[darkpuppet]

NOS2Go4Me,Aug 28 2006, 04:12 PM Wrote:And for every stupid Canadian that pulls that stunt, there are more that weren't born here. It's simple numbers. We allow more folk to emigrate to Canada than we should, and that's the bottom line.

I'm not in charge of immigration, I'm not writing policy. And I re-iterate... was he licensed properly? We don't know, and likely never will. It's an actual question outside of my original beef (too much immigration to this country).

And it's not racial. Racial would be saying that all guys from his country are morons and can't ride motor bikes. I was questioning the legality of his motorbike ride as they quite audibly declared in that segment that he WASN'T a Canadian citizen. If anyone's putting a racial light on it, it's the guys that produced the segment. I merely asked the question that no-one wanted me to ask. Too bad.

And there's nothing wrong with questioning the legitimacy of folks arriving in this country and whether they're staying here legally or not. Remember the numbers on what it costs us to pay for a prison inmate to "live" for a day? It's more for an immigrant that is of no use to the country. As taxpayers, we're entitled to question what we pay for out of our paycheques every 2 weeks / month / what have you.

Plenty of folks arrive here daily and make great contributions to our society. Plenty more than the honest, hard-working folks come here claiming political persecution and then they ship back a large chunk of OUR tax dollars to their families and causes in their home countries.
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The video said he was a refugee... and they didn't say anything to his license... and the legality of the ride ended the moment they started speeding like fools.

Why you had to bring immigration and racial issues into it befuddles me... it only makes you appear racists and ignorant.

[NOS2Go4Me]

*shakes head*

What's next? A vacation for suggesting he wasn't in the country legally? Obviously he was landed, but what if I had?

Come on now... this is sad. They said it first, I expounded upon it. What's wrong with questioning the legality of him being on the bike in the first place if he's a refugee? He obviously shouldn't have had access to that bike to begin with.

I'm not racist, but if it's easier for everyone to jump the gun and assume so... fine. Whatever floats your boats, folks. I really don't care.

This country, and indeed this little microcosm here on FC.net, has become a bleeding heart shelter for everyone. If someone thinks/says different than the sheep believe, you get blasted. Sorry for not being a sheep.

EDIT - LOL Flo... you're threatening Puppet with a vacation? Otherwise, I don't get it.

[Flofocus]

Guys, please stay on topic or else you guys get a fc.net vacation.

That goes to the both of you.

No Smilies here.














































































:lol:

[darkpuppet]

NOS2Go4Me,Aug 28 2006, 04:43 PM Wrote:*shakes head*

What's next? A vacation for suggesting he wasn't in the country legally? Obviously he was landed, but what if I had?

Come on now... this is sad. They said it first, I expounded upon it. What's wrong with questioning the legality of him being on the bike in the first place if he's a refugee? He obviously shouldn't have had access to that bike to begin with.

I'm not racist, but if it's easier for everyone to jump the gun and assume so... fine. Whatever floats your boats, folks. I really don't care.

This country, and indeed this little microcosm here on FC.net, has become a bleeding heart shelter for everyone. If someone thinks/says different than the sheep believe, you get blasted. Sorry for not being a sheep.

EDIT - LOL Flo... you're threatening Puppet with a vacation? Otherwise, I don't get it.
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nobody's getting banned for having an opinion... but when I saw the video, read the articles, I read, "stupid bikers"... but then I read your post, and I read, "stupid immigrants".

And that's why I roll my eyes, because I don't see it being the primary problem behind street racing... it's about stupid being stupid...

We can assume that if the guy didn't have a license, they would have mentioned in the clip that "he had no license" rather than, "he didn't have much experience with motorcycles"... chances are good he was newly licensed.

And being a refugee, he had more reason to be in the country than most 'landed' immigrants...so it seems insufficient grounds to bring up Canada's lax immigration laws over a 'stupid motorcycle rider kills innocent person' story.

If you want to connect that with recent terrorist-camp-in-canada events, maybe that would be a better venue for such discussions. As it stands, it sort of contrasts with the original subject matter in this thread.

[meford4u]

NOS2Go4Me,Aug 28 2006, 04:43 PM Wrote:I'm not racist[right][snapback]204413[/snapback][/right]

The first step in not being racist, if that's what you want, is to accept that you have a very racist and blunt point of view.
Then again so do I.
But I admit that I am a racist.
That's where the truth starts and ends.
When you admit what you are and figure out where your point of view went askew, then you'll understand my point that this had nothing to do with being an immigrant.
It had everything to do with being an idiot on a motorcycle.

I think that's something we can agree upon.

[paolo]

A friend I knew was killed in a motor cycle accident half a year ago. He wasnt Racing or anything, but he was going higher speed than he should have, plus he was new to motorcycles.. Its unfortunate he decided to chance it.. He even owed me money for a cellphone he bought off me too, darn it!!

[darkpuppet]

paolo,Aug 28 2006, 07:16 PM Wrote:He even owed me money for a cellphone he bought off me too, darn it!!
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that's when you run to the scene and scoop up a kidney...

[NefCanuck]

Stuff like this in York Region makes me wish my dad and his wife would get the hell out of there <_< My dad esp. as he goes to work at 3AM and sees this s%$t firsthand :ph34r:

I have no idea what the licensing system is for motorcycles but christ, it just strikes me as odd for some with "limited experience" on motorcycles, he was able to legally ride a machine that could do 240KM/H!

