[ondafritz]

Okay I am losing my sympathy for Ford and only recently have I regained it and some respect for GM.

Without turning this into a rant, I'm surprised nobody on this FORUM has boycotted/petitioned or written to get the current Euro Focus (CMAX body?) Instead, we are getting the 1998 Focus with a restyled front snout. Don't get me a wrong, the Focus handles really well and the ZX3 looks very nice, but Ford is really stretching their luck it seems especially when My Camry Solara (only made in USA) has more Canadian/American content (85%) than a Ford Fusion, Focus or domestic Big 3.

Oh and to top it off, Ford doesn't even Offer stability control on any of its cars, not even a Lincoln sedan! How they heck are they supposed to compete? I personally have some stock market/bonds? in Ford, a chump change amount really, but I had faith in the company to do better than this! What ever happened to the days of $100k jobs for Blue collar and so on? Aka the Canadian/ American dream?

One more thing, I hate when people at my univ. in Buffalo (whose parents work for Ford) are crying and are like Toyota and Honda are stealing their jobs. I think the consumer i.e. people like you (current Ford/Focus owners) and maybe myself need to write a petition, frankly all of the high end and blue collar jobs are being sent all over the place, but not to Ford/GM. If you really think about it it is estimated between 10 to 50% of all jobs in Canada/USA are directly tied to the auto industry.

Now for the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) concern; I saw a used 2006 Lincoln Zephyr for lease with 18000km and the price was discounted almost $12000 CDN off sticker from new from the ford dealer.. So I thought all was good, a really good looking car, a really good price and very reliable too, but for some reason there is not Vehicle Stability Control available as of yet on any of Ford/Lincoln sedans... drive a car with that system in the winter, even with the best snow tires and you will never want to own a car with out it beyond a classic car of course. So basically, I am now looking at buying a Honda Civic spaceship with VSC and head airbags and more domestic content than any Domestic car (i.e. FORD), thanks Ford!

With an attitude like that of Ford's and a lack of innovation, bankruptcy is around the corner. Oh and to see Toyota become #1 (even though I've owned 2 so far) is just scary, I'm used to seeing GM/Ford being big.

Anyone have any opinions on this?

[2001 ZTS]

Switch to decaf?

[Focus man. Focus.]

In economy cars like the Focus, people in North America are more concerned with price rather than options like VSC. In Europe cars are smaller due to the narrow roads and they are used to driving smaller cars. Also their dollar is stronger so they can get more options in their cars at a somewhat reasonable price. When you are competing directly with major european makes you need to build more options into the cars to remain competitive in the marketplace.

This is only my $0.02, take it as you will.

[ondafritz]

Focus man, Focus.,Mar 30 2007, 05:41 PM Wrote:In economy cars like the Focus, people in North America are more concerned with price rather than options like VSC.  In Europe cars are smaller due to the narrow roads and they are used to driving smaller cars.  Also their dollar is stronger so they can get more options in their cars at a somewhat reasonable price.  When you are competing directly with major european makes you need to build more options into the cars to remain competitive in the marketplace. 

This is only my $0.02, take it as you will.
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I agree with you, but it still phases me a little that they have alienated a few people. I mean I was in India over a few weeks in Dec 2007. Their cars are more up to date than ours, at least from Ford/Honda/Toyota. The models in India are more upscale i.e. chrome accents, sportier exteriors etc. Canada maybe even the US needs to see some of this aesthetic upgrades, the Ka or Focus, etc.

2001 ZTS, if you are English or Indian, you will soon realize that changing over from Regular to Decaf is like telling a SMOKER to smoke Popeye candy cigarettes, it's just not going to happen. Anyways, thanks for taking this topic off topic 2001ZTS ... So back to Focus'..

in terms of VSC, at least Ford should offer it on competing models to midsize/luxury models. As for the Focus, they should have switched over to a more competitive Euro Focus to compete with the new Civic/Cobalt/Sentra etc. It just seems that Ford takes something and sits on their laurels; they just can't be doing that in their home country otherwise they are going to be in a worse situation than Chrysler was in the 1980's and then some foreign company will buy out your already Mexicanized Ford and we will all be driving Toyotas with even more domestic content than a Ford.

YAWN for 2001 ZTS attention span :lol: let's see Ford make a turn around and build some cool cars and keep North America competitive.

[ZTWsquared]

Opinions? Yeah gotta couple.

ondafritz Wrote:Without turning this into a rant, I'm surprised nobody on this FORUM has boycotted/petitioned or written to get the current Euro Focus (CMAX body?)

