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Ford takes Chryslerââ¬â¢s side, opposes GM-CAW deal.
3-13-9
Source: Leftlanenews
Ford Motor Company, agreeing with statements made yesterday by Chrysler, says that a deal struck earlier this with with the Canadian Auto Workers union doesnââ¬â¢t go far enough to save the automakers enough money. All three automakers have been forced to seek concessions from their unions to survive the market downturn.
ââ¬ÅWe believe the recently negotiated agreement between General Motors Canada and the Canadian Auto Workers will not keep Fordââ¬â¢s Canadian operations competitive in todayââ¬â¢s global economy,ââ¬Â Joe Hinrichs, Ford group vice president for global manufacturing and labor affairs, said in a statement.
Ford has already reached a deal with the United Auto Workers in the United States that forces much higher concessions on its plant workers than the GM-CAW deal, which freezes wages, cuts paid time off and shifts some health care costs to employees.
Average wages at Ford plants in Canada are about $55.12 per hour, according to Automotive Newsââ¬â¢ research. The UAW will cut its average hourly wages in the United States to $50 by 2011 as part of the concessions, which also close the controversial, costly jobs bank.
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holy crap? I didn't know workers at the car plants make an average of $55.12/hr!!!!
That's freakin $9000/month!! or $105K per year!!
Why don't they accept lower wages say...$45/hr versus the alternative option....getting laid off due to plant closure!
Sorry if im over reacting here but that's a ridiculous amount of money to make....i don't even think lawyers make that much money.
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We don't make 55.12/hour. Don't believe everything you hear.
We do make about $33/hour.
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sure the average is $55/hr, but it's all the management that needs trimming that boosts that average.
The average line worker shouldn't have to suffer any more for management bloat.
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Just a small note regarding labour costs. During any labour negotiations, management will release information to the media, informing the public of what the total labour cost is per union member, including all wages, benefit and pension costs, not just the worker's wage. It would be curious to see how much an average management or office worker makes, using the same formula
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Wages for office workers are usually about $18-20.00 per hour for some of the 3-4 year experience office workers, non-supervisory. Add burdens (WSIB, benefits, life insurance) of about 30% and they make about 26.00 per hour.
Most supervisory management make somewhere from $30-50 per hour including burdens.
So yeah, I still think the unions are getting a VERY good pay compared to the rest of us. Mind you, how much does the average person have to pay for union dues? I'm not sure about that but would like to know.
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meford4u,Mar 13 2009, 08:23 PM Wrote:We don't make 55.12/hour. Don't believe everything you hear.
We do make about $33/hour.
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and your union is complaining you can't live on less than $68k a year.
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FocusGuy7476,Mar 13 2009, 07:07 PM Wrote:meford4u,Mar 13 2009, 08:23 PM Wrote:We don't make 55.12/hour.ÃÂ Don't believe everything you hear.
We do make about $33/hour.
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and your union is complaining you can't live on less than $68k a year.
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You need that kind of pay to "Buy North American!" :o :rolleyes:
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03-14-2009, 09:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2009, 09:30 AM by Canadian ST.)
FocusGuy7476,Mar 13 2009, 07:07 PM Wrote:meford4u,Mar 13 2009, 08:23 PM Wrote:We don't make 55.12/hour.ÃÂ Don't believe everything you hear.
We do make about $33/hour.
[right][snapback]282630[/snapback][/right]
and your union is complaining you can't live on less than $68k a year.
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Well I donââ¬â¢t work for the CAW but I would consider any position on the line to be at the very least skilled labor. These jobs are not as easy as everyone thinks they are, I am sure there are some gravy positions, but every company has those.
As for wages, they are willing to take a pay decrease until things get better.
Also when you make a certain wage you spend a certain amount of money (mortgage cars, kids going to University ..etc). You become accustomed to that "life style" The more you make the more you spend.
PS I doubt that $33 is the starting wage, the longer you work somewhere the more experience you get, therefore the more money you make.
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Canadian ST,Mar 13 2009, 06:20 PM Wrote:FocusGuy7476,Mar 13 2009, 07:07 PM Wrote:meford4u,Mar 13 2009, 08:23 PM Wrote:We don't make 55.12/hour.ÃÂ Don't believe everything you hear.
