[StreetEdition]

ethanol scam

[paolo]

thats b.s.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Actually, Ethanol is a proven destroyer of fuel system components. For all the "good" we do in using it, which is either negligible or nil, we do more harm to our cars in the process.

I read that exact article earlier this morning. Good post. :)

[Focus man. Focus.]

Good post, even better read. The world food shortage can now be blamed on make bad fuel. For all the good it was supposed to do, it seems to be costing the end user dearly.

[OAC_Sparky]

I've been saying for years that reduced output from watered- ethanoled-down gas offsets any gain you might want because you burn more to get the same result.

Anyone who buys gasoline on both sides of the US-Canadian border knows that you get at least 50km more per tank from US gas because their gas isn't at diluted with ethanol.

And the whole "winter gas" BS is just that, go to Canadian Tire and buy a liter of methyl hydrate for $1.50 and you're set for the whole winter (that's all that gasline antifreeze is, just in a fancy bottle). Just put a few ounces in per tank and you're good.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Good post, Sparky! I didn't know that about the methyl hydrate.

[NefCanuck]

Funny thing is, I noticed it right away when I first bought the Fusion last year that the car ran like crap on gas with any ethanol in it (No power and the mileage was abysmal)

After the first month of that I only ran it on 91 since then and the car runs like I expect it to and this was even before the upgrades <_<

(The fact that the owners manual for the Fusion specifically says that E85 is verboten should have clued me in that any ethanol in the gas was likely to cause issues)

NefCanuck

[Scorcher000]

my book says the same thing to. It will cause damage to the cat lol.

[dBlast]

Sunoco 94 contains up to 10% ethanol.

Is that why my gas milage went down?

Is ethanol bad for O2 sensors as well?

[ZTWsquared]

dBlast,May 26 2009, 08:49 PM Wrote:Sunoco 94 contains up to 10% ethanol.

Is that why my gas milage went down?

Is ethanol bad for O2 sensors as well?
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I tried Sunoco 94 with my XCal 94 tune once and it drove like crap relatively speaking.

I originally blamed the tune ... perhaps it was the addition of the ethanol the car didn't like.

I haven't tried the 94 in the Fusion yet and now don't plan to ... I'll be replacing the 94 tune with a 91 tune for CAI ... yes Daniel I bit the bullet today and ordered the Steeda CAI with removable insert - Steeda says it's worth 8 hp and 10tq with the insert, and even more with the insert removed and a tune. We shall see.

[NefCanuck]

ZTWsquared,May 26 2009, 08:29 PM Wrote:I haven't tried the 94 in the Fusion yet and now don't plan to ... I'll be replacing the 94 tune with a 91 tune for CAI ... yes Daniel I bit the bullet today and ordered the Steeda CAI with removable insert - Steeda says it's worth 8 hp and 10tq with the insert, and even more with the insert removed and a tune. We shall see.
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Good luck Ken, just watch the installation details, in my case some steps weren't needed (or even possible) as the instructions refer to a "2005 Fusion V6" :rolleyes: )

When you get it set up we'll have to hit a drag strip and see what your car will do once unleashed :lol:

NefCanuck

[darkpuppet]

Sure ethanol has it's drawbacks.... there's not much net good in it IMO, but ethanol isn't purely evil either.

Engineers had to engineer fuel systems that wouldn't be eaten by the gasoline that's in them -- so what's so difficult in designing systems that'll run on ethanol?

It can be done...and has been done -- I'm pretty sure there's a solution for long term storage of ethanol and it's propensity of bonding with moisture (a sealed system could likely help with that).

In the end, it may not be the be-all-end-all of fuels, but it does work as a fuel. Hell, when tuned for ethanol (and not strictly gas), you can get amazing performance... the boys at koeniggseg found an extra 200HP by running pure ethanol.

I think most of the problems arise from trying to shoehorn ethanol into a gas-centric market.

[darkpuppet]

ZTWsquared,May 26 2009, 09:29 PM Wrote:I tried Sunoco 94 with my XCal 94 tune once and it drove like crap relatively speaking.

I originally blamed the tune ... perhaps it was the addition of the ethanol the car didn't like.

I haven't tried the 94 in the Fusion yet and now don't plan to ... I'll be replacing the 94 tune with a 91 tune for CAI ... yes Daniel I bit the bullet today and ordered the Steeda CAI with removable insert - Steeda says it's worth 8 hp and 10tq with the insert, and even more with the insert removed and a tune. We shall see.
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Unfortunately, there's a lot of variables in effect that could have affected your performance.

The thing with ethanol is that it burns slower, and at a stoichiometric ratio of 9:1 whereas gasoline burns at 14.7:1, which means alcohol burns richer, but effectively leans your running mixture since you're running a/f ratios meant for gas.

And if you're running lean(er), combustion temps can increase, affecting your knock sensor, etc., etc., etc.

So consider your car needs to 'learn' or be tuned correctly and then consider that the fuel could have been stored in the sunoco tanks for ages and bonded with moisture, separated, etc... , there's plenty of reasons why your car could have been running less efficiently that day.

[edit]a good read on the disadvantages of alcohol as fuel can be found here

[/edit]

[NefCanuck]

Reading your last two posts DP and it leads me to thinking (smell the wood burning?) but wouldn't Ford'sd new capless fuel system go a long way twoards achieving a closed system that would benefit ethanol enhanced fuels?

I ask this because I know and have seen small amounts of moisture get into fuel systems in that brief period when the fuel system cap is off, the amounts are normally so tiny that it really doesn't affect pure gasoline, but given the ethanol now in the mix :unsure:)

NefCanuck