Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Us Auto Bailout: D O A Into The Senate
#1
Rejected: Senate fails to pass Big Three bailout
Dec. 12. 08
Source: Leftlanenews

The United States Senate voted late Thursday evening to reject a $14 billion bailout of the U.S. auto industry. The defeat came at 11:10 p.m. ET after heated debate over various alternative proposals and compromises, all of which failed after initial signs of hope. Votes were 52 in favor and 35 against. 13 Senators did not vote. While the number of yeas was greater than nays, falling short of 60 votes makes the gridlock of a filibuster unavoidable, thus a de facto defeat.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the failure of the bill could mean any effort to rescue the Big Three is dead for the rest of the year. If true, this could mean GM and Chrysler might have to file for bankruptcy in the coming days. Earlier, it was reported that GM hired law firm Weil Gotshal & Manges LP to handle a possible Chapter 11 filing. Days ago, it was revealed Chrysler retained council of Jones Day for the same reason. It now appears the companies are closer than ever to having to enter bankruptcy protection.

Two hours before the vote, it appeared a bipartisan compromise was at hand. An amendment proposed by Republican Senator Bob Corker called for immediate concessions by the UAW, but negotiations fell apart at the last minute. The plan called for the immediate elimination of the UAW Job Bank, plus significant compensation reductions for all workers.

Reid said he was “terribly disappointed” the alternative proposal never came together. Instead, the Senate had to vote on the original $14 billion proposal passed by the House earlier this week.

Democrats are now calling on Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to tap into the $700 billion TARP fund to help the Detroit Three. Some Senators argue the majority 52% vote — though below the filibuster-proof threshold of 60% — should serve as a message to Paulson that he must act. So far, though, Paulson has been unwilling to use funds from the Wall Street rescue program.

I was the only member on this board with a Yellow Focus Sedan, and a 2002+ Euro Facelift on a sedan.
Reply
#2
I shoulda bought a chrysler... would have been a collector's item in a few years.
Contribute to focuscanada.net's future!

Donations of $20 and over get a custom title!







Reply
#3
I'm now even happier that I drive a Ford.

:)
Daily driver 1: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport "S"

33" BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s, lots of Rough Country gear - bumper, 2.5" lift, swaybar disconnects, Superwinch 10,000lb winch, Detroit Locker in rear D44 axle, custom exhaust, K+N filtercharger, Superchips-tuned.

Daily driver 2: 2006 Subaru Legacy GT

COBB Stage 1+ package - AccessPort tuner, COBB intake and airbox. Stage 2 coming shortly - COBB 3" AT stainless DP and race cat, custom 3" Magnaflow-based exhaust and Stage 2 COBB tune.
Reply
#4
darkpuppet,Dec 12 2008, 09:24 AM Wrote:I shoulda bought a chrysler... would have been a collector's item in a few years.
[right][snapback]278110[/snapback][/right]
Trash collector, unless it's a Viper
Proud member of the CDan nation.
2000 White ZTS: retired
2012 Frosted Glass SEL: active
K&N Filter.....
Reply
#5
oldeguy,Dec 12 2008, 10:03 AM Wrote:
darkpuppet,Dec 12 2008, 09:24 AM Wrote:I shoulda bought a chrysler... would have been a collector's item in a few years.
[right][snapback]278110[/snapback][/right]
Trash collector, unless it's a Viper
[right][snapback]278113[/snapback][/right]
Viper won't be owned by Chrysler anyway. The car shares no parts with any other Chrysler.

I'm surprised the deal hasn't been done yet to sell it to saleen
'05 Grand Cherokee LTD Hemi

'02 black ZX5 ****currently on jack stands my parents garage missing a transmission****
--FC/OBX 4-2-1 Race Header--FS Flex--MBRP catback exhaust--AEM CAI--Brembo Brakes with Hawk HPS pads--Toucan(ractive) 9mm Plug wires--FC Plug wire cover--Polished aluminum Ractive Strut Bar
Not installed: FK 60/40 Springs
Reply
#6
ZX5focused,Dec 12 2008, 12:37 PM Wrote:Viper won't be owned by Chrysler anyway. The car shares no parts with any other Chrysler.

I'm surprised the deal hasn't been done yet to sell it to saleen
[right][snapback]278120[/snapback][/right]

I thought the SRT10 Ram had the same engine.
Sold:2001 SE 2.0L SPI w/60mm TB, Steeda Shorty Intake.

Active: 2007 SES Hatch, Motegi MR7 Rims with 215/45ZR17 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires, debadged, black painted calipers and drums, RS Knob, CFM Short Throw, Billet E-Brake, CFM Focus pedals, MBRP Exhaust, XCal2, FS Front and Rear Strut Tower Bars, Diamond Plate Floor Mats and Sills, Alpine MP3 Deck, Alpine V-Power 300w Amp, Pioneer IMPP Sub, AlpineType-S door speakers, VF Engineering Rear Motor Mount, F2 RS Spoiler, Tokico D-spec shocks, HTP Cross Brace, EBC Rotors, Hawk HPS Pads, Russell SS Brake Lines, RS Wheel, SVT Blue Seats, Vibrant 2.5" Race Highflow Cat, CFM UDP. Rear SVT bumper to come.

