[NikiterZTS]

So anybody else heard about it today? One lawyer i know told me about this around 2 weeks ago but since i never heard anything on the radio or tv i never thought anything of his statement.

First article:

"A newly enacted provincial law that targets dangerous drivers has been ruled unconstitutional.

Ontario’s street racing and stunt driving legislation carries a possible prison sentence, but gives the accused limited grounds for defence, a Napanee judge found.

Ontario Court of Justice Judge G J Griffin made the decision Friday.

However, that doesn’t mean cops will stop handing out tickets.

“From what I understand of that legislation, it was just on that individual case,” OPP Sgt. Dave Woodford explained Wednesday on Breakfast Television.

“We’re still enforcing it.”

In a weekend safety blitz, the Ontario Provincial Police found over 7000 infractions on our highways.

That included 133 impaired driving charges, 7193 speeding charges and 10 of the controversial stunt driving charges.

“Under the stunt driving and street racing legislation there are a lot of different definitions and one of them is going more than 50 kilometres an hour over the posted speed limit.

“That’s the portion of it that we mainly deal with on the highways, but there are others, like going through intersections,” Woodford added.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laying Down The Law
What does the new law against street racing and stunt driving call for? Here's the list:

-The minimum fine is $2,000 while the maximum is $10,000 after a conviction, the highest penalty in Canada.

-Police can issue an immediate seven-day driver's licence suspension and seven-day vehicle impoundment for street racing, participating in a driving contest or stunt driving.

-Courts can impose a driver licence suspension of up to 10 years for a second conviction, if the second conviction occurs within 10 years of the first.

-For a first conviction, the maximum licence suspension period remains at 2 years.

-The definition of a "driving stunt" includes driving a motor vehicle at 50 km/h or more above the posted speed limit.

-The Act also bans driving a motor vehicle on a highway with a connected nitrous oxide system. Some street racers use nitrous oxide to enhance the acceleration capabilities of their vehicles."

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/new...-to-lay-charges



Second article:

"An Ontario judge has ruled that a section of the province's stunt driving law is unconstitutional because it exposes an extreme speeder to a possible jail term, without any ability to defend against it.

The law applies to anyone driving 50 kilometres per hour above the speed limit.

In a ruling delivered Friday in a Napanee courthouse, Justice Geoffrey J. Griffin said someone who is speeding that much cannot advance a "due diligence" defence, and is therefore exposed to a jail term that contravenes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

He said there is no issue with the validity of the law's other penalties - automatic driver suspension, immediate impoundments of the vehicle or a minimum fine of $2,000. "The only issue is the possibility of imprisonment for up to six months for an ‘absolute liability'," which is an offence that, once proven by the facts, cannot be defended against.

The decision came in the case of an Oakville grandmother who was found guilty of stunt driving for going more than 50 kilometres above the posted limit while passing a tractor trailer.

Jane Raham, 62, appealed the case to the Ontario Court of Justice, where her lawyer Brian Starkman succeeded in arguing that someone who is speeding 50 kilometres above the limit surely knows it, making it impossible for an accused to argue that he or she took steps to prevent it.

"The way the section is structured a person charged with this offence has no reasonable means by which they can defend themselves," Mr. Starkman said in an interview. It is not known if the Crown intends to appeal the decision.

In 2007 the Ontario government enacted strict new rules under The Highway Traffic Act that prohibit racing or stunts, defined as a number of behaviours including driving with the intention of lifting wheels off the ground or speeding 50 kilometres over the limit.

Ontario Provincial Police Sergeant Dave Woodford said the ruling has no impact on how police will enforce the law. "It's an individual case," he said. "We're going to still be enforcing the stunt driving legislation, and people will still lose their licence and have their vehicle impounded for the seven days. [It's] business as usual." He said that there has been a "significant reduction" in fatalities on the roads since the legislation came into effect. "Speeding is the number one cause of a lot of our fatal collisions," he said.