In terms of things that actually work to change a global company’s direction, boycott’s and petitions are virtually useless – if the business case can’t be made by the company’s high-paid bean counters a few signatures or disgruntled customers won’t make a difference. There are a few exceptions of course, but they’re rare.

ondafritz Wrote:Instead, we are getting the 1998 Focus with a restyled front snout. Don't get me a wrong, the Focus handles really well and the ZX3 looks very nice, but Ford is really stretching their luck it seems especially when My Camry Solara (only made in USA) has more Canadian/American content (85%) than a Ford Fusion, Focus or domestic Big 3.

Two things: in Europe the first Focus was a ’99 model, 2000 in NA, but point taken anyway … however ignoring design and amenities for a moment even though it’s a dated chassis the Focus still handles as good as anything else in its class, and that’s worth something. And if you think in terms of North American content (includes Mexico) I’m pretty sure you’ll find that both Focus and Fusion have greater NA content than does Camry.

ondafritz Wrote:Oh and to top it off, Ford doesn't even Offer stability control on any of its cars, not even a Lincoln sedan! How they heck are they supposed to compete?

The take rate on these systems throughout the industry is pretty light on cars … hardly a competitive advantage for anyone, or a competitive disadvantage for Ford. And Ford does have them (RSC or AdvanTrac) either standard or available on the trucks and SUVs that really need them.

ondafritz Wrote:I personally have some stock market/bonds? in Ford, a chump change amount really, but I had faith in the company to do better than this! What ever happened to the days of $100k jobs for Blue collar and so on? Aka the Canadian/ American dream?

Hmmm … a lot to digest here, but if you think of the bigger picture (Warren Buffet’s favourite hold term is “forever”) Ford could still very well be a bargain right now … and even shorter term: I bought when it went down to $4.80 US five or six years ago and sold when it hit 10 and change 18 to 24 months ago and I’m getting ready to buy again. You can still make dough even when a stock takes a shi-ite kicking. And the days of the $100k blue collar job are still here … just read the list of Ontario government employees who make over that (just released) … janitors and window repair guys are on the list.

ondafritz Wrote:One more thing, I hate when people at my univ. in Buffalo (whose parents work for Ford) are crying and are like Toyota and Honda are stealing their jobs. I think the consumer i.e. people like you (current Ford/Focus owners) and maybe myself need to write a petition, frankly all of the high end and blue collar jobs are being sent all over the place, but not to Ford/GM. If you really think about it it is estimated between 10 to 50% of all jobs in Canada/USA are directly tied to the auto industry.

What exactly would your petition ask for? You should check out Japan’s monetary and fiscal policies not to mention its restrictions on auto imports … not exactly Honda and Toyota stealing jobs, but they benefit from it to the detriment of NA industry. What's more, Canada's economy isn't doing too badly regardless of the shift of some manufacturing jobs to lower-cost economies and regardless of the shift of jobs away from Ford, Chrysler and GM - a shift that is mitigated to some degree by the shift of Japanese production into NA.

ondafritz Wrote:Now for the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) concern; I saw a used 2006 Lincoln Zephyr for lease with 18000km and the price was discounted almost $12000 CDN off sticker from new from the ford dealer.. So I thought all was good, a really good looking car, a really good price and very reliable too, but for some reason there is not Vehicle Stability Control available as of yet on any of Ford/Lincoln sedans... drive a car with that system in the winter, even with the best snow tires and you will never want to own a car with out it beyond a classic car of course. So basically, I am now looking at buying a Honda Civic spaceship with VSC and head airbags and more domestic content than any Domestic car (i.e. FORD), thanks Ford!

As you may know when Ford first introduced Focus in NA not only did it have traction control, which was unusual in its class, it also offered the option of Stability Control … nobody bought it and so after 2001 it was discontinued. And in terms of Zephyr / MKX safety – I think the Personal Safety System (all kinds of front, side and curtain airbags including the Roll Fold technology) and intelligent AWD with traction control, probably stacks up fairly well against the Civic with VSC.

ondafritz Wrote:With an attitude like that of Ford's and a lack of innovation, bankruptcy is around the corner. Oh and to see Toyota become #1 (even though I've owned 2 so far) is just scary, I'm used to seeing GM/Ford being big.

A lot of us share your frustration with Ford and admire a lot of what Toyota does even understanding the competitive advantages they have right now compared to the domestic industry.

But, I also think it’s way too premature to be sounding Ford’s death knell right now, and I’m prepared to bet that they’re still around in 10 years and building competitive vehicles that you might be interested in.