We do make about $33/hour.
[right][snapback]282630[/snapback][/right]
and your union is complaining you can't live on less than $68k a year.
[right][snapback]282645[/snapback][/right]
Well I donââ¬â¢t work for the CAW but I would consider any position on the line to be at the very least skilled labor. These jobs are not as easy as everyone thinks they are, I am sure there are some gravy positions, but every company has those.
As for wages, they are willing to take a pay decrease until things get better.
Also when you make a certain wage you spend a certain amount of money (mortgage cars, kids going to University ..etc). You become accustomed to that "life style" The more you make the more you spend.
PS I doubt that $33 is the starting wage, the longer you work somewhere the more experience you get, therefore the more money you make.
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Isn't the $55.12/hr an all incumbent number that includes the average of health care, pensions, and wages? Thats where that number comes from. GM's was previously $70/hr because of so many pensioners
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meford4u,Mar 13 2009, 04:23 PM Wrote:We don't make 55.12/hour. Don't believe everything you hear.
We do make about $33/hour.
[right][snapback]282630[/snapback][/right]
But do you pay, as a taxable benefit or out of your gross pay, for your benefits (dental, LTD / Life Insurance, prescription drugs, etc) or are they part of that $55 figure?
If you're not seeing deductions for your benefits on your pay stub, then there's a rate that the company is covering, on your behalf, and that counts as a wage. You'd be paying for it, otherwise. Same for pensions into a DCPP or the other kind... can't remember the acronym.
If you're not paying for it out of your gross pay, it's a wage / benefit / cost to the company that can be factored in as part of an hourly wage.
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NOS........we don't pay for our benefits off our paycheck. Nor do you so stick that point up your NB>
Ashabib........it is an all incumbent number. But what most of you don't know is that to get the figure Ford throws out of $70/hour, you have to include the salaried personell that supervise us and are non-unionized. Apparently they make up our wages. So the last time we asked to have them removed from the floor as we can handle and supervise ourselves. Save Ford a few bucks. They declined our offer. Yep. BS.
Canadian ST..........Exactly. You live within your means. What most people don't get is this will have a trickle down affect on all of you. Other unions won't get pay raises because of the widespread media atttention we are receiving. Hey, the CAW took a pay cut/freeze, you can do the same. We also won't have the extra $$$ to spend doing the extra activites that help boost economies. I thought that was what this package was all about.
Focusguy...when the price of a house in Toronto, the taxes we pay on our homes the cost of overall living in Toronto is the same in Saskatchewan, then I'll take a pay cut. That's the argument the government comes up with all the time. Bring the unionized workers in line with the non-unionized workers. Okay. Fine with us. The workers in Cambridge make $1/hour less than we do. No problem. But the government wants a pay cut to equal workers in Mississippi where taxes are 65% lower than in Ontario, and the cost of a home is less than $50,000 and the overall cost of living is almost 35% cheaper. How can you compare our wages to that? If you lived here, you would understand that any wage under $50k is just getting by. And you would not be owning a home. But you could afford a Focus. A used Focus.
Oscar.......you live in NB where the average cost of a home is half of what it is in TO. The average office worker in NB might make $18-20/hour in NB, but in TO you make $25-28/hour.
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03-16-2009, 09:15 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2009, 09:51 PM by NOS2Go4Me.)
Meford - I certainly DO pay for my benefits via Great West Life. So does everyone else here that is eligible for the plans. Sure, the company may well pay for some of it but I definitely pay some each pay for dental, LTD and additional life insurance. So YOU can stick your OVERPAID UNION WORKER benefits up your lubed union keister.
I'm scanning my paystub tonight to show just that. Are you willing to do the same? You're welcome to redact the juicy stuff, obviously. We already hear long and hard how much CAW workers make.
A lot of people pay for their benefits. It's called a little expenditure for a lot of coverage. Those who don't pay for their benefits out of their gross pay are called union workers, apparently.
