[scoobasteve]

nass,Jun 20 2006, 05:42 PM Wrote:I don't think Burnin21 is complaining really, he posted to ask for help. It's hard being a young "punk" in their eyes. I don't think telling him how he messed up is going to help him any.

Scooba: do you think your treatment has anything to do with the car you drive? I highly doubt a neon owner would get the same treatment :)
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It very well could be/most likley is.

I know in Matt's case he doesnt have an SVT... but Both ticketz and i have/Had SVT's and got the same crappy service...

When i bought the car, i was told i'd get Preffered SVT service. Then the day after i bought the car, i took it in because there was a leak into the headlight.

Ford told me they didnt want to pick me up from work, because it was rush hour.

hahaha

Chrysler Never said i'd get loaner cars. or anything for that matter, Yet they took the extra step.

But i guess we'll see how this all plays out on thursday

[microbunny]

who wants to blow up burnin's car and my car....

f***in ford tranny...

:angry:

p.s...my car is f***ed now too!@

[scoobasteve]

Uhoh bunny, Dont bash ford or you'll be off of mefords good list :lol:

[Burnin21]

Well I guess its safe to say that at least the Focus trannys are shiet! Beaten on or not, my buddy can't blow up his tranny in his Civic and he does worse stuff than me!

And yes thats right, I was only asking for help and looking for some advice. Feels good to get bitched out when all you do is ask for help. Next time i'll keep my mouth shut.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Or just tune out the useless replies? :D

[ANTHONYD]

Burnin21,Jun 21 2006, 09:02 AM Wrote:Well I guess its safe to say that at least the Focus trannys are shiet! Beaten on or not, my buddy can't blow up his tranny in his Civic and he does worse stuff than me!

And yes thats right, I was only asking for help and looking for some advice. Feels good to get bitched out when all you do is ask for help. Next time i'll keep my mouth shut.
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I took s*** for years Matt.

There are some serious Ford Cheerleaders in this community.

[ZTWsquared]

Burnin21,Jun 21 2006, 09:02 AM Wrote:And yes thats right, I was only asking for help and looking for some advice. Feels good to get bitched out when all you do is ask for help. Next time i'll keep my mouth shut.
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In asking for help and advice you gave everyone the opportunity to give you some insight or advice you perhaps didn't really want to hear. That's the nature of the request you made.

In your original post you claimed that the dealership did some work that you did not authorize. Anyone who knows anything about the way Ford dealerships work, understand that this is highly unlikely.

Even still, I took you at your word and suggested that you re-read the document you signed to fully understand what you had committed to. I thought that was good advice that could lead to a constructive course of action – but only if you were straight with us.

Except for vaguely admitting to signing something, you never did tell us specifically what you signed for, and you continued to trash talk the dealership. And when you went ahead and paid the dealership (after stating you wouldn’t pay for s***t!) it was pretty clear to the rest of us that you had indeed authorized the work they did, and the misunderstanding was in fact your mistake.

But rather than admit your mistake, you continued to trash talk the dealership and you continued to intimate that somehow Ford of Canada was responsible for your situation. If you were as beligerent with the dealership folks, all the while being wrong, I can imagine how they would have thought about you.

IMO your request for help generated some some good advice, some gentle criticism and some "tough love" that someone who seems to know more about you than I do, thought was justified. Part of growing up is learning how to accept all these things with grace and with thanks.

You're welcome.

PS: if you put your ego and your anger in your pocket and go back and talk to the service manager about what happened, you might still find there is a satisfactory resolution to be had. Try talking gently and with humility and you just might get some of that hard-earned money back.

[Flofocus]

ZTWsquared,Jun 21 2006, 11:10 AM Wrote:In your original post you claimed that the dealership did some work that you did not authorize. Anyone who knows anything about the way Ford dealerships work, understand that this is highly unlikely.[right][snapback]194420[/snapback][/right]

:lol:

I stopped here...

Happens all the time (and I am speaking form personal experience).

[scoobasteve]

ANTHONYD,Jun 21 2006, 10:11 AM Wrote:

Burnin21,Jun 21 2006, 09:02 AM Wrote:Well I guess its safe to say that at least the Focus trannys are shiet! Beaten on or not, my buddy can't blow up his tranny in his Civic and he does worse stuff than me!

And yes thats right, I was only asking for help and looking for some advice. Feels good to get bitched out when all you do is ask for help. Next time i'll keep my mouth shut.
[right][snapback]194374[/snapback][/right]

I took s*** for years Matt.

There are some serious Ford Cheerleaders in this community.
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Hahaha, don't i know. :ph34r:

[ZTWsquared]

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 12:47 PM Wrote:I stopped here...

Happens all the time (and I am speaking form personal experience).
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Communication problems between service writer and customer are the norm just as you are suggesting.