Active: 2005 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited TJ [LJ], Volant CAI, 32" BFG Mud Terrains, and a whole bunch of goodies. Big Grin
Reply
#7
It appears Leftlanenews knows nothing about U.S. politics and how these things never go through right away, just look at how many times they voted on the $$ for the financial idiots before it was approved.

Wait until mid next week, then the fat lady may need to be hauled out.
Old enough to know me limit, yet young enough to exceed it.
Reply
#8
So CAW is suggesting to toughing up the emission requirements so more people are forced to buy new vehicles hence it would save the auto industry.

what are these guys smoking?
"Coming together is a beginning, staying together is progress, and working together is success."
--Henry Ford


00 Focus ZX3 Silver- Sold
01 Focus ZX3 Green- Sold
01 Focus ZTS Red- Sold
03 Focus ZTW Green Sold
04 Escape LTD Silver- Sold
05 Freestyle LTD Black-Sold
02 Honda CRV EX-L-Sold
02 VW Jetta GLS TDI Silver-Sold

11 VW Jetta TDI 6spd Mine Smile
10 VW Golf Highline DSG- wrote off Sad


Reply
#9
I really hope that Big 3 doesn't get any bail out assistance at all. Right now they need to fail with their current structure and have to rebuild to become more efficient to compete with other companies. The sad thing is that it is happening during a financial meltdown/recession so there is going to be a lot of complaining.
'03 Focus SVT
Reply
#10
Ford's in the best shape of the three, but they're not out of the woods by far.

I agree that the entire company, at least in Chrysler's case, needs to be overhauled.

Not even going to start on the Canadian guys (trying to not crack on some of our fellow members here), but when Toyota and other US-based manufacturing plants pay far less to their workers and yet their products have better overall quality and reliability... that says something. The fact that a Toyota line worker also makes 20-25 less an hour at least also tells you something - they're not starving!!!

It's called living within your means and something tells me that the US Big 3 employees who barely "live" off 70+ dollars an hour are in for a rude awakening.
Daily driver 1: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport "S"

33" BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s, lots of Rough Country gear - bumper, 2.5" lift, swaybar disconnects, Superwinch 10,000lb winch, Detroit Locker in rear D44 axle, custom exhaust, K+N filtercharger, Superchips-tuned.

Daily driver 2: 2006 Subaru Legacy GT

COBB Stage 1+ package - AccessPort tuner, COBB intake and airbox. Stage 2 coming shortly - COBB 3" AT stainless DP and race cat, custom 3" Magnaflow-based exhaust and Stage 2 COBB tune.
Reply
#11
NOS2Go4Me,Dec 12 2008, 03:04 PM Wrote:Ford's in the best shape of the three, but they're not out of the woods by far.

I agree that the entire company, at least in Chrysler's case, needs to be overhauled.

Not even going to start on the Canadian guys (trying to not crack on some of our fellow members here), but when Toyota and other US-based manufacturing plants pay far less to their workers and yet their products have better overall quality and reliability... that says something. The fact that a Toyota line worker also makes 20-25 less an hour at least also tells you something - they're not starving!!!

It's called living within your means and something tells me that the US Big 3 employees who barely "live" off 70+ dollars an hour are in for a rude awakening.
[right][snapback]278137[/snapback][/right]
This isn't to disagree with you, but to clarify the info you're relying on ... the $70 + per hour figure as widely reported INCLUDES the cost of providing benefits to retirees - extrapolated back to the hourly rate ... so although it costs GM etc $73 "an hour" to produce a vehicle, that isn't what they pay their active workers ... you're right to the extent that non-union workers seem to be making a decent living and decent benefits without the power of the union, but their hourly rate isn't much different than what active CAW / UAW workers get.
2008 Fusion SEL MTX - DD1 * 2009 Fusion SEL - DD2 * 2007 Focus ZXW - R*I*P * 2004 Focus ZTW CD Silver - sold * 2004 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2003 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2001 Focus ZTW Gold - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Black - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Gold R*I*P

2003 Focus ZX5 infra-red Track Rat - R*I*P
2003 ZX5 CD Silver Track Rat - retired, but still in the driveway


New track rat: 2000 ZX3, Atlantic Blue * JRSC with lots more to come

* New Zetec crate motor - NFG - thanks Topspeed *
Reply
#12
Considering that getting concessions out of the UAW appears to have come completely out of left field I'm not surprised that "things done blow'd up real good"

Unless I was hiding under a rock these past few weeks I had never heard anything the Detriot 3 had not made any pitches to the UAW for concessions and for the government to come riding in at the last minute with these demands and tying them to the funding is unconsonable <_<

NefCanuck
Reply
#13
Just to clarify the $70/hour misconception and many others Joe Public has had shoved down their throats by the media, politicians, and many other ignorant sources:
Read all of this and some may be able to tell others they learned something today....

http://www.local707caw.ca/29%20crucial%20T...know%20auto.pdf
Old enough to know me limit, yet young enough to exceed it.
Reply
#14
Fact 14 is slightly wrong in that the Bank of Canada does not lead money directly to the Automakers. They are the bank of last resort and only really deal with the 5 major chartered banks in Canada.