According to court transcripts, Ms. Raham was driving an Audi from Kanata, where her daughter had recently given birth to twins, to her home in Oakville on April 28, 2008, when she sped up on Highway 7 to pass a tractor trailer. She was clocked at 131 kilometres an hour in an 80 kilometre zone. She slowed down afterwards to a 110 speed. The judge noted that the police officer testified "that there was nothing unsafe or remarkable about Ms. Raham's lane change, and that the only evidence pertaining to the charge was the speed as indicated on the measuring device." Ms. Raham testified that she usually drives on the less-traveled highway in order to avoid big trucks because they make her uncomfortable.

"If one were asked to describe a stunt driver, the appellant would not immediately spring to mind," Justice Griffin said. He acquitted her of the charges."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1976215

[Dimitri]

It's been all over the news today, one of the main stories involved was with an older lady who got caught doing 50 over trying to pass a 18 wheel rig.

They will be more stories popping up in the news about the difference of speeding excessively and stunt driving.

I'm sure they'll "re-word" this law and keep the same punishments.

People will fight it and say "If I were speeding, how was I stunting, if I was the ONLY vehicle involved, was I racing against myself?"

[NikiterZTS]

Dimitri,Sep 9 2009, 05:38 PM Wrote:It's been all over the news today, one of the main stories involved was with an older lady who got caught doing 50 over trying to pass a 18 wheel rig.

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That's what the second article says that I have posted.


Funny how this stuff started popping out right after A.G. did a hit and run. :rolleyes:
Irony?

[Flofocus]

He didnt do a hit and run though.

[NikiterZTS]

Flofocus,Sep 10 2009, 07:42 AM Wrote:He didnt do a hit and run though.
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aah yeah true true.....

By the looks of it he's gonna get a slap on the hand since the biker wasn't the best person either.

[NikiterZTS]

Update:

Anyone read the grandmothers comments to reporters? They are rediculous. She says she agrees with the 50 over law and that their vehicle be seized with large penalties applied - HOWEVER, she wasnt driving erratically (I guess 50km/h over the limit is considered normal behaviour?) so it shouldnt be applied in her case. Her reason for speeding by the way is that she didnt like being in trucks blind spots and she feared for her safety... what some articles mention and others dont is that she was on a ONE LANE ROAD and the truck was already doing 10 over the limit. She had to move into oncoming traffics lane to pass.


"Quote:
She said she feels stunt driving means someone is driving recklessly on the highway and causing danger to other people. "I believe the police should take those people off the road, impound their car and give them a stiff penalty," she said.

[ZX3_2NV]

I've been saying that the name of this law has been wrong from the start even before the came up with stunting it was allways called Racing. IT'S NOT RACING dumbasses

[NefCanuck]

This is the logical extension of this law. First you catch the low hanging fruit like the idiots who think they can do 150km/h + on the 400 series highways because they are a good driver (Cheerfully ignoring things that they have no control over like other drivers reactions, road conditions, physics <_<)

The masses cheer...

But then the enforcement of these draconian rules start hitting "everyday" drivers, who in a moment of inattention or stupidity (and what that lady did was stupid as far as I'm concerned, hell I'd say it to her face too) get nailed...

Then the mewling starts :rolleyes:

People just don't get that laws like this, the way they are written nail everybody with the same brush, well guess what geniuses?

You got what you asked for, tougher laws on the roads, suck it up buttercup <_<

NefCanuck

[OAC_Sparky]

NikiterZTS,Sep 10 2009, 09:25 AM Wrote:what some articles mention and others dont is that she was on a ONE LANE ROAD and the truck was already doing 10 over the limit. She had to move into oncoming traffics lane to pass.[right][snapback]294079[/snapback][/right]

Why is that incredulous? I grew up where there were mainly county one-lane roads, I hate being stuck behind trucks; I've had my windshield chipped numerous times from being behind trucks coming from the quarry. If you're on a one lane road, passing in the oncoming traffic lane is perfectly legal -- that's a non-point.