But doing work that wasn't signed for isn't the norm, because dealers have problems getting paid for it. I can assure you that at a Ford dealership they wont touch your car until they have your signature on a contract.

More often than not the situation is exactly what happened to Burnin - he didn't read or understand the contract he was signing.

Don't sign a contract you didn't read. If you don't understand something - don't sign. If you don't think the service writer got it right - make them change it or don't sign. If you want a report only - make sure you sign a contract that says report only. See where this is going?

It's just as much the customers responsibility to make sure they're getting the service they need - signing a contract for something you don't want is frankly lazy or stupid, and often both.

On the other hand, if the dealer did screw up and you've had work performed on your car that you didn't authorize and don't want (I didn't say it never happens), then don't pay for it - paying is the same as signing for it - and it's equally stupid.

So if this happens to you all the time, unless you fall into one of the two above categories, it would appear you get a lot of work done for free - in which case I don't see what your problem is.

[Flofocus]

I drop my car off at night, so I sign nothing.

Campbell ford did it to me twice, and your right, I didnt pay anything (had to resort to saying Im getting lawyers involved :rolleyes: ). I stopped going to that dealership pretty quickly. :blink:

Soucy Ford (Now Rockland Ford) did it a couple of times also. Once for a fuel sending unit & pump (second time being in for it)...I was pretty upset when I had that bill and they never called me to tell me the work was done. Luckily I knew the Service manager personally and we did agree on a payment plan to pay them back for the work done (it needed to be done if I wanted wheels to drive).

It's happened with my parents at the VW dealerships, and freinds have told me similar stories......this isnt just a ford dealership thing. It DOES happen.

I wish I lived in your world though, everything seems so so perfect. :P ;)

[meford4u]

ZTW.........Amen to you brother.

But I think we are falling on deaf ears. So I give up.

Self admitted Ford cheerleader. Too funny.

The point was made that it was pretty clear that Matt signed a document he didn't read. End of story. I am moving on.

I was a little rough on Matt. I still think he deserves it. Matt, if you come on here, asking for our help, only to tell us half the story and we have to piece together through analogy that you signed something you didn't read and then want us to back you up? That aint happening.

The dealership does have it's issues. agreed. But live and learn.

You should hear what I have to say about Ford at work.

[ZX5focused]

im always lucky, the dealer where i bring my car never has the parts in stock (small dealer), so they always call me before ordering them. it gives me a chance to confirm, with them what is wrong and how much it will cost.

[ZTWsquared]

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 01:35 PM Wrote::lol:

I drop my car off at night, so I sign nothing. 

Campbell ford did it to me twice, and your right, I didnt pay anything (had to resort to saying Im getting lawyers involved  :rolleyes: ).  I stopped going to that dealership pretty quickly.  :blink:

Soucy Ford (Now Rockland Ford) did it a couple of times also.  Once for a fuel sending unit & pump (second time being in for it)...I was pretty upset when I had that bill and they never called me to tell me the work was done.  Luckily I knew the Service manager personally and we did agree on a payment plan to pay them back for the work done (it needed to be done if I wanted wheels to drive).

It's happened with my parents at the VW dealerships, and freinds have told me similar stories......this isnt just a ford dealership thing.  It DOES happen.

I wish I lived in your world though, everything seems so perfect.  :P  ;)
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Sarcasm duly noted – I will respond in kind.

So what you’re saying is this … on the occassions where there was nothing signed you didn’t have to pay anything. Geez – fawkin’ stealership! I can see why you didn’t go back.

Based on what you’ve written here it seems your family and friends have yet to learn a pretty basic lesson in life – don’t take your car in for service without getting in writing exactly what they’re going to do it. You’re apparently living proof that this is a good way of potentially getting screwed. Who knew? Oh wait, I did.

If my world seems perfect to you (and relatively speaking it probably is) it’s because I take full responsibility for what happens to me. I learn from my mistakes and I don’t constantly look for someone else to blame when something happens I don’t like.

The world (yes, my world too) is full of service people who make mistakes that could negatively affect you. It is also full of people and businesses just waiting to take advantage of the unsuspecting, lazy and stupid consumer; and there are plenty of those around – you probably know a few.

But the laws are all on the consumers’ side and there’s lots we can do as individuals to protect ourselves … starting with “get it in writing,” “don’t sign anything you don’t understand” and “don’t pay for anything you didn’t sign for.”

Follow those three simple rules and you won’t get taken advantage by any dealership - even in your less-than-perfect world.

[darkpuppet]

One more thing to add.... sort of inline with ZTW's statements.

A lot of comments that get made tend to reflect a pre-existing belief that dealerships are trying to rip people off, or that they're looking for the next sucker.

