[Flofocus]

http://www.focaljet.com/ubbthreads/showfla...age=0&fpart=all

[Euro Ford Fan]

Flofocus,Dec 1 2004, 01:03 PM Wrote:http://www.focaljet.com/ubbthreads/showfla...age=0&fpart=all
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Paddle shift sucks flat out. The transmission will never shift quickly enough either up or down to keep you happy. Unless your spending 150K+ you will never get a car with a decent system.

In my IS300 it sucks no fun at all.

[01-yellow-ZX3]

Euro Ford Fan,Dec 1 2004, 12:12 PM Wrote:

Flofocus,Dec 1 2004, 01:03 PM Wrote:http://www.focaljet.com/ubbthreads/showfla...age=0&fpart=all
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Paddle shift sucks flat out. The transmission will never shift quickly enough either up or down to keep you happy. Unless your spending 150K+ you will never get a car with a decent system.

In my IS300 it sucks no fun at all.
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True...unless you're talking Audi TT, thats a different story.

[Flofocus]

or BMW M3 :)

[Euro Ford Fan]

Flofocus,Dec 1 2004, 02:12 PM Wrote:or BMW M3 :)
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Are they really that quick? I guess I would rather do it myself than have a computer drive the car for me. When I took the IS300 lapping this year I found it hard to get my downshift and braking points set on a track that I've got over 250laps on. I found when I was downshifting and braking at the same time I was upsetting the balance of the car to a point where I usually entered the corners already in opposite lock.

CVT, SMG, Automagic, autostick, paddle shift what ever you want to call it.

I would rather just drive myself.

[Flofocus]

Euro Ford Fan,Dec 1 2004, 03:28 PM Wrote:[quote=Flofocus,Dec 1 2004, 02:12 PM]or BMW M3 :)
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I would rather just drive myself.
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Me to. I was just posting this for everyone else to see. I wouldnt waste money on something that would KILL my performance. The Focus lacks enuff in that department. :lol:

[tdot-zx3]

Theres been tons of tests on the bmw system. You CANNOT shift as fast and as accurately as it can.

[darkpuppet]

I have not driven a paddle shift car that I like yet...

of course I haven't driven the lambo or Ferraries.

rules of thumb:
If paddle shifting retains an ATX transmission, it automatically sucks
If paddle shifting retains syncromesh, it's going to suck.

there's no way around it... if you can't do straight dog bone, and rev matching, the paddleshifter is an absolute waste of money.

[2001 ZTS]

I forget what make or model but there is a good one out there. It has some sort of duplication where the next anticipated gear is already "there/clutched in/whatever you want to call it" BEFORE you flick the paddle. In this case it is instant.

EDIT: Found it, not quite instant but 0.3 sec per shift:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/031119.htm

[Euro Ford Fan]

tdot-zx3,Dec 1 2004, 02: Wrote:Theres been tons of tests on the bmw system. You CANNOT shift as fast and as accurately as it can.
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Maybe but leave it to the Germans to kill the driving experience. What does it say about their average customer when more of their cars have auto and auto manual systems?

I can understand with something really high end like a super car having a paddle shift system allows the computer to keep the wealthy owner safe, since it just won't allow the driver to do something really stupid. It's the same as ABS systems.

Ahh the luxury of have a 20 year old car the only computer left in it is the one that I put there and I control everything it does! LOL

[darkpuppet]

I think ferrari and lamborghini both have systems that shift in under 10ms.

if anyone can shift that quickly on their own, let me know...

[boost til'bust]

darkpuppet,Dec 1 2004, 07:41 PM Wrote:I have not driven a paddle shift car that I like yet...

of course I haven't driven the lambo or Ferraries.

rules of thumb:
If paddle shifting retains an ATX transmission, it automatically sucks
If paddle shifting retains syncromesh, it's going to suck.

there's no way around it... if you can't do straight dog bone, and rev matching, the paddleshifter is an absolute waste of money.
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what car did you drive that had paddle shifters?

anything with an atx automatically sucks? why is that?

