're cheap. So, I'm shopping around, but of course I'm upsidedown on my loan, which complicates things. I owe $26.5k (CDN), but WRX's with my milage sell for around $23ish. Still, it could work out, if I could get $22k for the trade, I'd save another $3300 in taxes on the new car, so not bad.
I went to one dealer, Summit Ford in Toronto, they had the car I was looking for, so we tried to work out a deal. They took the details on my car and were going to shop it around for a buyer. He calls me back two days later, and says he can give me $22k for it. So, I go in the next day. I take a test drive, it's all going fine, but when we go to crunch the numbers, he tells me the sales manager thought my car had leather, and didn't know about some minor damage. Even though the salesguy had seen it and wrote it down on an official form. He appologizes, but can only offer $20,500 now.
Now, Ford Canada has Employee Pricing for Everyone going on right now. So the prices are fixed. I know exactly what the car costs, and what the payments should be at the 3.9% they are doing with the EPE.
I said, we'll talk more about the trade value, let's look at the numbers for now. He does the back and forth between the sales manager with a piece of paper thing. Comes back with $630/month. "Um... my WRX payments are $729, there's something wrong here." I look at the numbers, and they taxed me on the value of the trade, instead of subtracting that from the tax on the new car like they should. Then he comes back with $550/month. Still too high, I said I thought it should be $440. I didn't realize, among other things they had added freight, when it's already included in the EPE price, and they still taxed me on the new car.
At that point, I walked out, this is dumb. It only really hit me later, there's no way that their sales manager would make basic accounting errors, I think they were intentionally trying to screw me.
So, I start shopping around, calling around, seeing if anybody will give me a decent value for my trade. Most offer around $19k CDN, which is absurd for a WRX, less than 2 years old with 84,000km on it, cost $35k new.
I find a guy at Cruickshank Ford in Toronto who says he'll work with me. So I go in. They check out my car, and call around. They come back and offer me $21k, I figure it's the best I'm gonna get, so I agree. He wanted to take the new Focus for a test drive, even though I didn't really need to cause I already have, but whatever. Go for a drive. This one is pretty good, I'm sold.
So, we figure out exactly what options I want, and he's going to do a dealer search. But first he does the build and price online to get the EPE price, and writes that down on the worksheet. Then he asks me how I want to pay for the $6000 upsidedownness. I said I wanted to finance it. He said you can't. I said, well, I'm really only upsidedown like $2000 once you figure the tax implications. He comes back, and asks if I can put down $1000. I say fine. He writes down on the worksheet "$437 60/96". I was pretty happy, because finally I'm getting somewhere. There's the $440 I thought it should be. The like /96 was curious, but, whatever. I had no idea what was happening. He gives me a credit app to fill out.
So, I'm done with the salesman, and they send me over to see slick willie. You know the guy. Slicked back hair, pinstripe suit... the guy who tries to upsell you.
First he tries the life/disability insurance thing. Nope.
Then the extended warranty. Nope. But that takes forever.
Then he tries the rust proofing/undercoating/fabric protection/paint coating. Nope.
He's getting frustrated.
He goes back to the disability insurance. NO!
Think about the extended warranty. NO!
I said: "Look, we'll be here all night, I'm not going to buy any of this other stuff."
Fine he says, and prints out the official Ford sales form. He shows it, and it says the sale price is $29,999. I question it, he says nevermind, that's just because we're doing a dealer trade we don't know the price yet.
Now, here's where it becomes a blurr. I can't remember how I got tipped off, but he said something like "So that'll be 60 payments of $437, plus residual." Or something like that.
"What?"
"60 payments, plus there's a balloon payment."
"What balloon payment?"
"Well, this is a 96 month loan, amortized for 60 months."
"What does THAT mean?"
"Well, it's like your mortgage, it's 25 years, but you arrange payments for only 5 years at a time or whatever."
"Hold up, so I make 60 payments of $437, but then I'm not done?"
"Yeah, you still owe 36 payments."
"WHAT?!"
"It's a 60/96 loan".
I look back down at the sheet, and I see it's an 8.9% loan, not a 3.9%. I ask what happened to the 3.9%.
"Well, this isn't a Ford Credit loan."
"Why not?"
"Well, you're upside down on your trade in, that's gotta come from somewhere."
"36 payments of $437, what is that?!"
I'm feeverishly trying to do the math in my head... "That's like $12,000!!! Are you CRAZY!"
"Well, you're upsidedown!"
"$2000, and I just put down $1000!"
"That's it, I'm done, give me my ownership back." Which I'd signed over and everything.
He tells me I should talk to the sales manager. I go in, think *maybe* I can salvage this. It's the end of the month, maybe they really do want to sell a car.
Nope. The salesmanager pulls the same BS line. "The upside down loan had to come from somewhere." I grab his calculator, $437x36 "is $14,000! Are you f***ing kidding me? Do you think I'm STUPID?!" $437X96 "Is $42,000, that's what the WRX cost tax in!!!"
I pretty much stormed out at that point.
Oh, the best part, the girl who runs the credit card machine already left, so they can't refund my deposit! I gotta go back in tomorrow to refund it!
I'm still sitting here.... absolutely incredulous... I can't believe what they tried to pull! I can't believe how close I was to practically signing my life away.
What a bunch of, in my opinion ;), CRIMINALS! I would have... I dunno, if I hadn't caught that, and it had went through... they're THIEVES, in my opinion. I think they're EVIL.
I really don't understand how FoMoCo can let this happen.
I'd heard the dealers were desperate because the EPE makes it impossible for them to work the price. But I had NO idea!
I'll try to keep this short. But it's long... but you'll want to read it, it's amazing.
I bought a WRX because when I worked at Dana, they had a car allowance, but I had to have a car worth at least $22kUS. Now that I don't work there anymore and I have to make the payments myself, I just find it's not worth it for a daily driver. It's just too much.