I think this often leads to a lot of people going into the dealership with a chip on their shoulder, and it will negatively affect all of their interactions with the dealership.

I've seen it from a couple members here (and not just with dealing with ford).. where they've ripped into a customer service rep because they fealt they were being slighted. And it's not warranted... Sure, as customers, we all expect a certain amount of service for the money we pay, and we rightfully deserve it.

However, that doesn't mean that we're going to improve our chances of getting good service by going in with a chip on our shoulder, making demands, and just getting up in the dealer's face.

[ANTHONYD]

It's unfortunate of all the horror stories I hear about dealers.

I bought my car at Discovery (burlington) have ALL my service done there and for the life of my I can't remember a troublesome experience. :blink:

My dealer was ALWAYS courtious (even when I went in pounding my fist on the table) were quick and thourough in describing the problem, what they had to do to fix it and what it required. Awesome experiences.

In EVERY phone call to Ford Customer Service, I ALWAYS made it perfectly clear that I was not upset with my dealer, just the car I bought there. I always made sure to give credit where it was due.

So remember, BEFORE you start popping off your mouth about how s*** your dealer is....stand on the other side of the desk and look at what they see. It's not the dealer's fault your car went for a s***, so you can't really blame them for it. You signed a paper that they are REQUIRED to put in front of you....Therefore they have the authority to do whatever it takes to repair the problem.

It took me years to understand this. Like you, when the car broke...I screamed bloody murder. I wish I could find the posts, it was WAY before your time (you probably didn't have your liscence yet) :P But I was pissed. WEEKLY....Ask some of the "old timers" on here. Remember, the dealer is in buisiness. They make money off of repairs, NOT arguing.

[Flofocus]

Quote:Sarcasm duly noted – I will respond in kind.

So what you’re saying is this … on the occassions where there was nothing signed you didn’t have to pay anything. Geez – fawkin’ stealership! I can see why you didn’t go back.

This is after politely dealing with the service manager without any success, calling my dad to come and help me (I was 19, at the time and it is embarassing to get your 'daddy' involved), that still didnt work, so we threatened with lawyers to the owner. You must have selective reading cuz I did post this above.

Quote:Based on what you’ve written here it seems your family and friends have yet to learn a pretty basic lesson in life – don’t take your car in for service without getting in writing exactly what they’re going to do it. You’re apparently living proof that this is a good way of potentially getting screwed. Who knew? Oh wait, I did.

My car is broken, I work, I dont want to take time off, I have a trailer or in the times that I can, limp the car to the dealership at night when its closed. Throw the keys in the night drop off box, go to work the next morning. Go to dealership to check on car after work is done, "Yeah its done, $450 please" :rolleyes:

Quote:If my world seems perfect to you (and relatively speaking it probably is) it’s because I take full responsibility for what happens to me. I learn from my mistakes and I don’t constantly look for someone else to blame when something happens I don’t like.

Your world is perfect because you learn from your mistakes? I learn from them to, hence why I didnt go back to the 1st mentioned dealership ;) Life is better now, still not perfect though. :P

Quote:The world (yes, my world too) is full of service people who make mistakes that could negatively affect you. It is also full of people and businesses just waiting to take advantage of the unsuspecting, lazy and stupid consumer; and there are plenty of those around – you probably know a few.

I'm not lazy, stoopid or unsuspecting, either is my family. Nice try ;)

Quote:But the laws are all on the consumers’ side and there’s lots we can do as individuals to protect ourselves … starting with “get it in writing,”

Check....never got a call for the work done, so cant really sign, now can I?

Quote:“don’t sign anything you don’t understand”

Check....never got a phone call for the work done, so nothing to understand, right?

Quote:and “don’t pay for anything you didn’t sign for.”

Check...you see where Im going?

Quote:Follow those three simple rules and you won’t get taken advantage by any dealership - even in your less-than-perfect world.

Obviously not.

Even when it happened at the current dealership (rockland Ford) they knew they f***ed up. Nobody called to get the ok from me. But since these guys UNDERSTOOD THEIR MISTAKE, I worked with them and paid the bill when I had the money to do so. The car needed a new pump and fuel sending unit....no doubt about it, but the call before hand would have been nice. I would have parked the car in that case, waited till I could afford the work, then bring it in for the service.

[Flofocus]

darkpuppet,Jun 21 2006, 02:16 PM Wrote:However, that doesn't mean that we're going to improve our chances of getting good service by going in with a chip on our shoulder, making demands, and just getting up in the dealer's face.
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I've never got in their face, yelled or got aggresive with them. I also work in the an industry where customer service is at the top of the list, so I know how it is.

BUT, I also know when I'm being screwed. Rockland Ford made a mistake (this was years ago BTW, theres a certain member here that relatives working there) and I'm still going to that dealership because they admitted to their mistake and we both worked together to find a resolution. Thats a hell of a lot better than what campbell ford did and why I still and will always bring my car to Rockland Ford for service.