The woman isn't arguing that she wasn't speeding, she's arguing that she wasn't stunting. It's not that she was doing 170kmh in a 100. If you were doing 80kmh, even in your Focus, and you floored it you would be at 130 by the time you passed a tractor-trailer.

[ZX3_2NV]

Great point when your passing an 18 wheeler on a single lane road you don't slowly accelerate by them you throttle it and you can easily go 50km over the limit but hey its the cops judgement to issue the ticket.

[2DXTRM]

Read this article.... Fantino calling it "the Lord's work"... This guy is off his rocker.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009...0/10824011.html

[NikiterZTS]

2DXTRM,Sep 10 2009, 10:50 PM Wrote:Read this article.... Fantino calling it "the Lord's work"... This guy is off his rocker.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009...0/10824011.html
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He makes me sick.....really. :rolleyes:

[Flofocus]

Quote:And just for your edification, on OPP-patrolled highways, speed-related fatalities are down 30% since this law came into effect.

yeah, riiiiiiight.

[darkpuppet]

To be honest, when I'm passing a vehicle, and I have to be in the oncoming lanes, I do it as quickly as possible, and I don't spend my time staring at my speedo... I go as fast as necessary while still feeling in control of the car and in full attention to the road and obstacle I'm passing.

If I got charged with the 50 over law due to that, I'd fight it all the way as well... and if my car was towed, I'd consult a lawyer about suing the authorities for stranding me without due cause.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Passing on a two-lane is WAY different than multi-lane passing and most sensible drivers treat each as a very different scenario. Multi-lane passing: I'll cruise by relatively slowly (compared to the other driver) when noone else is behind me. If I have others tagging along, I might quicken the pass but nothing ridiculous.

Two-lane passing: look, signal, tromp it (how much depends on the road and other factors). Am I 30+ over when passing a semi? You bet! I'd definitely defend myself in court by saying that asking me to pass a slow vehicle at the posted limited on a two-lane is akin to suicide / attempting vehicluar manslaughter.

If you can't control your vehicle at 130, you shouldn't be behind the wheel. I just wish there were more tracks and more ways to teach people the proper methods of handling a vehicle, competently, at 140+ km/h. Then these folk would go out there and realize that they don't need to be doing 130+ in a 100 zone, etc.

[NikiterZTS]

NOS2Go4Me,Sep 14 2009, 08:45 AM Wrote:Passing on a two-lane is WAY different than multi-lane passing and most sensible drivers treat each as a very different scenario. Multi-lane passing: I'll cruise by relatively slowly (compared to the other driver) when noone else is behind me. If I have others tagging along, I might quicken the pass but nothing ridiculous.

Two-lane passing: look, signal, tromp it (how much depends on the road and other factors). Am I 30+ over when passing a semi? You bet! I'd definitely defend myself in court by saying that asking me to pass a slow vehicle at the posted limited on a two-lane is akin to suicide / attempting vehicluar manslaughter.

If you can't control your vehicle at 130, you shouldn't be behind the wheel. I just wish there were more tracks and more ways to teach people the proper methods of handling a vehicle, competently, at 140+ km/h. Then these folk would go out there and realize that they don't need to be doing 130+ in a 100 zone, etc.
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all of us need to go to the track....including you and myself

[ZTWsquared]

NOS2Go4Me,Sep 14 2009, 09:45 AM Wrote:Passing on a two-lane is WAY different than multi-lane passing and most sensible drivers treat each as a very different scenario. Multi-lane passing: I'll cruise by relatively slowly (compared to the other driver) when noone else is behind me. If I have others tagging along, I might quicken the pass but nothing ridiculous.

Two-lane passing: look, signal, tromp it (how much depends on the road and other factors). Am I 30+ over when passing a semi? You bet! I'd definitely defend myself in court by saying that asking me to pass a slow vehicle at the posted limited on a two-lane is akin to suicide / attempting vehicluar manslaughter.