[Marction]

I've always mentally associated paddle shifting with cars where keeping both hands on the wheel at all times is probably a really good idea (ie. a very powerful car).

It would seem kind of funny on a Focus ^_^

I guess the AutoX guys would love it though?

[01-yellow-ZX3]

tdot-zx3,Dec 1 2004, 01: Wrote:Theres been tons of tests on the bmw system. You CANNOT shift as fast and as accurately as it can.
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Same goes for the Audi DSG (direct shift gearbox) setup.

With the dual clutch design, it out performs the manual tranny, and since theres wayyyy less chance for driver error in a "automatic style of transmission" the times are consistent.

[ZX3TUNING]

the speed of the shift is not as important as the ability to modulate the throttle during the shift.
simple fact
paddle shifters suck because you cannot over or under revmatch your shifts to make the car setup and react differently nor can you modulate the clutch to produce different reactions.

the SMG box in the BMWs sucks, just like all similar systems! might as well be an auto, the computer does all the work and the only diver imput is gas, brake, steering and "bumping" the little stick in the center.

BASE kit paddle shifters that Terry is working on is only going to replace the shifter base, tower and stick allowing you to retain the use of the clutch and keep your hands on the wheel while you shift. optional version add more to the system.

short of going to a full sequential dog-engagement transmission, as i do not believe it to be a attempt at making a SMG styled box, this will be the best short shifter on the market. granted it will basicly be a $1500usd short shifter but for anyone who races, not having you take your hands off the wheel to shift is a great thing.

[tdot-zx3]

Your calling bmw's system junk? Youd be lucky if this aftermarket system is 1/10th the system thats in a bmw.

Its paddle shift by the way, and people have been saying its up there tech wise and speed and control wise with ferrari and alfa romeo systems.

I think its time for you to go and try out the new system in a high end bmw, and maybe then youll know what your talking about a little better.

[01-yellow-ZX3]

Mitch, who cares about throttle modulation etc. when its faster anyways? These new trannys shift quicker and the end result is better times. How could that suck?

And who wants paddle shifters when you still have to use the clutch? That would be retarded. I know thats the idea that company is tossing around that posted on FJ, but I can't see how thats better than the stock current shifting on a stock Focus. Like come on now, its a damn Focus we're talking about. Unless you're rallying it, I can't see the benefit or bang for your buck for a paddle conversion. But thats a whole other story...

I've heard die hard manual transmission guys that swear by shifting their own cars, opt for the new tranny in the Audi TT (manumatic if you will). It still all comes down to preference, but computers and technology are starting to take over this area of the automotive industry.

[Aka]

*choosing not to read everyones post*

I think it's really neat they're making one, however I'd rather shift myself, I like the feel of it, and plus it helps me get out aggression (as bad as that really is).

[Marction]

I know some people will disagree...but sometimes faster just isn't worth it.

Shifting is an integral part of the driving experience for me...I wouldn't give it up for what amounts to maybe a few tenths off at the track ;)

[ZX3TUNING]

Dan,
i didn't say the speed sucked i said the overall enjoyment and engagement of the drive is what sucked.
i have driven the every car in the BMW line up. the M3 SMG and the 645 SMG are nothing to rave about as far as i'm concerned. The Audi TT tranny is even worse, btw! the SMG might be quick but speed of the shift means nothing if it's all automatic. downsifting in the SMG is 100% computer controlled... wow!? where is the fun and skill in that?

"Paddle shifters are like putting your dick in a milking machine - it's more efficient but just not as much fun."

Marction,Dec 1 2004, 09:20 PM Wrote:I know some people will disagree...but sometimes faster just isn't worth it. 

Shifting is an integral part of the driving experience for me...I wouldn't give it up for what amounts to maybe a few tenths off at the track ;)
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couldn't have said it better myself.

the thing i like about terry's system is that it reatins the use of the clutch if you choose and you can set the speed of the shifts to your preference.

what i would really like to see is a high based short shifter that actually completely changes the geometry pf the shifting and puts the shift knob up closer to the steering wheel.