In any event I also think it’s good that you care and encourage you to share your feelings with Ford of Canada – let me know who you want to direct your comments to and I’ll give you their email addy.

[ZED_not_zee]

VSC is a cheap fix for poor chassie and suspension design... that's why so many companys offer it'' it's cheaper to make the car control it's power rather than handle it...

[oldeguy]

ZED_not_zee,Mar 31 2007, 12:20 PM Wrote:VSC is a cheap fix for poor chassie and suspension design... that's why so many companys offer it'' it's cheaper to make the car control it's power rather than handle it...
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Which is why it isn't on the Focus. How did people drive before Traction Control et al?

[PARKINGLOT]

Focus man, Focus.,Mar 30 2007, 06:41 PM Wrote:In economy cars like the Focus, people in North America are more concerned with price rather than options like VSC.  In Europe cars are smaller due to the narrow roads and they are used to driving smaller cars.  Also their dollar is stronger so they can get more options in their cars at a somewhat reasonable price.  When you are competing directly with major european makes you need to build more options into the cars to remain competitive in the marketplace. 

This is only my $0.02, take it as you will.
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that's just it. People in europe can actually drive. They don't need straight 6 lane highways and auto transmissions. They like to be able to DRIVE their car's..

[paolo]

I'm happy to say there is no traction control or stability control on my ZX3, the only thing to assist in driving is the driver skill and the fact that my car is a stick shift.

[meford4u]

Yep Ford sucks.

BLAH BLAH BLAH


Why even bother commenting on the board with such garbage and comments like "my Camry has more NA content than the fusion". What a load of misinformation and spouting untruths.

You reputation of speaking first then thinking and actually knowing the facts follows you.

[ANTHONYD]

I never thought I would EVER jump into this fire. Especially on this matter.

I'm with you Bryan.

The Ford sucks theory is getting old. Just like me.

Don't forget, the market for a 20k car is way bigger than the market of people looking to spend 40k for a hatchback.

Ford makes money on the Focus here. Why? because it's a fleet car and they sell no matter what. Grandma doesn't want a 300hp hatchback. It's just not ideal for Ford to burry production oppertunities on a car that makes them so much money to build one that will go over as well as the Focus SVT. I personally think that they went about the SVT all wrong, we'll all agree that if you plan on releasing a high performance pocket rocket, make it count. Boost it, and for god sakes, make it faster than a Neon. As cool as the SVT was, I think we can all agree it could have been done better. (More like the RS)

That's all I'm going to say... *Zipping up flame suit*

[Drivesthebeast]

My Mustang has Traction control, ABS, several airbags, etc. Stability control? It's got that too....it's called modulating the ass end with the right pedal... :lol:

That, and my car will eat just about any Toyota or Honda for breakfast, if I really gave a damn about doing such things...

L8tz

[NefCanuck]

Gonna stick my nose in here (probably get it chopped off too, but I digress :P)

Having owned two Ford products built nearly two decades apart ('86 Ford Taurus, '05 Focus) I can say with certainty that Ford has made significant progress and I think can be counted on to continue to make that progress, if only because their competition will...

One thing that Ford does have to work on is their fuel economy numbers, whether that means that they develop new technologies, or license them from someone else, Fords are still heavy gas users (Esp. the trucks)

The biggest remaining issue that Ford has to deal with now is public perception... I mean remember back in the '80's Ford was still struggling with the image of producing cars that rusted on a dime (There was a reason that some people referred to the Mustang as a "Rustang")

In short, Ford has to produce cars that people want to buy at prices they can afford that don't cost an unreasonable amount to maintain and the world will beat a path to your door. Gimmicks and incentives only get you so far...

NefCanuck

[meford4u]

NefCanuck,Apr 1 2007, 01:02 PM Wrote:Gonna stick my nose in here (probably get it chopped off too, but I digress :P)

Having owned two Ford products built nearly two decades apart ('86 Ford Taurus, '05 Focus) I can say with certainty that Ford has made significant progress and I think can be counted on to continue to make that progress, if only because their competition will...

One thing that Ford does have to work on is their fuel economy numbers, whether that means that they develop new technologies, or license them from someone else, Fords are still heavy gas users (Esp. the trucks)

The biggest remaining issue that Ford has to deal with now is public perception... I mean remember back in the '80's Ford was still struggling with the image of producing cars that rusted on a dime (There was a reason that some people referred to the Mustang as a "Rustang")

In short, Ford has to produce cars that people want to buy at prices they can afford that don't cost an unreasonable amount to maintain and the world will beat a path to your door.  Gimmicks and incentives only get you so far...