Maybe I'm just stupid here but isn't putting a freshly minted motorcycle rider on a missle like that just begging for them to Darwin themselves out of the gene pool? :huh:

NefCanuck

[focusracer]

The biggest issue here for me is this, new rider buys new bike, slaesman at the dealer sells it to him, as the kid with no experience whatsoever rides away to go "learn" how to ride from his buddies the salesman smacks his coworker on the back and says "Hope he doesn't go splat!" and they walk away laughing. That happened last weekend here in Abbotsford when a kid went into a dealer with his rich dad for his 19th birthday present, a brand new Hayabusa, sure daddy bought him all the gear to go with it but that doesn't do sweet f all when he wipes out going 180 around a corner or lifts the front wheel, panics, cranks it harder in a panic and goes beyond 12 oclock into oncoming traffic. The kid's dad even asked the salesman if the bike was too much for his son, only to be told that if he's careful and get's used to the bike he'll be fine. Yeah right, I've ridden a lot of bikes including the Hyabusa and frankly it frightens the skittles right out of me. That's one of the biggest problems.

Because of this my buddy wouldn't buy the bike he wanted from there and we ended up going out to Richmond to get the same one.

There needs to be some kind of responsibility put onto people, as far as insurance goes, if you can pay the insurance you can ride it or drive it, just like a kid getting into a high powered car that mommy and daddy bought them for their 16th birthday, why not just hand them a loaded full auto machine gun and say "have fun son"

[darkpuppet]

^^--- yeah, that's a HUGE thing I see these days that leads to half the problems.. parents are too accomodating of their kids and give them everything they want without thinking about the consequences.

That "it won't happen to my kid because he's a responsible kid". Parents need to be a bit more skeptical and start being parents. I know a lot of guys who hold the policy of "I'll buy the kids anything they need until they're done school"... and up until the kid is 25 years old, has absolutely no concept of financial responsibility, never mind respect for the things that money buys..

[ZTWsquared]

There's so much at work here, and so many factors raised - it's hard to keep track of what is really salient.

Some thoughts:

1) He was a refugee claimant which suggests some sort of legal status. I tried Adam to find a connection as to why they mentioned it ... it was at a point in the video where he was heard talking a foreign language, but they didn't seem to infer his actions were related to his citizenship or ethnicity.

2) They didn't say if he owned the bike - if he did, that would suggest he was licensed, or alternately the dealership didn't check his license status. Or maybe he bought it used -- who knows -- not enough info from the story.

If he was properly licensed I should think a re-vamp of the training and licensing requirements might be in order ... and not just because of this incident -- we all see motorcyclists doing this stuff regularly.

3)He was obviously very inexperienced - not only was he not wearing leathers or proper boots, he wasn't even wearing gloves at first - at that temp and at that speed his hands must have been almost paralyzed from cold.

I used to race motorcycles when I was single (between wife #1 and wife #2) and you can often feel the onset of a high speed wobble and correct for it (takes a solid grip) -- and if you've been riding for even a few months you quickly learn to recognize the type of road surface that can help cause it. Improper tire inflation can often be a cause, and given the snow on the ground (Superbowl weekend) they were probably also riding on rubber that was far too cold for proper handling.

4) The "racing" dynamic was also obviously at work here ... I seriously doubt he would have been driving that fast or that recklessly had he been riding alone. This video just reinforces in mind the need for special sentences for those deemed to have been racing.

Having said that ... I somehow doubt that this group would have been deterred by the prospect of heavier sentencing - just a hunch.

5) I'm not sure how often additional fatalaties happen - usually the rider simply kills themself - but in any event, I'm beginning to wonder how much responsibility the bike manfucturer should be asked to take for making a machine capable of 250 kph -- and basically selling it to anyone with a relatively useless license and the cash or credit.

6) And finally, I really feel for the families of the victims (and even the rider) - I can't help but think of my wife and kids on the road everyday and I gotta tell you, this stuff makes me more and more nervous and angry every day.

Maybe it's just of symptom of getting / being "old" - but my tolerance level is down to nil -- this stuff on our roads simply has to stop.

[darkpuppet]

ZTWsquared,Aug 28 2006, 09:57 PM Wrote:Maybe it's just of symptom of getting / being "old" - but my tolerance level is down to nil -- this stuff on our roads simply has to stop.
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I agree.

[focusracer]

I agree with the above, just a point for your point number 2, I don't know how it is in Ontario, or for that matter the rest of the country but you don't need to have a motorcycle license or even a learners to buy a bike from a dealer or to register and insure it here in BC. I was shocked when I found that out a few years back when my dad decided to buy a bike and someone from the dealer rode it home for him fully registered and insured. My dad hadn't even looked into getting his learners yet, just decided to trade his little scooter in for a 650, he never did get the hang of it and ended up wiping out and getting hurt badly. I still think the dealer should have made some kind of provisions for that purchase to make sure he was going to learn how to ride. I never took any kind of a rider training course but I think it should be madatory to have some type of training on a bike before hitting an open road. I taught my dad the basics in a parking lot, I rode the bike and he drove, for 2 weeks before he decided to hit the road. I didn't know he was going or else I would have discouraged it but it's pretty hard to tell your 60 yr old pops that you don't think he's ready. He rode for a week before his accident when he locked up front wheel because he didn't notice the gravel in the roadway and was coming into the corner way too hot, he'd seen me take it on my rocket before doing like 60k the summer previous, he hit it doing 60 in the early spring, hammered the front brake and down he went. Road conditions, inexperience, speed, were all factors, was he a young stupid kid on a crotch rocket doing mach 10 with his hair on fire, no he was a 60 yr old gray haired man trying to enjoy himself and made a serious error in judgement. Now he doesn't even want to look at bikes, doesn't want me to ever get one again either.

[DD1]

should of had the snow tyres on

dumbass

[naz]

sucks he killed someone else. please keep in mind guys that not everyone on 2 wheels is an idiot. some of us actually do keep that kind of riding on the track and ride appx speed limit when commuting on public roads