[ZX3_2NV]

It would seem that Toyota isn't the only automaker with braking issues on its hybrid vehicles, as Ford has reportedly issued a technical service bulletin (or "Customer Satisfaction Program" in Ford-ese) outlining a software update for its 2010 Fusion Hybrid and Mercury Milan Hybrid sedans. The problem was experienced and reported by Consumer Reports a little while back; here's their explanation of what happened:

As one of our senior engineers slowed for a stop sign at the turnoff to our test facility in East Haddam, Connecticut, the brake pedal went unexpectedly further down than normal but the car barely slowed. He zoomed through the turn, with brake-system warning lights illuminated on the dash. The car more or less coasted to a stop, with what our engineer described as minimal brake feel.

After switching off the engine and then restarting it, everything returned to normal – no warning lights and full braking capability.
That doesn't sound very good, eh? As it turns out, Ford was aware of the potential problem. Sayeth the Blue Oval: "The software threshold to transition from regenerative brakes to conventional brakes can cause the system to transition to conventional brakes unnecessarily." Fortunately, Ford claims that while drivers "may initially perceive the condition as loss of brakes... the vehicle has full braking capability. When this occurs, our system maintains full conventional brakes and full ABS function."

In an effort to resolve the issue in a timely manner, Ford has initiated a repair program and will notify all known owners by mail starting in early February 2010. Anyone who owns a Fusion or Milan Hybrid made on or before October 17, 2009 can see their dealer regarding Ford's "Customer Satisfaction Program 10B13." Click past the break for a video explaining the issue and the official statement from Ford regarding the solution.

Video

[Scorcher000]

No word of a lie a Hybrid Civic at my work did the same thing to me. For like 10 feet I had no pedal. I got out of the car and refused to drive to back call them up they towed it to a dealer ship and found nothing wrong. They later took it out themselves and the same thing happened, slow speed (50km) and press the brake and nothing is there lol. Now they say its from the recharging of the battery but seriously I rather have brakes then a full battery.

Hybrids fail once again.

[NefCanuck]

Now that is an interesting failure, a software glitch causes what amounts to a hardware failure. The switchover from regenerative to conventional braking.

That's always been my fear as the car becomes more computerized than ever.

The automotive BSOD <_<

NefCanuck

[darkpuppet]

I don't get the whole loss of braking thing.. there should always be a mechanical connection to the physical brakes. Maybe if there was some dead travel at the top to use for regenerative braking, but after that, it should engage the hardware to slow the car down.

under power or otherwise, you should always have access to your brakes -- so strange that this problem is even present.

[edit]okay -- from the video, you still have mechanical brakes.. you just have to push further -- which is, personally anyways, what I do when I panic brake - and before I start pumping the brake.[/edit]

[OAC_Sparky]

darkpuppet,Feb 5 2010, 05:42 PM Wrote:I don't get the whole loss of braking thing.. there should always be a mechanical connection to the physical brakes.  Maybe if there was some dead travel at the top to use for regenerative braking, but after that, it should engage the hardware to slow the car down.

under power or otherwise, you should always have access to your brakes -- so strange that this problem is even present.

[edit]okay -- from the video, you still have mechanical brakes.. you just have to push further -- which is, personally anyways, what I do when I panic brake - and before I start pumping the brake.[/edit]
[right][snapback]300826[/snapback][/right]

The software flash only affects the transition between regenerative and mechanical braking.

[darkpuppet]

OAC_Sparky,Feb 6 2010, 03:22 AM Wrote:The software flash only affects the transition between regenerative and mechanical braking.
[right][snapback]300835[/snapback][/right]

Which means that most of the current bruhah over the loss of braking is exaggerating, since the cars don't lose braking.

Which means that if buddy in the consumer reports sailed through an intersection because of this software problem, it's because he's a s**t driver.

[OAC_Sparky]

darkpuppet,Feb 6 2010, 01:41 PM Wrote:Which means that most of the current bruhah over the loss of braking is exaggerating, since the cars don't lose braking.[right][snapback]300847[/snapback][/right]

Well in his defense it's not uncommon that people equate a change in pedal feel as a possible brake failure.

Pesronally I always adjust my seat so that I can put my foot flat on the floor under the brake pedal. That way in case of a brake failure I can be sure I can pump the brakes all the way to the floor. Some people use their toes to brake. So an inch in difference would seem exaggerated.

[NefCanuck]

OAC:

Isn't that what we're all taught in Driver's Ed? (At least I was)

"Adjust your seat so that your right foot is flat on the floor behind the brake pedal" (In my case, my left foot, but you get the point)

NefCanuck

[OAC_Sparky]

NefCanuck,Feb 6 2010, 04:36 PM Wrote:OAC:

Isn't that what we're all taught in Driver's Ed? (At least I was)
[right][snapback]300855[/snapback][/right]

Unfortunately, as obvious to anyone on the road, very few actually retain anything they learned in Driver's Ed.

[meford4u]

OAC_Sparky,Feb 6 2010, 01:58 PM Wrote:

darkpuppet,Feb 6 2010, 01:41 PM Wrote:Which means that most of the current bruhah over the loss of braking is exaggerating, since the cars don't lose braking.[right][snapback]300847[/snapback][/right]

Well in his defense it's not uncommon that people equate a change in pedal feel as a possible brake failure.

Pesronally I always adjust my seat so that I can put my foot flat on the floor under the brake pedal. That way in case of a brake failure I can be sure I can pump the brakes all the way to the floor. Some people use their toes to brake. So an inch in difference would seem exaggerated.
[right][snapback]300848[/snapback][/right]

So you put your seat all the way forward and then sit on the phone book?

[DD1]

meford4u,Feb 7 2010, 02:55 AM Wrote:

OAC_Sparky,Feb 6 2010, 01:58 PM Wrote:

darkpuppet,Feb 6 2010, 01:41 PM Wrote:Which means that most of the current bruhah over the loss of braking is exaggerating, since the cars don't lose braking.[right][snapback]300847[/snapback][/right]

Well in his defense it's not uncommon that people equate a change in pedal feel as a possible brake failure.

Pesronally I always adjust my seat so that I can put my foot flat on the floor under the brake pedal. That way in case of a brake failure I can be sure I can pump the brakes all the way to the floor. Some people use their toes to brake. So an inch in difference would seem exaggerated.
[right][snapback]300848[/snapback][/right]

So you put your seat all the way forward and then sit on the phone book?
[right][snapback]300879[/snapback][/right]

Like Nate :lol:

[NefCanuck]

meford4u,Feb 7 2010, 12:55 AM Wrote:

OAC_Sparky,Feb 6 2010, 01:58 PM Wrote:

darkpuppet,Feb 6 2010, 01:41 PM Wrote:Which means that most of the current bruhah over the loss of braking is exaggerating, since the cars don't lose braking.[right][snapback]300847[/snapback][/right]

Well in his defense it's not uncommon that people equate a change in pedal feel as a possible brake failure.

Pesronally I always adjust my seat so that I can put my foot flat on the floor under the brake pedal. That way in case of a brake failure I can be sure I can pump the brakes all the way to the floor. Some people use their toes to brake. So an inch in difference would seem exaggerated.
[right][snapback]300848[/snapback][/right]

So you put your seat all the way forward and then sit on the phone book?
[right][snapback]300879[/snapback][/right]

Says the man who when he sits in the drivers seat of his car, the car says "Hey! One person per seat!" :P

NefCanuck