[ZTWsquared]

OAC_Sparky,Oct 24 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:the union has no control over poor designs, poor styling, bad business decisions and bad customer service. [right][snapback]213183[/snapback][/right]

Absolutely true ... but the line begins to blur when you consider the nature of the bad business decisions you reference ... because you have to include among the worst of them the collective agreements over the years that gave your union brothers and sisters to the south some of the most lucrative retirement and health benefits in the U.S.

The so-called "legacy costs" of retired union workers is the real difference right now between the NA manufacturers and the Japanese/Koreans -- something to the tune of $1500 per new vehicle built -- and that number will only get higher for Ford as they reduce their volume.

I'm not saying that union workers shouldn't have received these benefits or were acting in bad faith in demanding them ... but you can't ignore the reality of what Ford could do in terms of quality and/or price (or importing hot stuff from Europe) if they didn't start each and every day 1500 bucks in the hole for every unit made.

So you can't simply say it's all Ford's fault, because union wages, health and retirement benefits are one of the most significant factors in Ford's inability to compete -- and that's not a knock on unions it's a statement of fact that most experts agree on.

Having said that ... the experts were also predicting this exact situation decades ago and the NA manufacturers chose to deal with it by focusing on high-profit vehicles that the Japanese and Koreans did not compete against -- and we all see now how that strategy worked out -- and so from that perspective (hindsight being 20/20) Ford management is culpable.