[ZTWsquared]

meford4u,Mar 9 2009, 08:39 AM Wrote:Just a hypothetical question gentlemen, used to raise discussion.

The fact is we already gave up $$$ and vacation time with the last round of our bargaining talks.

Having the government step in and forcibly have our contract re-opened is a major sticking point with many of our members, including myself.  Do we now live in the society of Big Brother?
[right][snapback]282343[/snapback][/right]

But you can't have it both ways Bryan ... either the government "steps in" and gives loans where the credit market won't or it doesn't ... you can call it "big brother" and frankly I'd agree - but the government isn't a bank, and so if they choose to add some stipulations to the loan then so be it - the union had a choice of going along with it or not - bottom line: it was a choice.

The domestic industry has had decades to prepare for a possible recession and I'm not saying it's the unions fault they weren't prepared because my attitude is that the manufacturers agreed to every contract they signed.

But having said that, if the union is all about collectively distributing the wealth amongst it members and retirees when the contracts are good, then it only stands to reason that the pain is shared when the times demand a reduction in benefits.

Frankly I LOL when I read that someone (no offense to anyone here) is asked or forced to "give up" vacation or pension or other benefits ... fawk me: as a self-employed person the only source of these benefits is me and my ability to convince clients to pay me. I'm not saying that unions don't have a valid role in our marketplace ... but in taking a job and more specifically taking a job that includes non-monetary benefits in lieu of pay, those are decisions and choices that each of us have made for ourselves, and to some degree we need to take personal responsibility for them.

I'm not complaining because I chose to be self-employed ... but for reference purposes only let me say that I pay for all my own job training, vacations, retirement plans, health plans, memberships etc etc etc ... if I'm sick and can't work I don't get paid ... if my services aren't needed I don't work and I don't get paid ... I pay into UI but I am not eligible to collect it ... if the market goes south and my clients can't use me, I don't work and I don't get paid and they don't have to give me any notice let alone pay in lieu of notice ... and if my clients go bankrupt before they pay me, I'm SOL because unlike an employee I have no standing as an unsecured creditor.

Is life tough these days as a CAW member? Well I suppose relative to last year the answer is yes ... but relative to anyone else in our society who isn't independantly wealthy, I'd say you've got advantages that many of the rest of us don't and at the worst you may suffer as the rest of us do.