Fact 16, the fact that the workers 'only' get paid $35 an hour from the point of view of the firm is wrong, the firm will calculate costs on the total hourly wage on their financial statements because that is the true cost of labour. The media is the media, and mostly like go from the firms point of view for most things.
'03 Focus SVT
Reply
#15
My ass the media has all the facts.

Fact #1 We have a contract. A contract that was settled early here in Canada at the request and insitance of the Big 3. The government approached the UAW for concessions, which they were willing to give, under a new contract that the big 3 were not willing to negotiate now in the US. It failed because no one knows what is going to happen and when.
Fact #2 US automakers pay their employees that are unionized $27.85 US per hour on average. The non-unionized empoyees make $23.80 on average. Where the difference in costs lie is the non-unionized employees don't have retirement cost as of yet because many of the Japanese carmakers force their employees out before the 10 years of service gives them a pension. Also, many of the Japanese automakers haven't been in NA iassmebling product for 10 years and don't have to concrn themselves with pension costs just yet. So it's not really a fair comparison.

Are we at the plant willing to chop our wages, by say 10-15%. I would say yes. Are we willing to keep our wages frozen when the Big 3 start making profits again(as Ford has clearly stated they will be a profitable company come 2011 with or without assistance). f*** NO. We are willing to help but when the cash starts flowing we want our wages reinstated and then some.
TEAM PITA Don't settle for a wannabe, only accept the real deal.

One day I will rule the world. For now, I have to settle for this place.
Reply
#16
i have a bit of input on the import wages compared to domestic. meford stated "Fact #2 US automakers pay their employees that are unionized $27.85 US per hour on average. The non-unionized empoyees make $23.80 on average. Where the difference in costs lie is the non-unionized employees don't have retirement cost as of yet because many of the Japanese carmakers force their employees out before the 10 years of service gives them a pension."

well i live 5 minutes from the toyota plant in cambridge. i know people who work there, they START at $28.50/hr and a year ago started at $30.25. so for the people saying import auto makers pay less and have higher quality, they need to get their facts straightened out. the reason why they can till afford things is because they also have their plants outside N/A which pay in peanuts by comparison and operating costs are far less.
2007 ZX4 2.0l unaturally aspirated
FSwerks stage 2 Turbo kit, Cosworth Intake Manifold, 3" custom HKS turbo back
regular stage 2 @10ps : 232whp/219wtq
stage 2 plus @ 13psi: 278whp/229wtq
Stage 2 plus @15psi: 296whp/240wtq

2013 Focus ST Tuxedo Black - The daily
Reply
#17
GFXjamie,Dec 13 2008, 01:50 AM Wrote:well i live 5 minutes from the toyota plant in cambridge. i know people who work there, they START at $28.50/hr and a year ago started at $30.25. so for the people saying import auto makers pay less and have higher quality, they need to get their facts straightened out. the reason why they can till afford things is because they also have their plants outside N/A which pay in peanuts by comparison and operating costs are far less.
[right][snapback]278179[/snapback][/right]

How many people do you know that have retired from Toyota?
Old enough to know me limit, yet young enough to exceed it.
Reply
#18
CanadaSVT,Dec 16 2008, 10:51 AM Wrote:
GFXjamie,Dec 13 2008, 01:50 AM Wrote:well i live 5 minutes from the toyota plant in cambridge. i know people who work there, they START at $28.50/hr and a year ago started at $30.25. so for the people saying import auto makers pay less and have higher quality, they need to get their facts straightened out. the reason why they can till afford things is because they also have their plants outside N/A which pay in peanuts by comparison and operating costs are far less.
[right][snapback]278179[/snapback][/right]

How many people do you know that have retired from Toyota?
[right][snapback]278316[/snapback][/right]


That's the answer I expected!

Old enough to know me limit, yet young enough to exceed it.
Reply
#19
Even Jeremy Cato of the Globe & Mail understands the $70/hour crock:

Article
Old enough to know me limit, yet young enough to exceed it.
Reply
#20
sry havent been paying attention to this thread. incase u dont know, i am younger and dont tend to be friends with retiree's. also, the plant here hasnt been around long enough to of had ppl retire. i can see the point you are getting across. but the thing is, import auto makers are paying just as much as domestics. the problem with the domestics is the union /thread
2007 ZX4 2.0l unaturally aspirated
FSwerks stage 2 Turbo kit, Cosworth Intake Manifold, 3" custom HKS turbo back
regular stage 2 @10ps : 232whp/219wtq
stage 2 plus @ 13psi: 278whp/229wtq
Stage 2 plus @15psi: 296whp/240wtq

2013 Focus ST Tuxedo Black - The daily
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)