It takes A LOT for me to bad mouth somebody/company, so when I do, you know they must have screwed up large. My engine is blown, I'm 100% sure it's the tuners fault, but I wont officially complain to him/the public until that head is off and I see bent rods and broken pistons. If I open that block up and see that mess, you guys will be able to read another great rant by flofocus. :lol: If its not, and the new tune is flawless on my new engine, then Im gonna praise the tuner. I dont complain because I have nothing to do or because I'm stoopid, unsuspecting, lazy, or have chip on my shoulder. I complain because I was 'wronged' in some way and would like it corrected.

[darkpuppet]

^^--- my comment wasn't directed to you specifically, just the general population.

There are members here who've attacked CSRs without just cause quite demonstrably with a chip on their shoulder.

I have no idea how you interracted with your dealership in this case. All I was saying is that everyone needs to step back once in a while and honestly appraise their actions sometimes, that's all..

Some folks may realize they'll receive better service for actually copping less attitude.

[ZTWsquared]

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:This is after politely dealing with the service manager without any success, calling my dad to come and help me (I was 19, at the time and it is embarassing to get your 'daddy' involved), that still didnt work, so we threatened with lawyers to the owner.  You must have selective reading cuz I did post this above.

I saw it – just thought I’d cut through all the crap and get to the real bottom line which is: at the end of the day you didn’t have to pay for a repair you didn’t authorize – which has been my point all along.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:My car is broken, I work, I dont want to take time off, I have a trailer or in the times that I can, limp the car to the dealership at night when its closed.  Throw the keys in the night drop off box, go to work the next morning.  Go to dealership to check on car after work is done, "Yeah its done, $450 please"  :rolleyes:

Okay – just so I get this straight – you’re saying you didn’t sign anything because the dealership didn’t give you anything to sign. Here’s a news flash – you can give them something in writing yourself – and with your very own signature on it! Next time you absolutly need to leave the car after hours try this: include a note with your keys. “Dear Mr. Dealer … do this but don’t do that and whatever you do call me at this number before you spend my money … oh, and that scribble at the bottom is my signature that indicates I really, really mean it.” And if you don’t think that will work, you can also send them a fax or send them an email. If they don’t provide anything to sign, then your written instructions becomes the contract.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:Your world is perfect because you learn from your mistakes?

No … what I said was I take responsibility for what happens to me. Learning from my mistakes allows me to do it better, for example: I read everything – usually more than once … I ask questions … I write instructions … I follow up by phone – usually more than once … I follow up by email … I take nothing for granted … I accept that communication is a two-way street … I know that I shouldn’t rely on anything that isn’t in writing, and I accept the risk when I do … I assume that mistakes will be made and I accept the consequences if I was even partially responsible… I treat everyone with respect and courtesy … I understand and account for the fact that everyone has a bad day now and then.

This works very well for me. If what you’re doing isn’t working – you may want to try something different.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:I'm not lazy, stoopid or unsuspecting, either is my family.  Nice try ;)

Right, sorry – you just can’t be bothered to make sure everything’s in writing.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:Check....never got a call for the work done, so cant really sign, now can I?

See comment above re: putting it in writing yourself.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:Check....never got a phone call for the work done, so nothing to understand, right?

Wrong – see note above about putting it in writing yourself and try to figure out how to follow up without them having to call you.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:Obviously not.

The only thing that’s obvious here is that the times you’ve had trouble with the dealership are the times you didn’t get, or put, anything in writing.

Flofocus,Jun 21 2006, 02:55 PM Wrote:Even when it happened at the current dealership (rockland Ford) they knew they f***ed up.  Nobody called to get the ok from me.  But since these guys UNDERSTOOD THEIR MISTAKE, I worked with them and paid the bill when I had the money to do so.  The car needed a new pump and fuel sending unit....no doubt about it, but the call before hand would have been nice.  I would have parked the car in that case, waited till I could afford the work, then bring it in for the service.[right][snapback]194491[/snapback][/right]

Okay – so what are you saying? A ) That the evil dealership was trying to rip you off – or B ) there was a failure to communicate and they didn’t know you wanted them to call – or C ) you told them to call and they simply made an honest mistake by not doing so?

In all three instances you would have been better served by putting your instructions in writing and following up – that’s what I’m talking about taking full responsibility.

I’m happy for you that you were able to work it out – obviously not all dealerships are the scum of the earth many would make them out to be, including the author of the first post.

Do dealerships make mistakes – you bet. Do dealership customers make mistakes – yes they do. My point is that we should be just as critical of the customer who won’t own up to their mistakes, as we are of the dealerships that don’t.