If you can't control your vehicle at 130, you shouldn't be behind the wheel. I just wish there were more tracks and more ways to teach people the proper methods of handling a vehicle, competently, at 140+ km/h. Then these folk would go out there and realize that they don't need to be doing 130+ in a 100 zone, etc.
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I agree about the difference in passing on a two-lane vs. multi lane highway Adam ... but to use your example: in terms of the speed I think 30 over the other guy's speed is reasonable; not necessarily 30 over the limit.

If the other guy's doing the limit or close to it, then technically there is no need to pass at all (from a legal POV) ... so if you do and you go over the limit, there is no "safety" defense that will work for you. And you'll notice that this was not the defense that netted this woman an acquital.

OTH if the guy's only doing say 70 in a 100 zone, passing him at 100 will take virtually no time and no distance at all ... and still within the legal limit. The only time you get into real trouble passing on two-lane roads is when the passee is going fast - then the distance / time required to pass is long.

My bet is that this lady was passing a truck that was already exceeding the speed limit ... and that's why she needed to go 50 over to get past him. Once committed to the pass, I guess I can see the need ... but in terms of making the decision to pass in the first place, I have a hard time condoning this.

I've been saying for over 20 years that our training and licensing standards are way too low (ever since I travelled to Europe and drove extensively there) ... it is the generally s***ty quality of drivers on our roads that justifies the authorities keeping limits a lot lower than what our cars are safely capable of doing - and frankly the rationale for this stunt driving law.

The problem isn't the legislators, or the quality of our cars ... it is the nuts behind the wheel.

[NOS2Go4Me]

Ken,

I guess it boils down to "everyone does 10 over", and 9 times out of 10 that includes me. So, if I'm doing 100 in a 90, and I come up on a truck doing 90, I'll follow (but not happily).

After a while, as noted above, I get sick of rock #988348344 being thrown at my truck. So, at the next legal and sound passing availability, I'll go and pass the truck. Be it two-lane and denoted passing area or a passing lane that "grows" out of the two lane, it doesn't matter.

And again, at this point, the issue becomes a little more complex.

No passing extra lane: Guaranteed I'm doing 110+ on most roads with a clear line-of-sight to pass the truck - if for no other reason than to minimize my exposure. Sure, I'm over the limit at that point during the pass but then prove that the truck was doing 90. What if he was doing 80? 85? Speedo discrepancies, etc, etc.

Passing extra lane: I'm surprisingly lazy here. I'll pass @ 100 if there's noone behind me. If I've accumulated or become part of a "train", I'll accelerate, pass, drop in and then coast to 100 (in a 90). The rest are then free to pass me as well.

Seriously, if you can't perform one of the above... you shouldn't be f***ing driving. Ken, I agree 1000% (yes, I mean one thousand) about most drivers not needing to hold their licenses by driving in the ways that they do. It disgusts me daily to watch people not even comes close to stopping for a red light when turning right... on the pretense that the guys on the opposite side of the intersection who have yet to proceed through have not reached you yet. I've seen cops turn a blind eye to this MANY times.

Same for rolling 4-way stops. Such a dangerous game was never invented before. I've seen lots of guys "coat-tail" directly behind a guy that just went through the 4-way stop - mostly in a straight line. It honestly boils my blood. It causes instant copycat-ism with others travelling in different directions within minutes.

[Focus man. Focus.]

We drove home from Niagara Falls yesterday doing 100KPH in the slow lane. We were only one of a few actually doing the speed limit. It was a nice drive. No stress at all. The amount of fuel I saved over the weekend doing the limit and not doing what everyone else was doing was very noticable.

I would regularly be doing a max of 120kph just trying to keep up, but this weekend was our annivsary and I was in no rush to get anywhere. I taught myself a great lesson. Doing the limit saves a lot of fuel, & everyone behind me in the slow lane can go fack themselves if they want me to go faster. :D

[ZX3_2NV]

I know its a little off topic but Is it illegal to pass more than one car at a time on a 2 way highway? Not recently but back when the Focus was on the road I would easily pass 4-6 Cars at a Time without going more that 30km over the speed limit its all in the acceleration Gotta love boost lol.