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NOS2Go4Me,Mar 16 2009, 06:15 AM Wrote:Meford - I certainly DO pay for my benefits via Great West Life. So does everyone else here that is eligible for the plans. Sure, the company may well pay for some of it but I definitely pay some each pay for dental, LTD and additional life insurance. So YOU can stick your OVERPAID UNION WORKER benefits up your lubed union keister.
I'm scanning my paystub tonight to show just that. Are you willing to do the same? You're welcome to redact the juicy stuff, obviously. We already hear long and hard how much CAW workers make.
A lot of people pay for their benefits. It's called a little expenditure for a lot of coverage. Those who don't pay for their benefits out of their gross pay are called union workers, apparently.
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We pay(and have for years) additional life insurance. Don't pay for dental, but that's the slight difference between our plan and yours and your getting all hyped up about that BS? C'mon, present an argument where you atleast have a fighting chance.
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cornflakes,Mar 13 2009, 04:07 PM Wrote:Sorry if im over reacting here but that's a ridiculous amount of money to make....i don't even think lawyers make that much money.
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Laywers make a lot more.
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03-16-2009, 11:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2009, 11:47 PM by Canadian ST.)
^^Even in 3rd world countries laywers make more then that.
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Flofocus,Mar 16 2009, 08:19 AM Wrote:cornflakes,Mar 13 2009, 04:07 PM Wrote:Sorry if im over reacting here but that's a ridiculous amount of money to make....i don't even think lawyers make that much money.
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Laywers make a lot more.
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Sorry to be contradictory Flo, but not all lawyers make the big bucks, hell, some of us even have a co-pay on our benefits.
Tarring everyone with the same brush, IE: union workers = overpaid/shiftless/whatever does nothing to deal with the root cause of the issue.
Which at the start of all this was Chrysler management threatening to take their ball and go home while holding the threat of taking away all the employment, union & otherwise over the government's head like a scythe <_<
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03-16-2009, 11:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2009, 11:57 PM by Flofocus.)
NefCanuck,Mar 16 2009, 09:47 AM Wrote:Flofocus,Mar 16 2009, 08:19 AM Wrote:cornflakes,Mar 13 2009, 04:07 PM Wrote:Sorry if im over reacting here but that's a ridiculous amount of money to make....i don't even think lawyers make that much money.
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Laywers make a lot more.
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Sorry to be contradictory Flo,[right][snapback]282753[/snapback][/right]
Sorry, should of said most lawyers makre more....anyways, there overpaid for what they do. The person I dealth with the least for my house, was my lawyer, and he charged the most (close to a $1000 over my agent's commision) . I spent a total whopping 15 minutes talking to my lawyer, got fawked in the ass, and then never heard from him again. Wish i had his job. :rolleyes:
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Flofocus,Mar 16 2009, 08:56 AM Wrote:NefCanuck,Mar 16 2009, 09:47 AM Wrote:Flofocus,Mar 16 2009, 08:19 AM Wrote:cornflakes,Mar 13 2009, 04:07 PM Wrote:Sorry if im over reacting here but that's a ridiculous amount of money to make....i don't even think lawyers make that much money.
[right][snapback]282626[/snapback][/right]
Laywers make a lot more.
[right][snapback]282751[/snapback][/right]
Sorry to be contradictory Flo,[right][snapback]282753[/snapback][/right]
Sorry, should of said most lawyers makre more....anyways, there overpaid for what they do. The person I dealth with the least for my house, was my lawyer, and he charged the most (close to a $1000 over my agent's commision) . I spent a total whopping 15 minutes talking to my lawyer, got fawked in the ass, and then never heard from him again. Wish i had his job. :rolleyes:
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Thing is Flo, real estate lawyers don't look like they do much for the money that they are paid (and in truth the physical labour part is almost nil now with eletronic land title registry) but they pay a hellacious amount of insurance in case they get, to use your term " fawked in the ass" by their clients on the deal.
Of course all the rest of us get torqued on insurance too when they get screwed (or screw over others, clients and other lawyers alike <_<) but it's all a part of the system :ph34r:
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why is it that anytime there is a thread about ppl making good money guys from sh!ty a$$ towns b!tch. If somebody would offer you good money I'm sure you would take it..
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