NefCanuck
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Now that's constructive criticism. Amen to that.

And with an increase to our order bank at work and the change from a 3 week shutdown to 2 weeks and hearing that trim is increasing production and hours of operation, we are getting busy with the Edge. And the Edge gets decent mileage for the vehicle. Not great, but good.

[ANTHONYD]

meford4u,Apr 1 2007, 02:14 PM Wrote:

NefCanuck,Apr 1 2007, 01:02 PM Wrote:Gonna stick my nose in here (probably get it chopped off too, but I digress :P)

Having owned two Ford products built nearly two decades apart ('86 Ford Taurus, '05 Focus) I can say with certainty that Ford has made significant progress and I think can be counted on to continue to make that progress, if only because their competition will...

One thing that Ford does have to work on is their fuel economy numbers, whether that means that they develop new technologies, or license them from someone else, Fords are still heavy gas users (Esp. the trucks)

The biggest remaining issue that Ford has to deal with now is public perception... I mean remember back in the '80's Ford was still struggling with the image of producing cars that rusted on a dime (There was a reason that some people referred to the Mustang as a "Rustang")

In short, Ford has to produce cars that people want to buy at prices they can afford that don't cost an unreasonable amount to maintain and the world will beat a path to your door.  Gimmicks and incentives only get you so far...

NefCanuck
[right][snapback]232763[/snapback][/right]

Now that's constructive criticism. Amen to that.

And with an increase to our order bank at work and the change from a 3 week shutdown to 2 weeks and hearing that trim is increasing production and hours of operation, we are getting busy with the Edge. And the Edge gets decent mileage for the vehicle. Not great, but good.
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As much as I am NOT a Ford cheerleader, thise 2 posts make a lot of sence.

[Flofocus]

Ford would have to do something pretty crazy to get me to look at any of their cars. Ford aint got anything that would be worth my time.

I remember when the focus was 1st launched...I really liked it. Just like when the WRX came out in 02, I really liked it.

And right now, Ford doesnt have anything that I really like.

[oldeguy]

As a former Ford basher, I once said I wouldn't buy another one, Most of Ford's problems, in my oh so humble opinion, is perception. After driving a 95 Escort into the ground, ( over 400,000 kms), I tried another manufacturer's homegrown product. After two years, I bought a used Focus. Honestly, I seriously wasn't going to buy it, but, after some research, and a small test drive, I bought it. Why wasn't I going to buy it, because I had heard that the Focus had all sorts of recalls and maintenace problems. Granted, in 2000 there were quite a few recalls, but, it was the first year of the NA vehicle, so, there are bound to be some problems. There wasn't anything about the Focus breaking down, or blowing engines or transmissions, like some other domestics. Although I don't like some of Ford's decisions, the Five hundred, the 2nd generation Focus still missing in action, the loss of real exciting vehicles, Mustang excluded, but, I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to buy Ford. Every car company goes through a downturn in fortunes, I just hope that Ford can rediscover their focus on building affordable, relevant vehicles for all of us.

[CanadaSVT]

ondafritz,Mar 30 2007, 04:55 PM Wrote:Now for the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) concern... drive a car with that system in the winter, even with the best snow tires and you will never want to own a car with out it beyond a classic car of course. 

Anyone have any opinions on this?
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I have an opinion. My 4200lb Marauder doesn't have stability control and I don't have a problem with it. When the fun begins, it actually keeps me awake.

[PARKINGLOT]

ondafritz,Mar 30 2007, 05:55 PM Wrote:Now for the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) concern; drive a car with that system in the winter, even with the best snow tires and you will never want to own a car with out it beyond a classic car of course. 
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I do. Buy something AWD, or a 4x4 truck if it's that big a problem. I've never needed some system to help me in winter conditions, short of the little pedal on the right. Even my 2wd truck didn't do too badly, but once you go 4x4, anything else in the winter doesn't come close...

[darkpuppet]

I picked up a focus with stability assist for $31k .. how many of you are willing to fork that kind of money over for a focus?

it's strange too, because people will pay that on other vehicles... but everyone wants fords to be cheap, reliable, and feature packed.. well, you can't have all three..

people complain and want to petition ford to bring over something that they themselves wouldn't even buy... so why keep going down this route.

When ford offers it, nobody buys it...so why would they continue to offer it?

same as the My Colour guages in mustangs. I personally love the feature.. so I paid my extra to get it.

But I'm one of a very few that did, so it's not being offered. I voted with my wallet.. unfortunately, being in the minority doesn't make good business sense.