So I want out, and I really like a ZX5 with the GFX package. I like the way they drive, and they're cheap. So, I'm shopping around, but of course I'm upsidedown on my loan, which complicates things. I owe $26.5k (CDN), but WRX's with my milage sell for around $23ish. Still, it could work out, if I could get $22k for the trade, I'd save another $3300 in taxes on the new car, so not bad.
I went to one dealer, Summit Ford in Toronto, they had the car I was looking for, so we tried to work out a deal. They took the details on my car and were going to shop it around for a buyer. He calls me back two days later, and says he can give me $22k for it. So, I go in the next day. I take a test drive, it's all going fine, but when we go to crunch the numbers, he tells me the sales manager thought my car had leather, and didn't know about some minor damage. Even though the salesguy had seen it and wrote it down on an official form. He appologizes, but can only offer $20,500 now.
Now, Ford Canada has Employee Pricing for Everyone going on right now. So the prices are fixed. I know exactly what the car costs, and what the payments should be at the 3.9% they are doing with the EPE.
I said, we'll talk more about the trade value, let's look at the numbers for now. He does the back and forth between the sales manager with a piece of paper thing. Comes back with $630/month. "Um... my WRX payments are $729, there's something wrong here." I look at the numbers, and they taxed me on the value of the trade, instead of subtracting that from the tax on the new car like they should. Then he comes back with $550/month. Still too high, I said I thought it should be $440. I didn't realize, among other things they had added freight, when it's already included in the EPE price, and they still taxed me on the new car.
At that point, I walked out, this is dumb. It only really hit me later, there's no way that their sales manager would make basic accounting errors, I think they were intentionally trying to screw me.
So, I start shopping around, calling around, seeing if anybody will give me a decent value for my trade. Most offer around $19k CDN, which is absurd for a WRX, less than 2 years old with 84,000km on it, cost $35k new.
I find a guy at Cruickshank Ford in Toronto who says he'll work with me. So I go in. They check out my car, and call around. They come back and offer me $21k, I figure it's the best I'm gonna get, so I agree. He wanted to take the new Focus for a test drive, even though I didn't really need to cause I already have, but whatever. Go for a drive. This one is pretty good, I'm sold.
So, we figure out exactly what options I want, and he's going to do a dealer search. But first he does the build and price online to get the EPE price, and writes that down on the worksheet. Then he asks me how I want to pay for the $6000 upsidedownness. I said I wanted to finance it. He said you can't. I said, well, I'm really only upsidedown like $2000 once you figure the tax implications. He comes back, and asks if I can put down $1000. I say fine. He writes down on the worksheet "$437 60/96". I was pretty happy, because finally I'm getting somewhere. There's the $440 I thought it should be. The like /96 was curious, but, whatever. I had no idea what was happening. He gives me a credit app to fill out.
So, I'm done with the salesman, and they send me over to see slick willie. You know the guy. Slicked back hair, pinstripe suit... the guy who tries to upsell you.
First he tries the life/disability insurance thing. Nope.
Then the extended warranty. Nope. But that takes forever.
Then he tries the rust proofing/undercoating/fabric protection/paint coating. Nope.
He's getting frustrated.
He goes back to the disability insurance. NO!
Think about the extended warranty. NO!
I said: "Look, we'll be here all night, I'm not going to buy any of this other stuff."
Fine he says, and prints out the official Ford sales form. He shows it, and it says the sale price is $29,999. I question it, he says nevermind, that's just because we're doing a dealer trade we don't know the price yet.
Now, here's where it becomes a blurr. I can't remember how I got tipped off, but he said something like "So that'll be 60 payments of $437, plus residual." Or something like that.
"What?"
"60 payments, plus there's a balloon payment."
"What balloon payment?"
"Well, this is a 96 month loan, amortized for 60 months."
"What does THAT mean?"
"Well, it's like your mortgage, it's 25 years, but you arrange payments for only 5 years at a time or whatever."
"Hold up, so I make 60 payments of $437, but then I'm not done?"
"Yeah, you still owe 36 payments."
"WHAT?!"
"It's a 60/96 loan".
I look back down at the sheet, and I see it's an 8.9% loan, not a 3.9%. I ask what happened to the 3.9%.
"Well, this isn't a Ford Credit loan."
"Why not?"
"Well, you're upside down on your trade in, that's gotta come from somewhere."
"36 payments of $437, what is that?!"
I'm feeverishly trying to do the math in my head... "That's like $12,000!!! Are you CRAZY!"
"Well, you're upsidedown!"
"$2000, and I just put down $1000!"
"That's it, I'm done, give me my ownership back." Which I'd signed over and everything.
He tells me I should talk to the sales manager. I go in, think *maybe* I can salvage this. It's the end of the month, maybe they really do want to sell a car.
Nope. The salesmanager pulls the same BS line. "The upside down loan had to come from somewhere." I grab his calculator, $437x36 "is $14,000! Are you f***ing kidding me? Do you think I'm STUPID?!" $437X96 "Is $42,000, that's what the WRX cost tax in!!!"
I pretty much stormed out at that point.
Oh, the best part, the girl who runs the credit card machine already left, so they can't refund my deposit! I gotta go back in tomorrow to refund it!
I'm still sitting here.... absolutely incredulous... I can't believe what they tried to pull! I can't believe how close I was to practically signing my life away.
What a bunch of, in my opinion ;), CRIMINALS! I would have... I dunno, if I hadn't caught that, and it had went through... they're THIEVES, in my opinion. I think they're EVIL.
I really don't understand how FoMoCo can let this happen.
I'd heard the dealers were desperate because the EPE makes it impossible for them to work the price. But I had NO idea!
